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    I have a collection of Walt Disney Treasures DVDs — some of which are pretty rare — that I want to rip to my hard drive as ISO files that include menus and everything. These discs are pretty important to me. I'm primarily focused on preserving the disc as best and accurately as possible (for potentially burning them later again) with the exception of removing DRM, but I would also like to play them on my PC using VLC. To these ends, I tried four different methods:

    1. AnyDVD's Rip to Image function. These ISOs don't play very well with VLC; skipping some clips results in the disc "starting over" at the into clips rather then returning to the last menu, and some menu's are wholly inaccessible. The ISO contents and the contents of the original disc are equal in size and hashes when AnyDVD is running, but not when AnyDVD is not running (which makes sense, I guess, since AnyDVD removed all sorts of protections).
    2. ImgBurn's Read function ("Create image file from disc") + AnyDVD. Creates exactly the same ISO as method 1; confirmed with MD5 hashes.
    3. DVDFab's Clone/Burn function ("Copy DVD-Video Data only" checked and "Copy original IFO files" unchecked). Playback is slightly better; everything is accessible, but not without its hitches. Clips sometimes play twice when trying to skip them, The disc's contents as seen in the drive in Windows Explorer aren't changed after loading the disc with DVDFab, as is the case with AnyDVD. However, the cloned ISO is equal in size but not in hash, so I suppose DVDFab does the protection removal during cloning?
    4. DVDFab's Full Disc function (only "Copy DVD-Video Data (VIDEO_TS)" checked). This plays much betterwith VLC; all menu's, transitions and scene skipping work as expected, with only occasional exceptions. However, these ISO's cannot be burned by ImgBurn; I get "Optimal L1 Data Zone Start LBA: None Found! (VTS_07) This image has not been mastered correctly for burning onto a double layer (OTP Track Path) disc. None of the cells meet the 'DVD-Video specification' criteria for a potential layer break position. Do you want to continue anyway?" I searched around and this seems to have something to do with a layer break. For this reason, I unchecked "Remove layer break position" in DVDFab's "Common Settings" -> "DVD" -> "DVD Protection". Following advice, I do get it to burn if I extract the VIDEO_TS folder from the ISO, rebuild that into another ISO, and then burn that. However, having to do this makes me unsure whether something got broken or lost in the process. The ISO also differs quite a bit from the DVD contents in terms of bytes and number of files. Can that become a problem?

    I'm leaning towards method 4, but only if that method is "futureproof", i.e. is guaranteed to burn to disc correctly and doesn't differ from the original disc too much. As for DVDFab settings, in "Common Settings" -> "DVD" -> "DVD Protection", I have everything checked except "Remove layer break position" and "Remove UOPs (User Operation Prohibitions)".

    What do you think? Is there an optimal way of backing up DVD discs? Any suggestions or opinions on how to go about this are more than welcome!

    PS. I considered putting this in Newbie / General discussions, because I don't know too much about the specific technicalities of DVDs.
    Last edited by EmielBoss; 9th Sep 2022 at 10:10.
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    Originally Posted by EmielBoss View Post
    I have a collection of Walt Disney Treasures DVDs — some of which are pretty rare — that I want to rip to my hard drive as ISO files that include menus and everything. These discs are pretty important to me. I'm primarily focused on preserving the disc as best and accurately as possible (for potentially burning them later again) with the exception of removing DRM, but I would also like to play them on my PC using VLC. To these ends, I tried four different methods:

    1. AnyDVD's Rip to Image function. These ISOs don't play very well with VLC; skipping some clips results in the disc "starting over" at the into clips rather then returning to the last menu, and some menu's are wholly inaccessible. The ISO contents and the contents of the original disc are equal in size and hashes when AnyDVD is running, but not when AnyDVD is not running (which makes sense, I guess, since AnyDVD removed all sorts of protections).
    2. ImgBurn's Read function ("Create image file from disc") + AnyDVD. Creates exactly the same ISO as method 1; confirmed with MD5 hashes.
    3. DVDFab's Clone/Burn function ("Copy DVD-Video Data only" checked and "Copy original IFO files" unchecked). Playback is slightly better; everything is accessible, but not without its hitches. Clips sometimes play twice when trying to skip them, The disc's contents as seen in the drive in Windows Explorer aren't changed after loading the disc with DVDFab, as is the case with AnyDVD. However, the cloned ISO is equal in size but not in hash, so I suppose DVDFab does the protection removal during cloning?
    4. DVDFab's Full Disc function (only "Copy DVD-Video Data (VIDEO_TS)" checked). This plays much betterwith VLC; all menu's, transitions and scene skipping work as expected, with only occasional exceptions. However, these ISO's cannot be burned by ImgBurn; I get "Optimal L1 Data Zone Start LBA: None Found! (VTS_07) This image has not been mastered correctly for burning onto a double layer (OTP Track Path) disc. None of the cells meet the 'DVD-Video specification' criteria for a potential layer break position. Do you want to continue anyway?" I searched around and this seems to have something to do with a layer break. For this reason, I unchecked "Remove layer break position" in DVDFab's "Common Settings" -> "DVD" -> "DVD Protection". Following advice, I do get it to burn if I extract the VIDEO_TS folder from the ISO, rebuild that into another ISO, and then burn that. However, having to do this makes me unsure whether something got broken or lost in the process. The ISO also differs quite a bit from the DVD contents in terms of bytes and number of files. Can that become a problem?

