Betamax to DVD recorder

[jwillis84]

I'm looking at converting some consumer Betamax tapes to DVD (MPEG-2) format.

Betamax seemed to end its run in 1993, and s-video didn't arrive on that format until 1988.. so that kind of predates 1995.

The good thing is I think most of its lifespan predates 1989 'Macrovision' but I'm not sure that will even be an issue.

So broad question is was there (ever) a Betamax to DVD recorder?

I'm guessing not in the US.. but you know Funai .. they never saw a format conversion dare they never took up.. lol.

[cholla]

I never had Betamax.
A friend did so I saw a few Beta tapes but that was many years ago.

If you have a Betamax player that has either a s-video or rca composite outputs then connect that to a standalone DVD recorder.
That is how I transfer VHS to DVD.
I rarely do this anymore.
If you run into Macrovision then I believe a Dimax Grex will take care of it.
I have only used it with commercial VHS tapes but it works well.

[usually_quiet]

So broad question is was there (ever) a Betamax to DVD recorder?

Not that I recall. DVD recorders weren't available until 1999 or 2000, which is several years after the date you gave for the demise of Betamax. Also, I don't recall seeing even one DVD-VHS combo recorder in the early days of DVD recorders although there were units that could play DVDs and record/play VHS.

[jwillis84]

All good points.. perspective wise.

Windows 1995 came out in '94 or '95 and natively supported AVI.. which had two kinds.. progressive and interleaved (I think) with a sporadic smattering of optional compression codecs.. including MPEG1.. which I think was kind of.. sort of DV.

So Maybe I should be looking at Betamax to DV .. or Betamax to VCD (lol...)

I guess its a ludicrous thought that some far far Future technology like DVD's would even be conceived before 1995

A bespoken.. build your own.. workflow.. is probably more appropriate.

Toshiba and Pioneer DVD recorders do a nice job with SVHS.

I just had no idea.. no frame of reference.. for how long ago.. Betamax died.

Its like as old as the Pyramids.


...


Hmm Betamax died in North America 1993 with the release of the SL-HF2000

Same year as MacGyver ended, Quantum Leap started, same year Star Trek Deep Space Nine and Babylon 5.. premiered .. gosh, that was such a long time ago.

The year 2000 seemed lifetimes in the future.

Oh yeah.. same year Star Trek The Next Generation ended too.

Quite a coincidence of events.

[lingyi]

No Beta (Beta is the format, Betamax are only Sony machines) /DVD combo. mrbetamax.com and palsite.com lists all the NTSC and PAL machines. There may be few multi-system machines that aren't listed, but they very rare.

S-Video is only available on the SL-FH2100 (the 15TH Anniversary Betamax) and ED-Beta machines. EDV-7500/7300 U.S and Canada, EDV-9500/7300 U.S. and Canada, EDV-5000, EDV-6000, EDV-7000, EDV-8000, EDV-9000 Japan.

[lingyi]

The good thing is I think most of its lifespan predates 1989 'Macrovision' but I'm not sure that will even be an issue.
.

There were Beta releases with Macrovision and Copyguard. However, the AGC on most Sony machines*, not sure about other brands, ignored the signal when copying Beta to Beta. However, the signal was still there and would function as intended if the dub was copied to a VHS machine.

*Some models worked better than others. IIRC, my SL-HF2100 didn't ignore Macrovision.

[dellsam34]

Jwillis, why would you want DVD format? The compression is horrible, You have the capability to capture lossless and encode to h.264. I did a BIII speed ED Beta tapes over S-Video using the Sony EDV-7300, despite the poor quality of the source and the low speed used for recording it came out okay, Beta and Super Beta captures are coming.
https://youtu.be/MrBo3m9iWJc

[jwillis84]

I like DVD format.

Sometimes, capturing 4:4:4:4 in YUV with Huffyuv is Overkill for Sepia.

[cholla]

@ dellsam34
I looked at the YouTube & got a look at your list of equipment.
You are much better equipped than most of us.

