vhs tape cleaner (not for the vcr)

[workshow]

Hello,

Is it useful to clean the tape of a vhs, can it improve the quality of the capture?
I came across this old reference: "geneva video cleaner".
Was there the same type of tape cleaner but for hi8? betacam? vhs-c?

Have any of you ever tried to make a tape cleaner using an old VCR?

Thanks

[lordsmurf]

Do not use these on tapes "just because". Why? It may strip oxide. Then the tape is ruined.
Only use "cleaners" on severe grunge.

Quality of capture likely will not be affected, aside from dropouts (DOC in VCR takes care of it, in most cases).

[Barrythecrab]

I have a Geneva and love it, though I now use pec pads to re-line the cleaning rollers.
The only other “cleaning” method I have tried is a spin through a mold-dedicated vcr.
I have captured some horrible horrid nasty moldy tapes, never ruined one…yet.
YouTube has a few videos of people who have jerry-rigged VCRs to clean tapes but they use q-tips with some sort of fluid such as IPA or hydrogen peroxide.

[jwillis84]

I've seen about three 'grades' of cleaners.

Kinyo made rewinders back in the 80's and 90's that were more like tape "dusters" with very gentle non-abrasive wipes on rollers you could slide into and out of place. They generally stepped the ratio of the gears down and ran the tape at half-speed and packed the tape on the reels very uniform. These were almost exclusively in the 2-Way FF/RR rewinders.

The later 1-Way rewinders generally do not have wipers.. or "dusters".

Kinyo's chief competitor was Solodex .. at least in the US.. and the quality was not as good. They also tended to fall apart quicker or stop working. They did have a couple units that did the "dusting" but I think most people ignored the feature.

After Blockbuster came out with the heavy duty hi-speed sideways 1-Way rewinders.. none of the competition had dusters or "cleaners"

Geneva was an importer that brought a lot of stuff over and seemed to try to do some quality control on what they sold. The PF-710 (??) was a "wet" cleaner which is probably a lot harsher and closer to what people think about when they think "tape cleaner". - I would think it would be your last resort, and beneficial only if your dealing with moldy disintegrating tapes your thinking of inserting into a sacrificial VCR anyway. - but at that point its 'hail mary pass' anyway.. you might be better off sending the tape to a place that cleans tapes on an RTI Tape check machine.. it might be more productive.

The last grade would be an RTI Tape check machine.. but its not worth thinking about ever owning one, first they cost thousands, and good luck servicing them or finding the rare consumable supplies to keep them going.

Thats the long and short of all the options I've ever seen.

As for baking tapes, or otherwise liquid "wet" treatments.. i don't think most people would seriously consider doing that. But..

There are some Youtube videos from a guy in Peru or someplace in South America that strung out VHS tape like his laundry and just did some crazy stuff trying to de-mold his tapes. That's a bit extreme.

For the most part.. using a Kinyo with a duster running at low speed.. makes a little sense.. once in a while.. if you've had some problems.. but I don't know.. rewinders with dusters are mighty rare to find these days.

I'm still in awe though that the Kinyo deck style 2-Ways still work.

PS.

I almost forgot about Japan, land of the Unobtanium.. They made some exquisite rewinders and cleaners.. way back in the early 1980's that were more like tape cutters.. but did rewind and fast forward, and had the most elaborate "duster" rollers.. but were banned from export or import.. mostly because I think they were packed new with some sort of mystical magical liquid that could be applied to the cleaning roller.. so in that way they were "wet".. I've only seem pictures of them. But I do have a couple made in Taiwan that were made for the International market that looked somewhat similar.. just didn't rely on any magical elixir to restore tapes..

The last non-exportable/importable FF/RR winder would be the LPL HR-200V ZERO-Pro .. which I do have .. its built like a tank.. and positively "glides" when it opens and closes. It was a combo wiper and tape eraser.. it could do either.

