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  1. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Yes you did, in posts #64 and #69.
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  2. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Yes you did, in posts #64 and #69.
    Only when no analog connection, like s-video is not available, this could be the case, because most of the time a special cable is needed, or only composite is available, and it still avoids large files, like a Firewire card transfer would give, i used an ADVC100 in the very past, no sync issues, but the large files i did not like…. also Window$ is a serious problem, I'm now a "MAC fanboy" it's stable, found replacements for what i used on Window$ or even better ! sure MAC OS has also drawbacks, but safety, security, and stable operation, are some big advantages, i did not get from Window$..

    like i said, this is a messy thread, which started as a "Vhs capture advice"
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 26th Nov 2022 at 15:51.
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  3. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Does it really matter? Thread is not messy if it wasn't for your confusing posts.
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  4. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    What is ridiculous is your crusade against DV.
    Ridiculous = "crusade". No such crusade exists.

    It is and old tech, like MPEG2, for today standards. It had its excellent advantage time ago, and, although I would never use it, it still has an interest today for people willing to convert analog with a loss of quality but with an easy workflow.
    I mostly agree with this.
    But:
    - "excellent" is arguable, but something like file size was the main benefit, not quality.
    - "easy" isn't true anymore, lots of adapters and fiddling often required in the 2020s (even the 2010s). Again, 1990s tech, EOL'd in 2000s.

    Non sense. MPEG
    Nope. 4:2:2 profiles, 25-50mb/s broadcast depth, etc. MPEG > DV, and vastly so.

    Like DV captures, at least in PAL world.
    Yep, 4:2:0 PAL comparable to DVD color depth. Could be better, could be worse, not unacceptable color compression.

    LSI-based JVC DVD recorder are inferior to a lossles captures (obviously) as we experimented here https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/12740-current-capture-device-3.html, as it is DV. But the first is not by any mean superior to a DV capture.
    Disagree. cNR filters are night-and-day improvement over DV, and the JVC encoder (@ XP or FR180) is nowhere near as blocky as DV on the same source. Run more tests on it. I did exhaustive testing on it in 2005, some were in VH threads, some at dFAQ. Some were lost due to drive fail in 2005, then a site hosting loss in 2006 that nuked the site blog where short articles had been housed. So it was there when we all needed it, when JVC LSI were sold new.
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  5. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    I mostly agree with this.
    That's it. The rest is useless.

    Nope. 4:2:2 profiles, 25-50mb/s broadcast depth, etc. MPEG > DV, and vastly so.
    Yep. MPEG 4:2:2 is not used in DVD and European broadcast (I do not know about USA). Compare apples with apples.

    Disagree. cNR filters are night-and-day improvement over DV, and the JVC encoder (@ XP or FR180) is nowhere near as blocky as DV on the same source.
    Nope. A PAL DV captures with a Canopus device is not worst than a MPEG2 capture with a JVC DVD-Recorder. Others DVD-Recorders are inferior. Redo your test
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  6. A very useful tutorial for noobs like myself.
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  7. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    I’m using windv to capture.
    Try Sclive with scene detection and without it and report back, After using both for a while I found out that Sclive is more sophisticated than WinDV, So it is possible that Sclive handles frame timing better.

    This worked perfectly, thank you. I recaptured the tape with sclive, with scene detection on and I had zero dropped frames. I’ve just done another tape with scene detection on and zero dropped frames again. Its great that you can joins scenes together in there as well, a nice bit of software.
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  8. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    Excellent! On your transferred DV files run AVPS DV Analyzer to validate there are no transfer errors (DV concealment)
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  9. Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    Excellent! On your transferred DV files run AVPS DV Analyzer to validate there are no transfer errors (DV concealment)

    Ok I’ll do that.I’ve actually just captured another tape and sclive reported zero dropped frames, but 2 errors. I cant see anything out of the ordinary watching back through it, so maybe they’re just very minor things?
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  10. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    The error reported by SClive are the same that DV Analyzer will report, where you can find an accurate log file. If you step to the frames with the errors, you'll probably find a pixelization or something like that, some small data may be lost in the tape. Nothing to worry. Eventually you can try to recapture that segment to see if the error disappears or stay constant.
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  11. The dv capturing is going really well. Still no dropped frames using sclive, an error here and there but not noticeable to my untrained eye so I’m not going to worry about it.

    I suppose the next step would be to try and deinterlace them. Ive looked into avisynth but I think that would be way to advanced for me to get my head around.


    Maybe handbrake would be more noob friendly? Although the output container seems to be mp4 or mkv.

    Wouldn't it be better to output the videos as avi?

