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  1. Member
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    Hello everyone!

    I recently bought a new Frame TBC model Cypress CTB-100 and since then, the audio and video are desynchronized after an hour. Before adding this Frame TBC to my setup, the audio wasn't desynchronized from the video.

    I have thought that it is a problem of the timing configuration or as the audio doesn't go through the Frame TBC and the Frame TBC has to process the image, it can cause an A/V desynchronization.

    This is my setup: JVC HR-S3900U > Panasonic DMR-ES15 > Cypress CTB-100 > ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB > Windows XP > VirtualDub 1.9.11 (HuffYUV). All using high quality S-Video and RCA cables.

    I attached my timing configuration.

    This is my computer:

    Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 2.66GHz
    Kingston KVR66702N5/1G DDR2-667 CL5
    AsRock 775Dual-VSTA
    ATI Radeon 9250
    Western Digital 40GB IDE (OS)
    Seagate 1TB HDD CMR SATA (Captures)

    Thanks!
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    Last edited by KhAoS182; 18th Jul 2022 at 13:31.
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  2. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    What's the reason for adding Cypress CTB-100?
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  3. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    What's the reason for adding Cypress CTB-100?
    Yeah, the DMR-ES15 should be enough…. otherwise get a ES35V from ebay.
    My guess ….your Seagate 1TB HDD CMR SATA is too slow for uncompressed capturing
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  4. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    The first two timing option tick boxes should always be checked (=enabled).

    I agree there is no point adding the Cypress CTB-100 after the ES15.
    Better use either one but not both.
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    Originally Posted by Dellsam34
    What's the reason for adding Cypress CTB-100?
    Because LS says we need a frame TBC as well as a line TBC.
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  6. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    Right, that may apply to Line-TBCs built into VCRs, but I have yet to see how a frame TBC would yield an improvement in a scenario like this one – considering the output of Panasonic DVD-recorders has the original sync pulses of the VHS source replaced with perfect new ones. For anything after the Panasonic the signal looks pristine with nothing left to correct.
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    I'll have to defer to the expert on that, Skiller. I just do what I am told!

    That said, if I understand LS's position correctly, the frame TBC is necessary to keep the A and V synched.
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  8. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    I'll have to defer to the expert on that, Skiller. I just do what I am told!

    That said, if I understand LS's position correctly, the frame TBC is necessary to keep the A and V synched.
    I never did understand the difference between frame and line TBC's, never had problems in my setup, how does one see, which one is missing to need the one or the other ?
    I think one should also keep the differences in mind between PAL and NTSC, consumer devices can also have "baked in" faults, or different analog levels.(of any kind)
    (Japan IRE=0 US IRE=7.5 PAL IRE=0) (Spain = PAL) (Australia = PAL)
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 22nd Jul 2022 at 05:54.
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    The evidence of the line TBC is pretty obvious: the wobbly sides.

    The frame TBC helps with the AV sync.

    I've captured plenty of tapes without a frame TBC with no sync issues. Of course, with the (our) ES-35 and EZ-48, the strong "stabiliser" looks after the wobbles nicely.
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    The evidence of the line TBC is pretty obvious: the wobbly sides.

    The frame TBC helps with the AV sync.

    I've captured plenty of tapes without a frame TBC with no sync issues. Of course, with the (our) ES-35 and EZ-48, the strong "stabiliser" looks after the wobbles nicely.
    With the DMR-ES15 I haven't had any a/v synchronization problems, it has also fixed some tapes that produced jitter.
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  11. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    The evidence of the line TBC is pretty obvious: the wobbly sides.

    The frame TBC helps with the AV sync.

    I've captured plenty of tapes without a frame TBC with no sync issues. Of course, with the (our) ES-35 and EZ-48, the strong "stabiliser" looks after the wobbles nicely.
    Thankyou, Alwyn.
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  12. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    This YouTube member demonstrated that some VCRs' line TBC is good enough to prevent even frame sync issues and frame drops, I'm not suggesting this is always the case or the card demonstrated is good, although I read positive reviews about it.
    @ Eric-jan in response to your question about line TBC, watch to the end of the clip where the line timing errors are circled in orange.
    https://youtu.be/SFpkNUoq-ac
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  13. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    This YouTube member demonstrated that some VCRs' line TBC is good enough to prevent even frame sync issues and frame drops, I'm not suggesting this is always the case or the card demonstrated is good, although I read positive reviews about it.
    @ Eric-jan in response to your question about line TBC, watch to the end of the clip where the line timing errors are circled in orange.
    https://youtu.be/SFpkNUoq-ac
    I have no problems with any vhs tape or source with my DMR-ES35V - Intensity Shuttle combination, no sync issues with long recordings, but now i use only BMD hardware, since no TBC is needed, also no PC/MAC needed for capture i record onto SD or (T5)SSD also with BMD hardware recorders.
    Thankyou for the example !
    "
    btw. i now discovered that the TBC like function was called "VHS refresh" which some of the Panasonic combo's or recorders had build in.
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 23rd Jul 2022 at 07:27.
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    I’m trying to transfer PAL tapes with my new Panasonic NV-HS950 (TBC/3D-DNR On) with VirtualDub 1.9.11 using ATI 600 USB and Tevion Clone without Frame TBC and I have A/V sync issues. They aren’t synchronized, there’s no way and I don't know what to do anymore, I have tried many timing settings and nothing changes. I hace two PC, a very good built PC with Windows XP and my gamer PC with W10. In both I don’t get results.