I also am satisfied with DVD at least from a VHS tape.
I don't have a standalone bluray recorder but I believe it might make a better capture that a standalone DVD recorder.
If I want it digitized to a format like .mkv I just rip the DVD & convert it.
I could go strait from my VCR to my computers video card but I would need to buy one adapter I don't have.
So far I have never found this necessary.

[dellsam34]

I like DVD format.

Sometimes, capturing 4:4:4:4 in YUV with Huffyuv is Overkill for Sepia.

Yes 4:4:4 is overkill for analog SD, But DVD MPEG-2 is underkill, The sweet spot is AVI 4:2:2 YUV

[lordsmurf]

If you run into Macrovision then I believe a Dimax Grex will take care of it.

It will also massively screw up the video quality, too hot, too dark, flickering. It makes anti-copy less bad, more stable, but it's not removed. Still suffers the effects. This is a really crappy device.

[cholla]

If you run into Macrovision then I believe a Dimax Grex will take care of it.

It will also massively screw up the video quality, too hot, too dark, flickering. It makes anti-copy less bad, more stable, but it's not removed. Still suffers the effects. This is a really crappy device.

The Dimax Grex I have removes the Macrovision.
VHS tapes that are not recordable without it make DVDs that look as good to me as when the VHS tape is just played with a VCR to a TV.
Maybe you tested with a defective one as any electronic device can be.

This is what their website states:

http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html

Grex is a Macrovision Protection Remover or so called Digital Video Stabilizer or Video Clarifyer or Video Filter or Time Base Corrector (TBC) that simply disables Macrovision Protection in video signal.

Grex Opens Analogue Protection Hole to copy VHS-VHS, VHS-DVD, DVD-VHS, DVD-DVD
Grex removes all kinds of video protections including Macrovision Level I, Macrovision Level II ( Color stripe x 2 ), Macrovision Level III ( Color stripe x 4 ), CGMS, CGMS-A, Digital Broadcasting Flags. This way Grex opens you so called Analogue Protection Hole and let you copy and transfer any protected video content.

So unless they are False Advertising it removes Macrovision.

[lordsmurf]

The Dimax Grex I have removes the Macrovision.

But not transparently.

that look as good to me

This is a weasel phrase, an excuse to accept low quality.

Maybe you tested with a defective one

No. Many others have seen this too.

Grex is a Macrovision Protection Remover or so called Digital Video Stabilizer or Video Clarifyer or Video Filter or Time Base Corrector (TBC) that simply disables Macrovision Protection in video signal.

That statement is nonsense, and shows a complete lack of video understanding. It's not a TBC, and terms of "clarifier" and "stabilizer" are nothing terms that fool gullible consumer.

Grex Opens Analogue Protection Hole to copy VHS-VHS, VHS-DVD, DVD-VHS, DVD-DVD

The VHS>VHS is bad.
The VHS>DVD is bad.
The DVD>VHS is bad.
But the DVD>DVD does work. It is able to remove a clean non-analog injection.

Grex removes all kinds of video protections including Macrovision Level I, Macrovision Level II ( Color stripe x 2 ), Macrovision Level III ( Color stripe x 4 ), CGMS, CGMS-A, Digital Broadcasting Flags. This way Grex opens you so called Analogue Protection Hole and let you copy and transfer any protected video content.

Again, BS.

So unless they are False Advertising

If that's how you want to view it, then so be it.
It does not fully remove Macrovision, and creates visual issues.

[Eric-jan]

@jwillis84 do you already own a Betamax VCR ? if so, can it playback different recording speeds ? do you know if the tapes have only linear audio tracks, why copy pre recorded movies, (with Macrovision) when they can be streamed or downloaded easily ?

[dellsam34]

The Dimax Grex I have removes the Macrovision.
VHS tapes that are not recordable without it make DVDs that look as good to me as when the VHS tape is just played with a VCR to a TV.
Maybe you tested with a defective one as any electronic device can be.

