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  1. Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    Well to make matters even worse, Iíve just looked at all the family camcorder tapes Iíve got, and they're mini dv and not hi8.
    Hilarious. This is much better, though. Capture via Firewire losslessly. I assume you already have the camcorder you made the recordings with. That is, you know for sure it is DV, not HDV.
    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    My pc is cheap and prebuilt so I dont think I could use a firewire card, not that Id even know how to fit and install one.
    Search for "installing expansion card in a PC". No harder than replacing an air filter in a car and actually easier than replacing an oil filter. No need to connect any cables, just find an empty PCI slot and stick the card in (don't forget to remove the expansion slot cover panel on the backside of the case before installing the card).
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  2. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    +1

    If your tapes are miniDV you just have to transfer the data from the tape to the PC via firewire. No capture required, but just a copy of what is on tape without any degradation.
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  3. Yep, tapes are minidv but I really dont think that I can add an expansion card to this pc. It was was the cheapest one in the store and wasnt designed to be upgraded.


    Edit: Im not sure why picture is upside down
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  4. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Be aware that direct transfer with Firewire to your computer, will give large files, CPU and storage wise this should be no problem i guess.
    Now knowing you're working with MiniDV footage, a VCR or DVD-recorder with DV input seems a better option, a DVD recorder or VHS combo recorder can also come with a HDD where you can edit your footage if needed. (a recorder combo should have a optical drive that can burn, not just play)
    The direct transfer by Firewire to your computer does have the advantage that you have an exact copy/file from what's on the MiniDV tape.
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  5. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    Yep, tapes are minidv but I really dont think that I can add an expansion card to this pc. It was was the cheapest one in the store and wasnt designed to be upgraded.


    Edit: Im not sure why picture is upside down
    You can only tell by checking the motherboard, the outside only shows a backplate you normally can change depending on the mother board specs.
    or if the motherboard has a mini PCI Express slot:
    https://www.startech.com/en-nl/cards-adapters/mpex1394b3
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 20th Nov 2022 at 14:42.
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  6. Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    Now knowing you're working with MiniDV footage, a VCR or DVD-recorder with DV input seems a better option, a DVD recorder or VHS combo recorder can also come with a HDD where you can edit your footage if needed. (a recorder combo should have a optical drive that can burn, not just play)
    Yes I think your right, a dvd recorder with dv input is probably the better option for me. Id rather get the footage onto computer but I think Iíd end up messing something up trying to fit a firewire card into my pc.

    There was a Liteon recorder on ebay the other day I was watching, in the box, never used. Just checked and it did have a dv input port, it would have been perfect, even had the LSI chipset which is preferable for tape to dvd if Iím not mistaken. But I bought the es10 instead and now its been sold LOL.

    Oh well, Iíll have to watch out for a recorder on ebay, I just had a look at Lordsmurfs lsi chipset thread and the es20 has it, do you think I should get one of them or can you recommend something else/better? Iíd rather get something thats readily available on ebay, not too rare or hard to find.
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  7. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    The noise you don't see on a CRT or low quality capture device.
    It's not video noise, The noise in signal timing, They are not made to construct a healthy frame straight from the VCR, That includes the famous non SDI Intensity Shuttle as well.
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  8. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    Yes I think your right, a dvd recorder with dv input is probably the better option for me. Id rather get the footage onto computer but I think Iíd end up messing something up trying to fit a firewire card into my pc.

    There was a Liteon recorder on ebay the other day I was watching, in the box, never used. Just checked and it did have a dv input port, it would have been perfect, even had the LSI chipset which is preferable for tape to dvd if Iím not mistaken. But I bought the es10 instead and now its been sold LOL.

    Oh well, Iíll have to watch out for a recorder on ebay, I just had a look at Lordsmurfs lsi chipset thread and the es20 has it, do you think I should get one of them or can you recommend something else/better? Iíd rather get something thats readily available on ebay, not too rare or hard to find.
    Keep in mind that converting DV to mpeg-2 will degrade the original quality especially if the original footage was shot by a low end camcorder that struggles with low light condition, The added mpeg-2 compression artifacts by DVD recorders even in high quality mode for low light scenes will drive most people nuts. Plus for that money you will drop on a DVD recorder it buys you a firewire card and to pay for a computer service to install a firewire card into your computer, Though it is not something that you would need a computer service to do for you but I've seen people have windshield washer blades put on by a mechanic, so that's not for me to judge.
    Last edited by dellsam34; 20th Nov 2022 at 16:24.
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  9. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    A dvd recorder with DV input should be easy to find, you can use it for it's s-video/composite output or record to disc, 2nd generation copy of mpeg2 can still be fine, you should try something,
    but you should not spent thousands of dollars/euros on it.
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 21st Nov 2022 at 05:57.
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  10. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    The result of the real time MPEG2 encoding of any DVD-recorder I have seen is atrocious (on the highest quality setting!) compared to a software encoding; especially if paired with some slight but effective AviSynth filtering. It's a night and day difference. Only use it if the ease of use outweights the quality drop for you.
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  11. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Wow, there is a second generation of MPEG-2 DVD standard encoding? I would like to know more about it.
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  12. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Don't use BlackMagic analog to SDI converters, they are not made for noisy consumer video sources.
    The noise you don't see on a CRT or low quality capture device.
    That makes zero sense. Signal noise, not whatever you're referring to.

    Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    2nd generation of mpeg2 can still be fine
    That's technobabble nonsense.

    Originally Posted by Skiller View Post
    The result of the real time MPEG2 encoding of any DVD-recorder I have seen is atrocious (on the highest quality setting!) compared to a software encoding;
    LSI-based JVC was the only exception, from videotape sources.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank Discs ē Best TBCs ē Best VCRs for capture ē Restore VHS
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  13. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    LSI-based JVC was the only exception, from videotape sources.
    Yes. We had a chance to compare with a lossless Hauppauge USB-Live 2 capture recently, and, although not as good, the JVC was not too bad:
    https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/12740-current-capture-device-3.html#post87198
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  14. Right guys, Iíve opened up my mini pc and there is one slot at the bottom unoccupied.

    It is for a much bigger card than the mini pci one. Is this slot designed for something else or would the mini pci card work in there?

    Iím also not sure about the power plug that is attached to the card, would that need to be plugged in because I cant see anywhere for it to go?

    My camcorder has a 4 pin socket, the mini pci card has two 9 pin and one 6 pin, I presume a 4 pin to 6 or 9 pin cable would work fine?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/STARTECH-COM-MPEX1394B3-Express-FireWire-Adapter/dp/B004NNYJ34

    Edit: Iíve just notice the area to the side of the fan has a slot/slots for something?
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    Last edited by Leanoric; 21st Nov 2022 at 08:30.
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  15. Iíve checked the specs of the pc and it has 1 PCI Express x16 Slot, I presume that means 16 pin, so obviously the 52 pin card wont fit unfortunately.
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  16. Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    Iíve checked the specs of the pc and it has 1 PCI Express x16 Slot, I presume that means 16 pin, so obviously the 52 pin card wont fit unfortunately.
    x16 means you have 16 lanes of traffic on that slot, but that doesn't really matter for your purpose - as long as you have a free PCIe slot you are good to go!
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  17. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    Iíve checked the specs of the pc and it has 1 PCI Express x16 Slot, I presume that means 16 pin, so obviously the 52 pin card wont fit unfortunately.
    Yes, so no need for the mini version i mentioned, because i thought it had not a regulair sized PCI Express slot,
    and yes, Firewire comes in a 800 or 400 version, but a suitable cable or adapter plug will set that right, could be already in the box when you buy such a card.
    you can break out a metal strip at the bottom of the computer for the PCI card, is my guess, can't see that clearly from the picture.
    When buying such a Firewire PCI card, check for it, if it has the correct drivers for your operating system.
    Still i think it will be to much work for this computer to transfer uncompressed DV this way, also because of the large files you have to deal with.
    Expanding the RAM can't also hurt Ö only one memory slot is populated ?
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 21st Nov 2022 at 10:55.
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  18. Member
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    I got the best result via VHS+DVD HDD Recorder
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  19. Originally Posted by Xhumeka View Post
    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    Iíve checked the specs of the pc and it has 1 PCI Express x16 Slot, I presume that means 16 pin, so obviously the 52 pin card wont fit unfortunately.
    x16 means you have 16 lanes of traffic on that slot, but that doesn't really matter for your purpose - as long as you have a free PCIe slot you are good to go!
    You would need a pci-e one rather than the mini-pcie one you linked for that slot though, e.g this type. You will need a 4 to 6 pin firewire adapter as well if it isn't bundled or if you don't have one already. I don't know if there are some specific models of card that are preferable when it comes to driver support, some others may know what works best though.
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  20. Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    Iíve checked the specs of the pc and it has 1 PCI Express x16 Slot, I presume that means 16 pin, so obviously the 52 pin card wont fit unfortunately.
    You've already presumed that you had Hi8 tapes (you do not) and that your PC could not accept expansion cards (it can). Search for "PCI Express x16 expansion card compatibility". Wikipedia has a long article on the topic. Pretty much any PCIe card you buy will work, some of them have fewer lanes, they will work in a wider slot. Moreover, some cards with more lanes will work in narrow slot. Very small possibility of error, as the standard has been around for almost 20 years. Do not confuse it with PCI-X, which is an older incompatible standard. If you don't trust the Wikipedia, I bet the user's manual from your computer has a section about compatible expansion cards.

    The slot beside the CPU is for another RAM module. You can expand RAM if you want, but you don't have to. 8 GB is plenty for the job.

    Capturing DV over Firewire is the best you can do to preserve the quality of your recordings, everything else is a downgrade.

    Deinterlacing for Youtube will be another can of worms
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  21. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    Right guys, Iíve opened up my mini pc and there is one slot at the bottom unoccupied.

    It is for a much bigger card than the mini pci one. Is this slot designed for something else or would the mini pci card work in there?

    Iím also not sure about the power plug that is attached to the card, would that need to be plugged in because I cant see anywhere for it to go?