    Any help? Thanks.
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  15. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Like said the Cypress CTB-100 is not needed your problem lies in that you have slow storage during your capture.
    optimize one PC…. or use (stronger?) compression codec during capture.
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    Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    Like said the Cypress CTB-100 is not needed your problem lies in that you have slow storage during your capture.
    optimize one PC…. or use (stronger?) compression codec during capture.
    I removed the Cypress CTB-100, this is my lineage VHS > Panasonic NV-HS950 (TBC/3D-DNR On) > ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB > Windows XP > VirtualDub 1.9.11 > .avi (HuffYUV). I don't know where is the problem. I have a very good XP machine with this specs:


    Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 2.66GHz
    Kingston KVR66702N5/1G DDR2-667 CL5
    AsRock 775Dual-VSTA
    ATI Radeon 9250
    Western Digital 40GB IDE (OS)
    Seagate 1TB HDD CMR SATA (Captures)
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  17. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    We know the CTB-100 was the problem, Why did you remove the Panasonic DMR-ES15? Didn't you say you had no problems with this setup before adding the CTB-100? Put it back in and let us know what happens.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    We know the CTB-100 was the problem, Why did you remove the Panasonic DMR-ES15? Didn't you say you had no problems with this setup before adding the CTB-100? Put it back in and let us know what happens.
    The DMR-ES15 is for my NTSC setup, and looking at the captures well, I see that when they take more than an hour they are out of sync
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  19. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Oh I see. Are you capturing via USB2 or USB3?
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Oh I see. Are you capturing via USB2 or USB3?
    USB2, my XP machine doesn't have USB3
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  21. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Try your newer computer using USB3, capture over an hour, make sure all background activities are disabled and report back. USB2 speed is right at the edge of lossless capturing bandwidth, despite the advancement of CPU, memory and storage, the USB2 speed hasn't changed, It is not always the culprit but sometimes it is especially when a TBC is in the chain and yet the problem persists.
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  22. Member
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Try your newer computer using USB3, capture over an hour, make sure all background activities are disabled and report back. USB2 speed is right at the edge of lossless capturing bandwidth, despite the advancement of CPU, memory and storage, the USB2 speed hasn't changed, It is not always the culprit but sometimes it is especially when a TBC is in the chain and yet the problem persists.
    I've tried with USB3 and the same thing happens to me, I don't know if it's because of the timing settings or something else that I'm not looking at
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  23. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    There is a data bottleneck somewhere that you need to figure out, and the only way to figure it out is by experimenting and trying out different capturing methods, ports, capture software, and sometimes even different capture devices. It is the nature of the beast.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    There is a data bottleneck somewhere that you need to figure out, and the only way to figure it out is by experimenting and trying out different capturing methods, ports, capture software, and sometimes even different capture devices. It is the nature of the beast.
    I will try now. What alternative program would you use, Amarec? When you capture down you always have 0 dropped frames 0ms jitter and 0ms disp or does it vary? Thanks.
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  25. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    The goal is to always have 0 frames but very few in a 2 hour video are not going to matter.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    The goal is to always have 0 frames but very few in a 2 hour video are not going to matter.
    I have always 0 dropped frames but jitter/disp it varies. See attached image.
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  27. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    What do you mean by jitter, and how that is related to audio/video de-sync?
    If audio drift was caused by dropped/added frames the TBC would have fixed it, We've already established that. You have other data problems somewhere as I said before.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    What do you mean by jitter, and how that is related to audio/video de-sync?
    I have a friend who always has 0ms and I have deduced that the problem may be there
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    What do you mean by jitter, and how that is related to audio/video de-sync?
    If audio drift was caused by dropped/added frames the TBC would have fixed it, We've already established that. You have other data problems somewhere as I said before.
    Now I only using the Line TBC of NV-HS950
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  30. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    Post a screenshot of the VD capture window during a capture but after it had been capturing for a couple of minutes. I'm interested in the stats on the right side of the window. Press the "Print" key next to F12 to do so, and then paste it in MS Paint, save as PNG. No need to use a camera.
    While we are at it, why not enable the timing graph ("Capture" -> "Timing graph").


    Have you tried enabling the first two timing settings?


    Are you using audio preview during capture?
    If yes, disable it (uncheck "Audio" -> "Enable audio playback")

    Edit: You could also try disabling video preview during capture. I always do that as I found it can be troublesome sometimes. The video can be better monitored on a TV anyways. "Capture" -> "Hide display on capture".


    Disconnect from the local network/internet during capture by disabling the network device and stop anything running in the background, including virus scanners.


    If none of that helps, heck, enable audio resync in VD. It should not be needed for the 600 USB, but if it fixes the audio sync I would not question it.
    Last edited by Skiller; 24th Jul 2022 at 19:15.
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