Those consumer gadgets are basically line strippers, They remove the lines that have Macrovision and other flags and replace them with blank ones, Unlike a full fledged TBC that digitizes the entire frame, and replace the timing signals entirely, Though a full frame TBC may not be as good as this device when it comes to removing MV however a TBC produces more stable pictures and more transparent for non MV tapes than this device especially a composite only one like this. Both have a failure rate at removing MV since its position and number of lines used changed throughout the versions or from one firm to another (tape related). Such devices were more popular during the beginning of the DVD era where people copied DVD's to VHS tapes.

[cholla]

For myself a TBC would be an extravagance.
The last VHS I converted was about 2010.
I only did a few even from that time.
The reason I did it was the movie was only available on VHS.
They later did have a DVD but it was made from the VHS.
I never purchased the DVD .
It could have been better than the one I did if a TBC was used.

@ lordsmurf,
You can call it a "weasel phrase" if you like.
I watched from the VHS tape & the DVD I made from it.
To me they look the same.
VHS is only going to be so good no matter what is used.
A VHS ripped through or to any device in never going to have the quality of a BD UHD.
I do not expect it to.

[orsetto]

Beta (as a consumer format) was discontinued prior to the arrival of combo VCR+DVD units. So you would need to find a good working Betamax VCR and connect it to one of your dvd/hdd recorders (I've had good results using the same Pioneer models you own).

The difficulty is locating a Betamax in good working condition: they are getting very scarce and expensive now. Back in the early to mid 1980s, we had a choice of several brands offering distinct alternatives to the Sony designs (Toshiba and NEC went toward the high end, Sanyo the low). The Toshiba HiFi models were exceptionally good, the NEC almost as nice. But these are all long since dead and unrepairable: realistically, you will need to shop for a Sony version. Stick to the simpler models like SL-HF360 and you should be able to get one restored by a known Beta technician. Expect to pay close to (or a bit more than) what a good working JVC SVHS DigiPure sells for today.

[lingyi]

To my surprise, there are a lot of ED-Beta machines available from Japan on eBay in the $300-600 range, though the shipping will probably be a deal killer. Being a prosumer product, these will highly likely give better picture quality than any non ED-Beta. IMO, my EDV-7500 had the best picture quality, followed by the SL-HF2100 and SL-HF900. There are even EDV-9000 machines available for less than $1000!

Edit: I see some EDV-9000 machines for $600. Yes, I know it's a lot, but this and the SL-HF1000 were my holy grail Betas that I yearned for in my Betaphile days, but they never dropped below $1000 new, which was by limit to add to my collection.

[Eric-jan]

To my surprise, there are a lot of ED-Beta machines available from Japan on eBay in the $300-600 range, though the shipping will probably be a deal killer. Being a prosumer product, these will highly likely give better picture quality than any non ED-Beta. IMO, my EDV-7500 had the best picture quality, followed by the SL-HF2100 and SL-HF900. There are even EDV-9000 machines available for less than $1000!

Edit: I see some EDV-9000 machines for $600. Yes, I know it's a lot, but this and the SL-HF1000 were my holy grail Betas that I yearned for in my Betaphile days, but they never dropped below $1000 new, which was by limit to add to my collection.

Wrong IRE 0 =Japan does not matter in that case ? IRE USA = 7.5
How much tapes are we talking about ? jwillis84 ?

[dellsam34]

IRE can be adjusted in some capture devices, mostly pro captures, But if there is a NTSC-J option in a consumer driver I would assume the capture software will adjust for that automatically but I'm not certain, The problem is the voltage, a step down transformer to 100V must be used with the Japanese machines.

[rrats]

I like DVD format.

Sometimes, capturing 4:4:4:4 in YUV with Huffyuv is Overkill for Sepia.

4:4:4 might be overkill but mpeg2 is trash

[dellsam34]

MPEG-2 4:2:0 if done right with decent bitrate can look good, but it is a playback format, there is nothing you can do with it that doesn't end up butchering the video. Any editing or conversion to another format will always degrade the quality dramatically, But if you have a lossless AVI file you can do whatever you want with it with minimum loss, Even just using temporarily to encode to h.264 or h.265 will give much much better results for the same size MPEG-2 file, also h.264/265 will outlast MPEG-2 for sure.

