Help - All Video Editors/converters/trimmers get aspect ratio wrong!

[wp62]

Help - All Video Editors get aspect ratio wrong!

Situation:-

- I have AVI files imported from a DV Camcorder
- I want to trim and cut them losslessly
- The camcorder the footage was recorded on allowed the aspect ratio of the video to be switched from 4:3 to wide format. So in any one tape (thus AVI file) there is a mixture of aspect ratios

Problem:-

- While VLC plays the AVI file perfectly, handling the aspect ratio changes, any Video editor/trimmer I have tried does not - Including Lossless cut, Vidcoder, VSDC
- I end up either with stretched or squashed footage.

I usually use Avidemux to trim videos but these AVI files are type 1 which Avidemux cannot read, so I even tried ffmeg to convert from type 1 to type 2 AVI but ffmeg also messed up the aspect ratio in the conversion.
- The syntax I used was ffmpeg -i "SourceDrive:\FullPathTo\SourceFile.avi" -c copy "TargetDrive:\FullPathTo\OutputFile.avi"

So – does anyone know of a trim app that will preserve the correct aspect ratios?


Thanks

[ProWo]

Use clever FFmpeg-GUI.
Load your avi, click main, click multiplex, select 4:3 as DAR, click multiplex. Done.
Only remux, no reencode, so fast and no quality loss.


[Attachment 66622 - Click to enlarge]

[DB83]

If I read you correctly you have transfered all the footage from one tape in to one .avi file. Little wonder that editors, that typically just read the first header, get the wrong result.

Better to transfer the tape again and ensure that each time the camera stops and restarts you get a new file. WinDV is a good program for transfer - just set the discontinuity threshold to a low number (but not zero)


Or you can convert your Type 1 files to Type 2 using the software listed on this page:


https://www.videohelp.com/software/sections/dv


And then see if your editors are more friendly.

[aedipuss]

all the files on the tape are 720x576 no matter if the camera was in 4:3 or 16/9. the camera if put in widescreen used wider (stretched horizontal), par (pixel aspect ratio), you have to manually import the footage as widescreen in most editors. 1280x576.

[Alwyn]

1280x576

1024x576 = 16:9.

[DB83]

1280/1024 is just the display. (and like the above I do not think that 1280 is relevant here) 576 / 9 * 16 = 1024

Any header should just show the SAR (storage aspect ratio = 720*576 despite the actual display) AND the DAR which could either be 4:3 or 16:9.

[wp62]

Use clever FFmpeg-GUI.
Load your avi, click main, click multiplex, select 4:3 as DAR, click multiplex. Done.
Only remux, no reencode, so fast and no quality loss.


[Attachment 66622 - Click to enlarge]

Thanks - tried this, same result - if the AVI starts off 4:3, then on the converted file when it gets to a widescreen bit, it stays 4:3 so the image is squashed.

[Alwyn]

I do not think that 1280 is relevant here) 576 / 9 * 16 = 1024

That is why I pointed it out.

[wp62]

1280/1024 is just the display. (and like the above I do not think that 1280 is relevant here) 576 / 9 * 16 = 1024

Any header should just show the SAR (storage aspect ratio = 720*576 despite the actual display) AND the DAR which could either be 4:3 or 16:9.

... so I need an editor - or trimmer - that constantly checks the aspect ratio of the file and adjust accordingly, as VLC does on playing the file.

There are too many changes from 4:3 to wide and back on any given tape to load each section individually.

I'm trying Canopus DV to convert type 2 to 1 as I write. Be interesting to see if this copes with the aspect ratio changes... watch this space!

[jagabo]

I've never used it myself but maybe ScenalyzerLive will automatically split each shot into a separate file with the correct aspect ratio.

[wp62]

SOLVED!

1/ I used DVDate to convert the Type 1 AVI File to Type 2. Unlike when ffmpeg did the conversion, DVDate DOES automatically preserve the changing aspect ratios

2/ Now that the AVI file is Type 2, Avidemux will trim the file - and it also preserves the aspect ration changes.

[DB83]

Ok. So I am pleased that you found a software to convert (some thanks would not have gone amiss - unless by some miracle you did that part without assistance)

But having done that, how are you going to prepare a delivery format that preserves both 4:3 and 16:9 in the same stream WITHOUT stretched/squashed footage.

[wp62]

Ok. So I am pleased that you found a software to convert (some thanks would not have gone amiss - unless by some miracle you did that part without assistance)

But having done that, how are you going to prepare a delivery format that preserves both 4:3 and 16:9 in the same stream WITHOUT stretched/squashed footage.

Indeed many thanks to you and others for taking the time to help with this!

In terms of your question - are you meaning at the end of it all, what program will play correctly without squashing/stretching? Clearly VLC does this perfectly but I haven't tried to do something like create a DVD.

What IS still not answered is - if I wanted to do video editing proper rather than just trim, which Video Editor could handle the different aspect ratios?
I probably won't edit as such so I'm not going to pursue that one atm.

[DB83]

Well it is not answered since you, if I read correctly, did not ask that specific question even tho I aluded to it in my initial response.