    I'm leaning towards method 4, but only if that method is "futureproof", i.e. is guaranteed to burn to disc correctly and doesn't differ from the original disc too much. As for DVDFab settings, in "Common Settings" -> "DVD" -> "DVD Protection", I have everything checked except "Remove layer break position and "Remove UOPs (User Operation Prohibitions)".

    What do you think? Is there an optimal way of backing up DVD discs? Any suggestions or opinions on how to go about this are more than welcome!

    PS. I considered putting this in Newbie / General discussions, because I don't know too much about the specific technicalities of DVDs.
    for dvdfab - full disc = is the entire dvd including any special features minus the copy protection,
    the disc can be compressed to fit on a 4.7 GB disc.

    main movie is just the movie only no special features are included.

    clone mode is an exact copy of the original disc it cannot be compressed and must use a DVD-9 dual layer disc.

    and dvdfab can be setup to use imgburn.
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    Most commercial movies are on double-layer discs. As you surmised, when burning an ISO with Imgburn, if the ISO is missing the layer break or the layer break is badly positioned, or the disc only has a single layer, then ImgBurn will display an error message.

    I suggest the following if you want an exact copy of the entire DVD:
    Copy the DVD contents as files and folders with AnyDVD. If that plays OK, use Imgburn to create an ISO without layer breaks. If that plays OK, save the ISO for playback with VLC. If the time comes when you need to burn the DVD ISO to disc (use a Verbatim DVD+R DL} mount the ISO, then build a new ISO using Imgburn with a layer break positioned in the best position that ImgBurn offers you.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 8th Sep 2022 at 22:05. Reason: clarity
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
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    Thanks for the responses! I've since discovered two things:

    1) The "Optimal L1 Data Zone Start LBA: None Found! (VTS_07) This image has not been mastered correctly..." error didn't appear when I tried a different blank disc (but the same ISO file). So I assume this error can appear due to something faulty with the disc rather than the ISO?
    2) Disabling PathPlayer in DVDFab resolved all the playback issues of method 3, making this the superior method. I have no idea why it is enabled by default, but it broke things for me.

    Originally Posted by october262 View Post
    for dvdfab - full disc = is the entire dvd including any special features minus the copy protection,
    ...
    clone mode is an exact copy of the original disc it cannot be compressed and must use a DVD-9 dual layer disc.
    I burned an ISO made using DVDFab's Clone function and it played fine on my PlayStation 3, while the original disc doesn't due to the incompatible region code. This does mean that Clone mode also removes copy protection? If so, what is then still the difference with Full Disc mode?

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    As you surmised, when burning an ISO with Imgburn, if the ISO is missing the layer break or the layer break is badly positioned, or the disc only has a single layer, then ImgBurn will display an error message.
    But I unchecked "Remove layer break position" in DVDFab's "Common Settings" -> "DVD" -> "DVD Protection". Is the layer break information normally inside the ISO file? If so, where did it go if I didn't want it to leave? :')

    EDIT: Wait, now I see there are INI files for each ISO containing the layer break position. But, how can I make ImgBurn use these files? It doesn't open them.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I suggest the following if you want an exact copy of the entire DVD:
    Copy the DVD contents as files and folders with AnyDVD. If that plays OK...
    That already doesn't play okay, unfortunately. This already has the issues of inaccessible menu's and disc restarts.

    To future readers with the same use case, I recommend DVDFab's Clone/Burn mode with PathPlayer disabled. It messed up my ISOs at least.
    Last edited by EmielBoss; 9th Sep 2022 at 10:50. Reason: I found out once more that I am stupid
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    Originally Posted by EmielBoss View Post
    Thanks for the responses! I've since discovered two things:

    1) The "Optimal L1 Data Zone Start LBA: None Found! (VTS_07) This image has not been mastered correctly..." error didn't appear when I tried a different blank disc (but the same ISO file). So I assume this error can appear due to something faulty with the disc rather than the ISO?
    2) Disabling PathPlayer in DVDFab resolved all the playback issues of method 3, making this the superior method. I have no idea why it is enabled by default, but it broke things for me.
    What kind of DVD discs were you using? Were both of them DVD+R DL media.