[orsetto]

The later, somewhat exotic Sony ED Beta models are lovely, but depending on your priorities and budget can be somewhat to very impractical. They were of extremely limited appeal outside the Japanese home market, so most available examples must now be ordered from Japan. This entails some degree of risk, because if the seller is even slightly mistaken about as-is operating condition you can expect to whistle up a rope trying to find someone in North America for parts/repairs. The few remaining US-based Beta repair techs tend to specialize in restoring midrange mid-80s SuperBetaHiFi models. These were chunky heavy units employing a lot of discrete, standardized, relatively simple parts/circuits with service routines that applied across multiple model variations.

Unless you actually have some ED Beta tapes to digitize, splurging for an ED Betamax could be a risky, expensive indulgence. Leave them to the collectors and hard-core Beta enthusiasts who really need them to play large collections of ED Beta format tapes. Even in "ordinary" SuperBeta guise, some of the later post-1989 models have given me trouble with tracking interchange (these I owned from brand new, so I can only imagine second hand). Aside from reputation for baseline playback performance, the highest priority with any vintage VCR today is ability to get repairs (or even better, ability to purchase turn-key recently-overhauled examples directly from a technician). The latter is more crucial for Beta format than VHS: the average Sony Betamax weighs twice as much as the average SVHS vcr, making shipping costs and packing expertise that much more critical (you don't want to needlessly ship them to and fro). Your best bet for a turn-key, pre-serviced Betamax is one of the midrange SuperBetaHiFi units sold btwn 1986-88.

[orsetto]

Re MPEG2: the OP jwillis84 has long been experimenting with a fairly unique workflow involving DVD/HDD recorders and ISObuster HDD file extraction. Hence his curiosity about the existence of a Beta format combo recorder.

And while it is considered heresy, some of us find the experience of lossless PC-based capture workflow akin to driving a rusty railroad spike thru ones head (slowly, with steadily increasing pressure, until it pierces the cerebral cortex and pops out the other side of the skull). There are still some applications where employing a decent DVD/HDD recorder for direct-from-VCR MPEG2 capture is more practical and efficient. Some of us have truckloads of taped material that requires no more than quick adequate capture to a reasonably standard format: the bloated size of MPEG2 files in exchange for not tearing our hair out by the roots tediously nursing hundreds of (lets be honest, ultimately pointless) tape transfers via PC>AVI>264 is worth the compromise. When the material warrants, I'll pull out the stops for the complex capture workflow, but such gems are rare in my tape collection. Others with truly irreplaceable, unique collections of anime or never-repeated TV events or personal family videos will of course have greater incentive toward the more versatile, higher quality PC capture workflow.

[jwillis84]

..

[dellsam34]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting that number, 200 tapes would take you some time to even sort out and catalogue let alone capture or even worse de-interlace, crop, resize and encode.
Fishing expeditions sound too boring to me, that's the type of tapes that I would throw in the trash bin without looking back, But for you or someone else, it may amount to the effort of using a DVD recorder having too many of them, Good luck.

[lordsmurf]

VHS is only going to be so good no matter what is used..

Another weasel phrase, an excuse for bad quality. VHS can look excellent when not badly transferred.

A VHS ripped

VHS is not ripped. Impossible. It's not optical.
VHS is captured, ingested.

Fishing expeditions sound too boring to me,.

Nah. Some real treasures can pop up.

using a DVD recorder having too many of them,

Sometimes, using the excellent LSI recorders from JVC.

[rrats]

VHS can look excellent when not badly transferred.

Partially true. You ain't gonna et good quality video from an SLP tape

[dellsam34]

VHS can look excellent when not badly transferred.

Partially true. You ain't gonna et good quality video from an SLP tape

Agree, but that's not the fault of the capturing process, it's the fault of the person who recorded the tape. The goal of good quality capturing for the tapes that deserve it is to stay as close to what's on the tape as possible, regardless what is recorded on the tape.

[jwillis84]

..