    Are there any deinterlacing programs that are beginner friendly where I can keep the videos as avi? Or am i missing somthing here and the deinterlaced videos have to get put into to a different output container?
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  12. Member godai's Avatar
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    im not expert but im been long here and check those threads

    i have some good vcrs, and es10? yea you need one for tbc thing i guess

    so far best its using those and one sony camera with firewire , it gest best quality so far.
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  13. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by godai View Post
    im not expert but im been long here and check those threads

    i have some good vcrs, and es10? yea you need one for tbc thing i guess

    so far best its using those and one sony camera with firewire , it gest best quality so far.
    He is transferring DV not capturing, Did you even bother to read some posts besides just the title of the thread which is misleading?
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  14. Attn Mods.

    Apologies for the confusing nature of this thread. It turned into a dv capture discussion when I realised that I had mistaken mini dv tapes for hi8. I probably should have started a thread in the correct part of the forum as I can see how this is confusing for people who just read the first few posts. Please feel free to lock thread if I’ve violated forum rules.
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  15. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    The dv capturing is going really well. Still no dropped frames using sclive, an error here and there but not noticeable to my untrained eye so I’m not going to worry about it.

    I suppose the next step would be to try and deinterlace them. Ive looked into avisynth but I think that would be way to advanced for me to get my head around.


    Maybe handbrake would be more noob friendly? Although the output container seems to be mp4 or mkv.

    Wouldn't it be better to output the videos as avi?

    Are there any deinterlacing programs that are beginner friendly where I can keep the videos as avi? Or am i missing somthing here and the deinterlaced videos have to get put into to a different output container?
    You might try Shutter Encoder easy GUI and uses ffmpeg at it's core, both for Windows and MAC available.

    avi mkv or MP4 are the "containers" it just depends where you play the files, a hardware player like a BluRay or DVD player that will play the files, from usb, sd-card, or connected storage (NAS) the file system, the way it's formated, will accept large files, or not.
    It depends how or where you want to play those files, you should try to learn some of the basics for this, so you can figure it out, giving as much info as possible helps, so it wont come down to guess work.
    VLC on a computer will play allmost anything, but is not the best player available, you have to do some fine tuning, you also can leave it interlaced if you only play it on your computer, and set VLC to de-interlace the footage, it all depends on your "wishes"
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 29th Nov 2022 at 12:08.
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  16. Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    The dv capturing is going really well. Still no dropped frames using sclive, an error here and there but not noticeable to my untrained eye so I’m not going to worry about it.

    I suppose the next step would be to try and deinterlace them. Ive looked into avisynth but I think that would be way to advanced for me to get my head around.


    Maybe handbrake would be more noob friendly? Although the output container seems to be mp4 or mkv.

    Wouldn't it be better to output the videos as avi?

    Are there any deinterlacing programs that are beginner friendly where I can keep the videos as avi? Or am i missing somthing here and the deinterlaced videos have to get put into to a different output container?
    You might try Shutter Encoder easy GUI and uses ffmpeg at it's core, both for Windows and MAC available.

    avi mkv or MP4 are the "containers" it just depends where you play the files, a hardware player like a BluRay or DVD player that will play the files, from usb, sd-card, or connected storage (NAS) the file system, the way it's formated, will accept large files, or not.
    It depends how or where you want to play those files, you should try to learn some of the basics for this, so you can figure it out, giving as much info as possible helps, so it wont come down to guess work.
    VLC on a computer will play allmost anything, but is not the best player available, you have to do some fine tuning, you also can leave it interlaced if you only play it on your computer, and set VLC to de-interlace the footage, it all depends on your "wishes"
    Ok thanks Eric, I’ll give shutter encoder a try. The files will probably just be played from computers for now, its just that I read that avi is the preferred format due to compatibility and quality.
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  17. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Like said, avi is just the container, it can contain any kind of codec, lossy or lossless, but MP4 is most common, MKV can also hold subtitles (when needed) in it's container,(mkv is often used with FullHD or 4K video, not with standard resolution) while with MP4 you have to place a .srt extension file with same filename in the same folder/map.(when needed)
    You should aquire some basic knowledge about this, different codecs can be used, the bitrate can make the quality better or worse,( a balance should be found , for best result) this is valid for both audio and video codecs,
    a codec can be in a variable bit rate or constant bit rate, variable bit rate will optimize the compression where possible without loosing visible/audible quality, more encoding passes will enhance the quality, it depends on the "nature" of the footage, are there fast movements in the video, or how "dynamic" is the audio: lots of high or low tones/frequencies.
    While learning, you can step up in perfecting your results, due to the knowledge you collected, so, step by step, you should not want too much in a short time, you learn on the go, and better understand when something does go wrong.
    Later, you can try some of the more advanced tools, if you think you need those. Shutter Encoder is easy in it's use, MediaInfo is a tool where you can "read" the specs of a file: like resolution settings, which codecs are used, all sorts of info, which i think is handy to know at some times.
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 29th Nov 2022 at 13:52.
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    AVI is not generally used for normal playing, and my TV won't touch them. The only box I have that plays DV-AVIs is the Apple TV. AVI is really suited only as the capture format. It is also overly large, MB-wise.