    Originally Posted by EmielBoss View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    As you surmised, when burning an ISO with Imgburn, if the ISO is missing the layer break or the layer break is badly positioned, or the disc only has a single layer, then ImgBurn will display an error message.
    But I unchecked "Remove layer break position" in DVDFab's "Common Settings" -> "DVD" -> "DVD Protection". Is the layer break information normally inside the ISO file? If so, where did it go if I didn't want it to leave? :')

    EDIT: Wait, now I see there are INI files for each ISO containing the layer break position. But, how can I make ImgBurn use these files? It doesn't open them.
    I don't know how ImgBurn stores layer break information. However, based on what I could find in the Imgburn forum with a search engine, Imgburn can't use layer breaks information produced by other software for burning

    Originally Posted by EmielBoss View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I suggest the following if you want an exact copy of the entire DVD:
    Copy the DVD contents as files and folders with AnyDVD. If that plays OK...
    That already doesn't play okay, unfortunately. This already has the issues of inaccessible menu's and disc restarts.

    To future readers with the same use case, I recommend DVDFab's Clone/Burn mode with PathPlayer disabled. It messed up my ISOs at least.
    I don't know what else to suggest. I have not ripped many commercial DVDs. I mostly author my own DVDs.

    I do know that Disney is supposed to have used some unusual copy protection methods that confuse some rippers. Although I too often use VLC, VLC isn't perfect. It is reverse engineered, not created from the official DVD spec,
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
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  6. ½ way to Rigel 7 cornemuse's Avatar
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    I have used WinDVD for years! It has allus worked for me. Not free tho.

    https://windvd.en.softonic.com/?ex=DINS-276.2

    They seem to have a 'trial' version, give it a try.

    Dont know what version I have. I bought it 15-20 years ago.

    What I like most is it will show CC's (plus regular subtitles if the disk has them) ← (I have an old comp connected via hdmi to my avr/tv & can view the CC's)

    edit: after posting, I looked & found:

    https://www.videohelp.com/software/WinDVD

    edit again!

    I use 'Redfox Anydvd' to rip whole disks. "Always to *.iso's". I use DVDShrink, it still works. I tried going to MKV files & had nothing but grief there. MKV is a newer 'container', but, that doesn't automatically make it better!!

    -corne-
    Last edited by cornemuse; 9th Sep 2022 at 14:33. Reason: feng shui
    Yes, no, maybe, I don't know, Can you repeat the question?
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  7. In all the years I’ve been backing up DVDs, I don’t think I ever tried playing them “as DVDs” via something like VLC. What I usually do is use the AnyDVD feature to “rip the disk to harddisk,” or use MakeMKV backup, or CloneDVD2. DVD Decrypter was always a good fallback – I still use it very occasionally. Anyway, after backing up a disc, I use MakeMKV to create MKV files that I put on my Plex servers.
    Your post got me to thinking, so I checked out a rip of a Wild Wild West DVD on a hard drive and used VLC to open the VIDEO_TS IFO file. Sure enough, it came up to the menu and episodes can be played by clicking on them. I also tried this on a Man From UNCLE DVD that has numerous bonuses and that can be played that way as well.
    Typically, what I do for playback is to take the individual MKV files (from MakeMKV) and run these thru VEAI upscaling software. That way the episodes look a lot better on a 70” 4K TV. For your situation, you would (I think) have to find some way to connect a computer to your TV in order to play the DVD file via VLC. I do know that you can put a VLC app on a Fire TV stick but I don’t know how or if you could play the DVD that way. I prefer Plex for my servers because it maintains “where you are” in a program across different platforms that have Plex on them.
    As far as burning backed-up DVDs, I always used Nero. It has a DVD-Video template option which automatically sets up the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS files. You can just copy the files on the hard drive VIDEO_TS files right into Nero, drag and drop. Easy-peasy. There is also a "burn image" option in Nero if you have an .iso file. Frankly, I think using burnt DVDs is the better choice in your situation…they’ll play a lot easier on a Blu-Ray or DVD player.
    84Lion
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    Originally Posted by 84lion View Post
    In all the years I’ve been backing up DVDs, I don’t think I ever tried playing them “as DVDs” via something like VLC. What I usually do is use the AnyDVD feature to “rip the disk to harddisk,” or use MakeMKV backup, or CloneDVD2. DVD Decrypter was always a good fallback – I still use it very occasionally. Anyway, after backing up a disc, I use MakeMKV to create MKV files that I put on my Plex servers.
    Your post got me to thinking, so I checked out a rip of a Wild Wild West DVD on a hard drive and used VLC to open the VIDEO_TS IFO file. Sure enough, it came up to the menu and episodes can be played by clicking on them. I also tried this on a Man From UNCLE DVD that has numerous bonuses and that can be played that way as well.
    Typically, what I do for playback is to take the individual MKV files (from MakeMKV) and run these thru VEAI upscaling software. That way the episodes look a lot better on a 70” 4K TV. For your situation, you would (I think) have to find some way to connect a computer to your TV in order to play the DVD file via VLC. I do know that you can put a VLC app on a Fire TV stick but I don’t know how or if you could play the DVD that way. I prefer Plex for my servers because it maintains “where you are” in a program across different platforms that have Plex on them.
    As far as burning backed-up DVDs, I always used Nero. It has a DVD-Video template option which automatically sets up the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS files. You can just copy the files on the hard drive VIDEO_TS files right into Nero, drag and drop. Easy-peasy. There is also a "burn image" option in Nero if you have an .iso file. Frankly, I think using burnt DVDs is the better choice in your situation…they’ll play a lot easier on a Blu-Ray or DVD player.
    Thanks! I either connect my laptop to a TV via HDMI and play the ISO with VLC, or I burn it to a DVD and play it with my PS3.
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    Originally Posted by EmielBoss View Post
    Thanks for the responses! I've since discovered two things:

    1) The "Optimal L1 Data Zone Start LBA: None Found! (VTS_07) This image has not been mastered correctly..." error didn't appear when I tried a different blank disc (but the same ISO file). So I assume this error can appear due to something faulty with the disc rather than the ISO?
    2) Disabling PathPlayer in DVDFab resolved all the playback issues of method 3, making this the superior method. I have no idea why it is enabled by default, but it broke things for me.

    Originally Posted by october262 View Post
    for dvdfab - full disc = is the entire dvd including any special features minus the copy protection,
    ...
    clone mode is an exact copy of the original disc it cannot be compressed and must use a DVD-9 dual layer disc.
    I burned an ISO made using DVDFab's Clone function and it played fine on my PlayStation 3, while the original disc doesn't due to the incompatible region code. This does mean that Clone mode also removes copy protection? If so, what is then still the difference with Full Disc mode?

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    As you surmised, when burning an ISO with Imgburn, if the ISO is missing the layer break or the layer break is badly positioned, or the disc only has a single layer, then ImgBurn will display an error message.
    But I unchecked "Remove layer break position" in DVDFab's "Common Settings" -> "DVD" -> "DVD Protection". Is the layer break information normally inside the ISO file? If so, where did it go if I didn't want it to leave? :')

    EDIT: Wait, now I see there are INI files for each ISO containing the layer break position. But, how can I make ImgBurn use these files? It doesn't open them.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I suggest the following if you want an exact copy of the entire DVD:
    Copy the DVD contents as files and folders with AnyDVD. If that plays OK...
    That already doesn't play okay, unfortunately. This already has the issues of inaccessible menu's and disc restarts.

    To future readers with the same use case, I recommend DVDFab's Clone/Burn mode with PathPlayer disabled. It messed up my ISOs at least.
    yes, clone mode does remove the copy protection as for the answer to the latter part of your question
    see this thread - https://forum.dvdfab.cn/forum/software-support-english/dvdfab-dvd-copy/28948-clone-vs-full-disc
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    What kind of DVD discs were you using? Were both of them DVD+R DL media.
    Yes, they were DVD+R DL from Philips.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Although I too often use VLC, VLC isn't perfect. It is reverse engineered, not created from the official DVD spec,
    Huh, that's interesting! Why not use the DVD spec. Or is that proprietary/not compatible with open source software? Either way, I think VLC does a fine job most of the time.
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    Originally Posted by october262 View Post
    yes, clone mode does remove the copy protection as for the answer to the latter part of your question
    see this thread - https://forum.dvdfab.cn/forum/software-support-english/dvdfab-dvd-copy/28948-clone-vs-full-disc
    Okay, so the only difference is that Full Disc mode can compress the VOB files if asked to? However, I'm not asking it to compress anything, yet the ISO files still differ in size. There must be something else it does differently?
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    Originally Posted by EmielBoss View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Although I too often use VLC, VLC isn't perfect. It is reverse engineered, not created from the official DVD spec,
    Huh, that's interesting! Why not use the DVD spec. Or is that proprietary/not compatible with open source software? Either way, I think VLC does a fine job most of the time.
    As you surmised, it is proprietary. Obtaining documentation and technology licenses is expensive and subject to a licensing agreement that would prohibit some features that VLC includes. For example, VLC allows users to record the original video and audio from the DVD as the DVD is playing or do screenshots. Licensed DVD player software is not permitted to do that.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
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