    My camcorder has a 4 pin socket, the mini pci card has two 9 pin and one 6 pin, I presume a 4 pin to 6 or 9 pin cable would work fine?
    You need a firewire card that works with legacy drivers, a card with Texas Instrument chip or similar is recommended here in the forum, The Syba SY-PEX30016 Firewire card is a good alternative but little harder to find. The cable you would need is this.
    After you get the card install the windows legacy driver, follow these instructions.
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  22. For what it's worth, I purchased this card last month and it works with Windows 10 plug-and-play, I didn't need to download drivers separately, I just plugged it in, windows detected it, and it worked. Also came with the correct cable that I needed, all for under $20 Canadian.

    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08HSY2WYD/
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  23. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    If he can find that in the UK it's worth a try.
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  24. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Xhumeka View Post
    For what it's worth, I purchased this card last month and it works with Windows 10 plug-and-play, I didn't need to download drivers separately, I just plugged it in, windows detected it, and it worked. Also came with the correct cable that I needed, all for under $20 Canadian.

    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08HSY2WYD/
    If it works for Windows 10 it should also be good enough for Windows 11,
    Yadif should be a good option for de-interlacing, if you don't go on the path of recording to DVD/MPEG2 files, MPEG2 is not that bad as some people say you should judge for your self.
    if you watch the end result only with VLC you can set VLC to de-interlace it at default for playback, so you don't have to encode it into de-interlaced, your choice, Shutter Encoder is a nice tool which has an easy to use GUI.
    LosslessCut can cut lossless MPEG2 filesÖ https://mifi.no/losslesscut/
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 21st Nov 2022 at 14:03.
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  25. I cant find anything on the Syba card working with win 11, I did come across somebody that couldnt get it working with it so Im not too sure about that one.

    Amazon uk have the card that Xhumeka suggested for £12 but no info on win 11 compatibility, doesn't appear to have ti chipset either, so again not sure about it

    Ive found this one though, it has reviews from people saying that it works straight away with win 11. Also doesn't appear to have ti chipset though, does it look ok? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Padarsey-Firewire-Expansion-Controller-Connection/dp/B07PHJKS...A2DQ3XBZNPO0PZ

    Something that worries me is that Ive seen a few people say that they havent been able to get their sony dv camera to work with firewire cards, my cameras a sony. But I suppose Ill have to cross that bridge at the time.

    Thanks again for taking the time to help guys.
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  26. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Newer Microsoft OS's such as 10 and 11 need to set privacy setting to permit camera and video input devices in security settings otherwise you won't be able to get it working. This is probably why you see a lot of complaints about them online.
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  27. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Newer Microsoft OS's such as 10 and 11 need to set privacy setting to permit camera and video input devices in security settings otherwise you won't be able to get it working. This is probably why you see a lot of complaints about them online.
    Correct, i thought i did not need to mention that, because Leanoric is already using Windows 11, the link for the card Leanoric gave seems to be allright, although i see no mention for the OS system versionÖ. (also don't know if a certain company pre-installed windows on this pc, and has a driver wizzard active)
    Also i don't understand why it says: Attention: Don't Support hot-plugging. Before installation, Turn off the power and then plug in the power cord.
    when one normally installs a card this is standard procedure, but that's your kind of info you get on such sites, Ali is number one at that
    I think you better buy such a card local, that should be possible, also good for easy exchange if something is wrong with it.
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 22nd Nov 2022 at 03:55.
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  28. Posted same message twice, please delete
    Last edited by Leanoric; 22nd Nov 2022 at 05:08.
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  29. Just found a very interesting article here for anyone interested https://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/Firewire-1.htm

    He has tested out over a dozen firewire cards and does not recommend cards with the TI chipset for capturing from from older camcorders, apparently the cheaper cards with VIA chipsets seem to work better. He also gives instruction on how to get them working with windows 10/11.



    [QUOTE=Eric-jan;2673197]
    Attention: Don't Support hot-plugging. Before installation, Turn off the power and then plug in the power cord.

    So I should unplug power cord from pc, then install card, and the plug in power cord after the card has been installed?
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  30. Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    Just found a very interesting article here for anyone interested https://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/Firewire-1.htm
    Compiling responses from this forum, from your link, from Youtube and from elsewhere, all one can say for sure, is:
    * Firewire cards with TI chip can work
    * Firewire cards with VIA chip can work
    * Firewire to Thunderbolt adapter cable can work
    One cannot claim that something does not work unless there is a specific known issue that prevents this thing to work, like, ever. Regarding Firewire cards with VIA chip, nothing wrong with them per se. Firewire has been around for more than a quarter century and has been licked out long ago.

    Originally Posted by Leanoric View Post
    So I should unplug power cord from pc, then install card, and the plug in power cord after the card has been installed?
    As a rule, anything you do inside a PC (or inside a VCR, or washing machine, or a car) should be done with power turned off. Stuff that can be hot-plugged is made available by means of external connectors, but even then there are reports of frying Firewire port on a camcorder by connecting Firewire cable without turning the camcorder off. So, it is safer to make a connection first, then turn the camcorder on.
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