    H264 video codec and AAC audio in a MP4 container is what you want (although a recent post suggested H265 is the way to go if you have the hardware). H264 is very common and won't be going anywhere any time soon. You'll get that from various conversion programs such Handbrake, AVIDemux (which has a video preview window for further trimming), and, by the sounds of it, Shutter Encoder (I've never used that). A reasonable bit rate of 3000kbps or a CRF of 16 will get you started converting from DV. The other advantage of MP4 is the file sizes are much lower for virtually the same quality. Good SD footage such as yours in MP4 is about 3gb per hour, whereas DV-AVI is 12gb per hour.

    Re deinterlacing, no doubt I will set off yet another raging VideoHelp argument. Since most uses of a video these days are on non-CRT screens, I prefer to deinterlace. For computer playback, VLC player has an auto mode for interlacing but it is not very good; one has to set a manual mode. Also, I believe Youtube prefers de-interlaced video. I would therefore suggest that you do deinterlace your DV when converting it to MP4.

    Most will agree that AVISynth/QTGMC is very good, but as you have found, it is not easy to set up and time-consuming to use when dealing with many files. Many of the GUIs (eg AVIDemux, Handbrake) have de-interlacing functions. I'm not in a position to suggest one of those yet (paradoxically, I use QTGMC and yes, it is a pain). I've started a new topic asking for suggestions regarding non-AVISynth deinterlacing to see what people suggest.

    Re your videos, you can trim clips and then join them up in Scenalzyer. This is great, say, for a birthday video; join up the party clips in one, then save as a DV-AVI, then take that combined file into a MP4 converter.
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    Re AVIDemux, it is probably the simplest to use but will not open Type 1 DV-AVI files, only Type 2. The default in Scenalyzer is type 2. Type 1s can be converted pretty easily and quickly to Type 2s using DVDate.
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  20. Ok thanks, mp4 definitely makes sense then if it takes up quarter of the space with little quality loss. I’ve had type 2 selected in scenalyzer, and have been using the editing section to seperate and join certain scenes. I really like it and its easy to use as well.
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    Good to hear! You're hooked.
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  22. Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    I've started a new topic asking for suggestions regarding non-AVISynth deinterlacing to see what people suggest.
    Alwyn, can you post here a link to that thread?
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  23. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    mkv is often used with FullHD or 4K video, not with standard resolution
    Not true.
    Excellent wrapper/container, for any resolution, mostly used for H.265 and H.265.

    Shutter Encoder is easy in it's use
    Hybrid is still better for many things, but this is a good tool in the kit.
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  24. Member
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    Originally Posted by OldTech
    Alwyn, can you post here a link to that thread?
    Here you go:

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/407771-Non-AVISynth-Deinterlacers
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  25. Thanks.
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  26. Update.

    I've finished converting my minidv tapes now and I'm really happy with the final results. I had a play around with deinterlacing them in handbrake but they didnt seem to look right so I deinterlaced them in virtualdub. I think it did a much better job, they look really good (to my untrained eye, anyway). I then converted them to mp4 in handbrake but have kept the original avi files also.



    Now I'm back to converting the box of vhs tapes that I have and its not going nearly so well, the capture looks awful to be honest.

    Elgato video capture cards were half price just before christmas so I purchased one and am using that. My vcr is just a two head Hitachi and I havent been using a tbc. I know that I'm not going to get great capture with this equipment but I wanted to have a play around and get the hang of using virtualdub before splashing out and upgrading everything.

    Like I said, I know that the capture wasnt going to be perfect but I didnt expect it to be this bad, the cheap hdmi dongle did a better job in obs.

    Ive taken some screen shots and was wondering if you guys could have a look?

    There is what looks like patterened lines going across the screen, just wondering if you could let me know what is causing this?
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    Click image for larger version

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  27. One more screenshot, also I forgot say that there has been no dropped frames or audio syncing problems so far.
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by Leanoric; 19th Jan 2023 at 12:19.
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  28. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    It's hard to tell from a screen grab, Looks like dot crawl or interference, This is typical when using low end VCR via non-coaxial composite cable, Try a different cable and move the VCR to an area where you don't have signal interference.
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  29. Agree, looks definitely like dotcrawl AND possibly interference. If your VCR has an S-video output use it instead of Composite or SCART to connect it to the capture dongle. If not, use a recommended Panasonic DVD recorder in passthrough which will provide better luma/chroma separation (comb filter). There are plenty of threads and posts about this subject.
    Last edited by Sharc; 19th Jan 2023 at 14:05.
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