Basic editors like avidemux can not handle this. More complex editors such as Vegas could. Yet you would still have to identify each change in aspect ratio, split the footage accordingly and add hard borders to the 4:3 footage so that all now becomes 16:9.


Those in the know might be able to suggest avisynth scripts to do the discovery and add the relevant borders.


If you are not going to share the footage ie prepare a delivery format rather that the 13 gb per hour from the original source then the question is moot. But tv's can not play back DV and neither can a dvd playback mixed footage without the type of editing I describe above.


But were you to appreciate what I previously wrote re individual transfers you can use simple editors such as avidemux to alter the 4:3 footage to 16:9. You would not even have to join the clips but prepare a dvd that plays them as one or as individual segments - DVDStyler can do this without breaking in to a sweat.

[wp62]

Well it is not answered since you, if I read correctly, did not ask that specific question even tho I aluded to it in my initial response.

Basic editors like avidemux can not handle this. More complex editors such as Vegas could. Yet you would still have to identify each change in aspect ratio, split the footage accordingly and add hard borders to the 4:3 footage so that all now becomes 16:9.


Those in the know might be able to suggest avisynth scripts to do the discovery and add the relevant borders.


If you are not going to share the footage ie prepare a delivery format rather that the 13 gb per hour from the original source then the question is moot. But tv's can not play back DV and neither can a dvd playback mixed footage without the type of editing I describe above.


But were you to appreciate what I previously wrote re individual transfers you can use simple editors such as avidemux to alter the 4:3 footage to 16:9. You would not even have to join the clips but prepare a dvd that plays them as one or as individual segments - DVDStyler can do this without breaking in to a sweat.

Yes absolutely I didn't ask the question re video editing, I mentioned it only to be clear to anyone reading the thread. (as I'm only interested in trimming - but also because VSCD editor didn't handle it correctly which suggests others may not either.)

It's clear that I didn't understand what you said earlier about Avidemux and changing to 16:9. Do you mean that if I change to 16:9 then the output file will be such that the 4:3 parts will still appear as 4:3 in a DVD?

[DB83]

No. But then I have never dealt with a video that has both native 4:3 and native 16:9 in the same stream. I simply react on how I anticipate editors to work. But 'native' is the important word here.

Allow me to attempt to explain this. You load a mixed video in to avidemux. It reads the header from the first sequence. Assume that this is native 4:3. Now it might well export any 16:9 footage as 4:3 but then you get what is commonly known as non-anamorphic where the editor adds letterboxing borders top and bottom in a 4:3 frame. Surely you would not desire that.


Similarily, it finds 16:9 footage in the first sequence and then proceeds to export the 4:3 footage with pillarboxing borders left and right. Now that is a more acceptable solution for many and achieves the same result as if you edited the 4:3 footage and manually added the borders.


Yet I suspect that avidemux will not do that and stretch/shrink the video accordingly. But by all means try it and see what happens. If I had such a stream I would certainly see what would happpen. What editors can not do is export mixed footage as native 4:3 and 16:9.


As for a dvd, you can not mix 4:3 and 16:9 footage in the same vts. A disk can be created with both but not play together.

[wp62]

OK!
If Avidemux is given the AVI that is type 2 (containing mixed 4:3 and 16:9) I have found that

- Avidemux will happily open it and trim it (without me setting anything to do with aspect ratio)
- VLC will play the resulting output file (MKV in my case) with the correct different aspect ratios, switching back and forth as per the original footage.

However, digging deeper, not all is completely OK as different media players have mixed results

eg the Win 10 supplied "Films & TV" app plays the file correctly but with no sound
Media Player Classic has sound but not correct aspect ratios
AX-Lite Video player as per Media Player Classic

Possible a different setting on Avidemux will cure the sound issue - but as the file plays on VLC I'm happy.

If I had known what a pain using different aspect ratios would cause I would have never touched the setting when recording!

[Alwyn]

Basic editors like avidemux can not handle this. More complex editors such as Vegas could. Yet you would still have to identify each change in aspect ratio, split the footage accordingly and add hard borders to the 4:3 footage so that all now becomes 16:9.

Incorrect. Both the Magix editors automatically add "hard borders" to 4:3 footage in a 16:9 project. They also will automatically scene-split on timecodes. Then, with a couple of clicks, you can re-ratio each clip to 4:3 or 16:9. I'd be very surprised if even the free NLEs couldn't also do this.

As for a dvd, you can not mix 4:3 and 16:9 footage in the same vts. A disk can be created with both but not play together.

Of course you can, if you encode the mixed clips into an MPG first.

[dellsam34]

If you are going to make a single video out of those 16:9 and 4:3 to be compatible with the majority of playback devices you will have to edit all 4:3 segments and add black pillars or frosty edges on the sides for a square pixel ratio, then add them back to the other 16:9 segments and make your final video, It's the only safe way.

[wp62]

If you are going to make a single video out of those 16:9 and 4:3 to be compatible with the majority of playback devices you will have to edit all 4:3 segments and add black pillars or frosty edges on the sides for a square pixel ratio, then add them back to the other 16:9 segments and make your final video, It's the only safe way.

OUCH!

The law of unintended consequences is certainly at work here!