I do not have an extensive collection.. i just realized one day my Dad left me a lot of these.. and went through them and never got rid of them. .. its kind of amazing and sad the things we've left behind.. and forgotten about.

[jwillis84]

"Thinking"

About the benefits or risks of using a "wet" cleaner.. I think it depends a whole lot on the vapour pressure, or ambient "humidty" of where you use a "wet" cleaner.

The fluid has to evaporate relatively "fast" while the tape is being pulled through the "wet" cleaning roller.. or it will end up on the backside of the tape that has already passed in front of it and onto the take up reel.. and that will promote "Sticking" or "Mold growth" if it doesn't find a way off the tape in short order.

I know a lot of people might run out of the special "wet" fluid and look for something like Isopropyl alcohol as a replacement, but that's often diluted with plain distilled water.. and once the alcohol evaporates.. it will leave the water clinging to the tape.. under humid conditions.. it will remain "soaked".

If I recall correctly Geneva sold a refill kit for their head cleaner and tape cleaner products that had an especially low vapour pressure.. that evaporated extra quickly.. i think I recall it had "freon" or something ridiculous like that in it.. which I recall because I thought that only went into air conditoners.

Today the best you could do would be 100% Isopropyl alcohol and would have to special order that.. or try some kind of old fashioned "tuner cleaner" or something from a compressed air can.

Again.

I think this is a situation where the technologies time has passed.. and you just can't get the right consumables to keep properly using the device.

A plain wiper might be replaced by something like the felt from a lens cleaning kit.. designed to "not scratch" a lens.. but geez.. thats a big maybe, if.. its just reaching.

Your probably better off not even trying.


To give you an idea about "humidty".

I'm from Central Texas, our Humidity is normally over 55% on some of the Hottest days of the year.. that is very high.

Humans are much more comfortable at 30-40% which almost never occurs here.

We have massive de-humidifiers in nearly every office building to control mold and particulate growth.

We never see "static" electricity in the winter from anything.. its always damp and clamy unless you have a de-humidifier.

But in parts of the Central US up near Wisconson or other places.. you can get a dry climate in the Winter.. but not on the Costal regions.

Humidity is roughly the carry capacity of air.. when its dry, it has room for wet molecules to evaporate and "fit in" between the air molecules; when its humid.. all those spaces are "filled up" and nothing evaporates.. the "sponge" is full.

A fast moving strip of tape in a high speed rewinder doens't have a lot of time for "wet" solvent to ooze onto the tape.. or get wiped across it, dissolve sediment.. and then get wiped back up and any remainder.. evaporate away .. before its slammed back into the back the the tape in front of it and packed back onto the reel of video tape. It should be done at a slower speed, or with some sensor that knows what the humidity is, and compensates for it by lowering the speed. An RTI Tape check machine can do that.. but a simple rewinder with a reservoir and highly volatile fluid.. I'd have my doubts.. and if you can't get the correct fresh fluid anymore.. yeah.. maybe not a good idea.

As for hi8, 8mm, and beta

I know Kinyo made 2-Way winders for all of them.

I have some of the Kinyo 2-Way beta winders

I do not know if Kinyo built any "dust" rollers into any of the smaller hi8, 8mm or beta winders.. the beta winders I have do not have "dusters". But they are very old.. and all this information pre-dates the Internet by several years.. so its mostly something you "had to be there" or "remember" to have any hope of sorting it out.

[workshow]

Thank you very much for your answers, I have some tapes with mold, without paying attention, I broke a vhs player with one of these tapes.
For these very damaged tapes, these cleaners could do the trick, but it's hard to find anyway, I'm in Europe, I find them on ebay in the US, but not here.

I will use this broken vhs player, insert the tapes with mold, and use microfiber cloths to clean the tapes, that should do the trick.

[jwillis84]

Well.. if you wanted to "build" a tape cleaner from an old VCR.

Be aware that in the last days of the VCR "high speed races" some brands and models did crazy things to gain an advantage.

Mitsubishi for example has a Super Fast Ultra speed tape rewinder mode.

