How to set HCEnc for Interlaced VHS capture (or better encoder for VHS)

[Tek03]

Hi everyone!

I have to produce DVD-Compliant mpg files to import into DVD Authoring software and then burn onto DVD.
The source is VHS and S-VHS material captured trough a TerraTec Cinergy 400 and stored in Lagarith Lossless Codec.

I was searching for FREE MPEG2 codecs and many people advised HCenc as the best one on this forum. Others pointed out to AVStoDVD software for who wouldn't want to mess aroung much with the videos.

I then downloaded AVStoDVD and ran some comparisons among "Smart selection" (so FFMPEG) and "HCEnc", and the result was always better with the ffmpeg choice. The test involved PSNR and SSIM (couldn't enable VMAF), along with a visual inspection. Also, if compared with DVDFlick, the latter was always better to parity of bitrate.

On some other threads it was said that HCEnc requires a deep knowledge in order to be used correctly, but I couldn't find any thorough guide specifically for interlaced VHS content encoding (especially for when it comes to matrices), so I'm asking you if you have any advice, or if you suggest me any other (free) codec for my purpose*.



p.s. I'd like to avoid blocking as much as possible, and I generally set bitrates pretty high, since space isn't an impediment (1h/DVD would be no problem).
*procoder 1.5 is impossible to find and I don't have the budget for MainConcept!

Thanks in advance.

[davexnet]

Are you talking about specifically interlaced content looking better with FFMPEG?
The best thing to do for advice would be to post the complete AVStoDVD log

[Skiller]

*procoder 1.5 is impossible to find and I don't have the budget for MainConcept!

Too bad, Procoder 1.5 is the best encoder for this kind of source by a margin.


I would suggest these settings in HCenc as a good starting point for interlaced VHS:

*BITRATE          9269
*MAXBITRATE       9600
*PROFILE          best
*ASPECT           4:3
*AUTOGOP          15
*DEADZONE         1 0
*DC_PREC          10
*INTERLACED
*TFF
*BIAS             30
*INTRAVLC         2
*MATRIX           manono3
*LUMGAIN          1

Assuming stereo audio of 256 kBit/s, the average video bitrate to fill a DVD+R (4482.25 MiB) with 65 minutes of video would have to be 9269 kBit/s. This needs good quality media such as MCC 004 and a good burner (no laptop burner).

[cholla]

You might give DVDRebuilder a try.
The free version can be altered to make settings in HCEnc.
I don't have the paid version but I understand that it is much easier to make the settings in.

[_Al_]

there is some old windows batch lines I used pulled out from scripts that encode mpeg2 or burn DVD right away from avi files, not sure if it is going to work on windows 10, DV avi helper.zip

if %ar%==4:3 if %h%==480 if %w%==720 (set DV_found=yes)
if %ar%==4:3 if %h%==576 if %w%==720 (set DV_found=yes)
if %ar%==16:9 if %h%==480 if %w%==720 (set DV_found=yes)
if %ar%==16:9 if %h%==576 if %w%==720 (set DV_found=yes)
set DAR=%ar%
field_order=-INTERLACED -BFF
SET pass_one_variables=%field_order% -AUTOGOP 15 -CQ_MAXBITRATE 3 -AQ 2 -MAXBITRATE 8500 -aspectratio %DAR%
SET pass_two_variables=-2pass %field_order% -AUTOGOP 15 -MAXBITRATE 8500 -B %average% -aspectratio %DAR%
if %pass_two% ==no   %Hcenc% -i "%temp_adr%_v.avs" -o "%temp_adr%.m2v" %pass_one_variables% -logfile "%temp_adr%_hc.encoder.log" 
if %pass_two% ==yes  %Hcenc% -i "%temp_adr%_v.avs" -o "%temp_adr%.m2v" %pass_two_variables% -logfile "%temp_adr%_hc.encoder.log"

HcEnc ini file looks like this, (but command line overrides some variables if stated in cmd line), or use different as suggested:

*MAXBITRATE       8500
*PROFILE          best
*CQ_MAXBITRATE    5.000
*DC_PREC          10
*PREVIEW
*INTRAVLC         2
*MATRIX           mpeg
*PRIORITY         normal
*WAIT             0

there is some structure with subroutines: BATCH make DVD.BAT which uses make DVD.BAT (makes avisynth script and manages everything). For making elementary streams there is m2v and AC3.BAT (makes avisynth script and manages everything) and those script use subroutines in tools/subroutines directory: burn_ISO.BAT, calculate_mpeg_bitrate.BAT (1pass CQ if enough room or getting an average bitrate and 2pass), create_dolby_audio.BAT, create_ISO.BAT, create_m2v_video.BAT (using HCEnc), create_VIDEO_TS.BAT, direct_burn.BAT. settings.BAT sets variables what you want to do.

[Tek03]

[QUOTE=Skiller;2665640]

I would suggest these settings in HCenc as a good starting point for interlaced VHS:

*BITRATE          9269
*MAXBITRATE       9600
*PROFILE          best
*ASPECT           4:3
*AUTOGOP          15
*DEADZONE         1 0
*DC_PREC          10
*INTERLACED
*TFF
*BIAS             30
*INTRAVLC         2
*MATRIX           manono3
*LUMGAIN          1

Assuming stereo audio of 256 kBit/s, the average video bitrate to fill a DVD+R (4482.25 MiB) with 65 minutes of video would have to be 9269 kBit/s. This needs good quality media such as MCC 004 and a good burner (no laptop burner).

It delivers good results already (and I'd believe you with that bitrate!), and for the same bitrate it is even better than DVDFlick (which always scored the highest psnr/ssim in my tests) which delivered a lot of blocking in the sky.
Now I'd like to ask you if this bitrate could create any compatibility issues with dvd players, and in that event if I could decrease the bitrate to around 8-9 Mb/s while keeping the other settings.

You might give DVDRebuilder a try.
The free version can be altered to make settings in HCEnc.
I don't have the paid version but I understand that it is much easier to make the settings in.

The software seems interesting, but from what I could understand, it only acceps dvd-compliant streams as input, which are the ones I need to create in the first place...

HcEnc ini file looks like this, (but command line overrides some variables if stated in cmd line), or use different as suggested:

*MAXBITRATE       8500
*PROFILE          best
*CQ_MAXBITRATE    5.000
*DC_PREC          10
*PREVIEW
*INTRAVLC         2
*MATRIX           mpeg
*PRIORITY         normal
*WAIT             0

I tried your HCenc settings and they aren't bad considering the lower bitrate, even though I started experiencing more artifats that resemble blocking.
I still haven't tried the scripts, but I will as soon as I can.




Thanks by the way for your suggestions!

[Sharc]

If blocking is the main problem you may want to try changing the encoding matrix in HCenc. There used to be dozens if not hundreds of matrices available in the DVD age, tuned for certain purpose. Not sure where to find these now.
Best mpeg2 encoder for minimum blocking was Canopus Procoder as I remember. Maybe you can still find it somewhere in the internet.
Also CCE (Cinemacraft) was very good for interlaced video. Not sure whether a freeware version ever existed.

[Skiller]

Now I'd like to ask you if this bitrate could create any compatibility issues with dvd players, and in that event if I could decrease the bitrate to around 8-9 Mb/s while keeping the other settings.

My bitrate suggestion is very high but DVD-compliant. I made many DVDs with bitrates like that myself. As long as the media delivers low PIE/PIF values, all DVD-players in good working order will be fine playing such disc. There may be some dodgy players, pre 2004-ish, that had problems playing discs with maxed-out bitrates but I never found a single player myself that would struggle with this. It even plays perfectly fine on a Sony PlayStation 2, which is a very picky DVD-player and it has a slow drive.


You can certainly go a bit lower on the average bitrate and fit a couple more minutes on a disc without a noticeable drop in quality (8000-9000 KBit/s will be fine), but I would keep the max bitrate setting at 9600 with HCenc (assuming stereo audio in the range of 192-256 KBit/s). HC tends to be pretty cautious of the max bitrate you enter and will barely touch it and never overshoot it. For most other encoders I would opt for a max bitrate setting of 9400.