Basically "Except for SONY" the brands did not release their own "rewinders" they attempted to build that feature into their cheaper VCRs designed for heavy duty Video rental and returns.

So some consumer VCRs partially unload the tape from the drum, engage a "hyper gear" and fast forward or fast rewind at blinding speeds.

If you can find one of these and you know its unloading the tape.. you could perhaps find a way of placing your own "wiper/duster" pad against the tape while its rewinding.

This isn't a "do it your self instructables" job.. mere speculation on my part.

Its rather pie-in-the-sky thinking.

But its something.. for a moldy.. sacrificial VCR project.

[workshow]

The first goal is to open the tape, clean it inside, then insert it in the VCR and remove the mold inside the tape with the rewind speed, if I can then, by hand, pass a microfiber cloth on the tape, when it is really attacked by time, it seems a solution to test.

[johns0]

Tape cleaners are all crappy,the best way to clean video equipment is by hand,cleaners will never fix issues with capstans that need a good scrubbing,the only use i can think of is is taking of the oxides that came from another tape that's easy to clean off.

[jwillis84]

Another thought 'experiment' would be some sort of 'tape cleaner' in a cassette itself.

If your cleaning out/up mold anyways.. your probably thinking of opening the cassette to wipe down the reels and insides of the cassette.

A true anti-fungal-cide is also probably in order.

Actually forget that.. move the reels to a different cassette on purpose.

But still it seems a special cassette could be designed with a set of wipers.. maybe.. one of those tape head cleaner cassettes could be adapted for the purpose.

Then insert in a high speed "FF/RR 2-way winder" and run it back and forth.

Then you don't have to deal with sacrificing a VCR and you have your special cassette body for disinfecting and scrubbing (?)

Its complicated thinking here.. opening a cassette, removing the reels and transfering to a cleaning cassette.. then to a new/renewed playing cassette.

But we are talking about doing a "good" job aren't we?

Anything less risks spreading spores and just raking the mud everywhere... or spreading it around inside a VCR your gonna kill anyway

The whole idea of [not] taking the reels out when dealing with mold.. strikes me as.. not realistic

[workshow]

Yes, good idea,
A cassette rewinder could do the trick, just glue a strip of microfiber cloth on the edge of the cassette,

[jwillis84]

This is one we had like when my Grandmother was still alive



It has separate buttons for Eject, FF, RR and Clean - expensive compared to the later models when up/down decided a direction and clean was the last expensive button to be removed.



This is the bottom, the roller is kind of batten of soft cotton barely stiff enough to hold its shape pressed against the tape. Its only engaged when the [clean] button is pressed. If its engaged, when the [eject] button is pressed the roller is moved back out of the way before the cassette basket rises up to release the tape.



You can see the clean roller hiding back in the corner of the cassette holder, it stays out of the way and the winder runs full speed when its not [engaged].

But as soon as it swings into place the whole assembly downshifts and the tape winds much slower.. probably to prevent friction or static electricity from building up.

What I remember when I was a kid, was being fascinated by the cleaner function.. but all folks cared about back then was how fast you could make it rewind.. all the other features just made it more expensive and no one saw a good reason for them.

This is a Kinyo UV-220c for VHS tape.

They made others, for both Beta and VHS.

Dad used Beta.. that was his baby.. but the rest of the household used mostly VHS.. when Beta died.. he kept everything and just silently put it away.. and years later I have them.

Kinyo came out of China.. old China.. so they were trying to make things extra special to appeal to new markets.

But they kind of got things wrong with the winders.. until they stripped them down and took out a lot of features.

Eventually nearly "all" 2-Way winders were Kinyo.. but they let companies like Best Buy, Builders Square and Home Depot put their names on them.. but they were the expensive luxury edition Kinyo's.

China wised up and started taking things out.. Solodex was eating their lunch with simple winders with no cleaners.. but even they were "overkill" they kept putting in 1980's electric lights and "sensors".. things that don't work today.. but they were cheap.. but had "wow" factor.. just not much functionality. Kinyo started making "wow" products that looked cool but didn't do anything and were cheap.. and then Blockbuster revolutionized the market with "be kind rewind" and all people cared about was "how fast does it rewind".

The "autowinder" was born.. and they started making them in the shape of sports cars.. they looked like toys in the living room.. it was ridiculous.

Kinyo outlived Blockbuster.. they eventually ended up making I think the last 2-Way winder back under their own name for BH Photo until about 2006? maybe 2008 until they pulled the plug on that.

[jwillis84]

Ok.. I "think" this is what you were talking about.. I got the model number wrong.

Its been sold over the years under different names like "Videomate" and others.. Geneva did the best job on the user manual that is included though.

Typesetting with a computer wasn't a thing back then so most of it would look cringe today.



Its a plastic box, and rattles quite a bit when its running. This model at least has both a wall adapter and/or battery compartment power supplies.. so its kind of portable. I don't recall they were always that way though.. but I think this was an "end of the line" model.

I have seem them on eBay.. they have a mythical quality about them.. cures all woes.. ect..



You either lay the box on its back and insert the tape, or with the box standing up; insert the tape on its spine with its trapdoor flap facing upwards and then wrap the teeth of the thing around the tape path before closing the door.



It has three "teeth"

The two on top, and one on bottom.

The Right hand "tooth" roller has a reservoir on top where you can squirt liquid and that roller is the "wet-wiper".

The Left hand "tooth" roller has no reservoir on top and is the dry wiper to dry the tape as it passes.

The Bottom "tooth" is mobile.. I guess its a Capstan ? I'm not an audio deck nerd.. so I'm not sure what the proper term is.. anyway.. it applies gentle pressure against the tape once engaged to make sure it comes into contact with both of the upper "teeth".



Notice it only "wet-wipes" one side, and the capstan only dry wipes it.. so it might not be the best for disinfecting a tape that had mold.

Both sides of the tape will come back into contact with each other when wound on a reel in the cassette.

I am confused "a little" though about the separate FF and REW "holes" for fluid.

The Capstan "tooth?" is articulate and could in theory move back and forth when the tape winding process switches direction.. I've never watched it.



The buttons are earnest.. but not quite as well laid out as for a Kinyo winder.



Its a pretty clever idea.. and for its time.. innovative.. but it obviously depends on you knowing what your doing and monitoring the humidity.. and being desperate enough to try using one.

That plastic front swing door.. is obviously to protect you in case something goes hideously wrong.

I won't lie.. its an appealing "idea"

And I've seen youtube videos from South America where they have used one for mold.

I think I saw one from Alabama where a guy had similar problems with mold.

Its just awfully dependent on that "magic fluid" and it evaporating just the right way. But if your in a moldy environment to start with.. I'd guess your humidity is already pretty high.. so your bailing water out of a sinking ship.

And you don't always know how that mold is going to react.. it might shrink away and go sit in a corner.. or fight back.. and strew tape all over your room.. should it escape the cassette and the safety of that plastic "blast" door.

When it runs.. it sounds like a prop from a Weird Al Yakovich .. movie.. or Electric Dreams.

To me.. being a kid from the 80's myself.. it "feels" like it should have cost about $200 usd back in 1984 or so.. with inflation and collectors pricing.. I'd guess $500 or $600 might be fair? If its in good condition.. but as a tool?

Its not a Milwaukee specialty tool.

It is/was a noble effort.. but I kind of think.. if it were successful there would have been competitors.. and Kinyo probably would have made one, or something like it.

True the "Vinegar Syndrome" of Mold didn't set in for a while.. but I just don't know.

Not looking to sell.. I got a lot of old stuff.. especially after my deep dive on DVD recorders a few years ago..

[workshow]

Thanks for the memories, it's very helpful
I'll keep an eye on ebay, test how it can help with mold, it's true that my diy solution will be less effective anyway