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  1. Member
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    I'm trying to find a simple 4K UHD blu-ray authoring software that will take already encoded 4k HEVC files and can author and burn or produce an ISO image that can be burned to BD, BD-DL and BD-XL as a 4K UHD Blu-ray. I can do without menus, but what is an absolute requirement is that it doesn't re-encode the files I author.

    This is for home videos, so I'm not talking about something crazy expensive like Scenarist or the DVDLogic line. I'm looking into DVDFab's UHD Creator, which seems to be $35, but I read many horror stories online about people that were scammed by that company and DVDFab stopped working for them even though they had paid for it. So it seems kind of sketchy, but who knows. Anyone here has any experience with that program?

    If it can have menus, fine, but not absolutely necessary. HDR and/or Dolby Vision would be nice, but not a must.

    So what's out there in 2022? My online search gives me more confusion than anything else, but in the same way there were several accessible or even free Blu-ray authoring programs, by now there should be at least one or two for 4K Blu-ray, right? Or am I dreaming?
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  2. Blu-Disc Studio developer CDK's Avatar
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    tsMuxer is free and does not re-encode files.
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    Originally Posted by sebaz View Post
    I'm trying to find a simple 4K UHD blu-ray authoring software that will take already encoded 4k HEVC files and can author and burn or produce an ISO image that can be burned to BD, BD-DL and BD-XL as a 4K UHD Blu-ray. I can do without menus, but what is an absolute requirement is that it doesn't re-encode the files I author.

    This is for home videos, so I'm not talking about something crazy expensive like Scenarist or the DVDLogic line. I'm looking into DVDFab's UHD Creator, which seems to be $35, but I read many horror stories online about people that were scammed by that company and DVDFab stopped working for them even though they had paid for it. So it seems kind of sketchy, but who knows. Anyone here has any experience with that program?

    If it can have menus, fine, but not absolutely necessary. HDR and/or Dolby Vision would be nice, but not a must.

    So what's out there in 2022? My online search gives me more confusion than anything else, but in the same way there were several accessible or even free Blu-ray authoring programs, by now there should be at least one or two for 4K Blu-ray, right? Or am I dreaming?
    There is no cheap or free software that does true UHD Blu-ray authoring. All of the free/cheap stuff is reverse-engineered with limited features. Also, there is still no spec covering UHD Blu-ray on burned media and some UHD Blu-ray players don't support or don't fully support playing BD-R XL media if you need more than 50 GB (BD-R DL). Together, all of this means there is no guarantee the resulting disc will be playable on every UHD Blu-ray player.

    That being said, if you want to experiment, TSM2UHD, an offshoot of tsMuxR, is the closest thing to what you want that is not from DVDFab. TSM2UHD doesn't allow creating menus and the video and audio to be authored must already be UHD Blu-ray compliant. Also, TSM2UHD's creator says the following: "Bitrates! Remember, An original stream may not work as is -- as its maximum bitrate could exceed that of a BD-50 or BD-25 disc. I recommend you make sure the total of all streams does not exceed 50Mbs combined for BD-50 (absolutely no more than 64Mbs) and 35Mbs for BD-25."

    DVDFab uses a subscription-based model for most of its software so one must pay them every year to keep using the software or pay significantly more for a lifetime subscription.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 20th Jun 2022 at 11:06.
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    It is 2022, but nothing has changed on this front. 4k UHDBD is already a niche market. Most what work with 4k+ material no longer need, or seem to want, optical discs as their sharing & playback methods. That makes interest in reverse engineering even less likely.


    Scott
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  5. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    It always amuses me how we have this wide divergence between those wanting 4K (when nothing really exists natively at 4K anyway), and others are using Youtube on phones. I'd be surprised if many of those 4K users are truly using anything large enough that shows the 4K anyway.

    Or 4K sources with an actual 4K resolve. A "home video" absolutely will not have 4K resolve, just the 4K palette with HD-ish resolve.

    Best of all is the compressed 4K, where H.264/5 rounding errors obliterated fine 4K details.

    These conversations quickly become moot.

    I've seen HD Blu-ray discs that look just as good as "4K" content, or better.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 20th Jun 2022 at 12:17.
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  6. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    It is 2022, but nothing has changed on this front. 4k UHDBD is already a niche market. Most what work with 4k+ material no longer need, or seem to want, optical discs as their sharing & playback methods. That makes interest in reverse engineering even less likely.


    Scott
    Yah, Streaming is taking the lead, If the OP's source materials are from streaming 4K contents assuming you managed to capture them just keep them the way they are on the hard drive, going through the trouble of buying blank media, author, burn and hopefully would play on your player is time and money consuming.
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    Thank you all for your replies. I thought I was going to get email notifications when somebody replied, but I didn't.

    Thanks usually_quiet for the tip about TSM2UHD. I am familiar with TSMuxer, great little software I used for years, so I'll definitely give TSM2UHD a try.

    It's sad that we don't have anything for authoring 4K Blu-rays at the consumer level, and I definitely don't want to pay DVDFab a subscription, especially with so many people online saying they were scammed by them. Hell, I sent them a message asking them technical questions days ago, and haven't hear back from them.

    People think the cloud is this magical place where everything will be kept safe forever, and I have nothing against the cloud, it has a lot of great uses. But for my archival stuff, I want to have a physical disc I can keep, and most definitely, I don't want to upload family videos to the cloud where they could some day be accessed by the public.
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  8. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    I don't think we were talking about home videos and cloud, We assumed you are backing up movies. Physical media doesn't have to be BD-R's, Hard drives are cheaper per GB, make double copies for redundancy and store them away.
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  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Yes, unlike in years past, what comes out of modern cameras is basically just your standard avc- or hevc-in-mp4 files. Even for fancier intra variations. That is easy to archive, using hdd arrays, standard data (non-authored) optical discs, cloud options, or even tape backup. And if you are archiving using best practices, it makes sense to use multiple versions of these.

    If you are intending to share these and not worried about long term stability, cloud sharing is certainly a preferred way to go these days as it is certainly the most convenient, compatible, and probably universal of the options. And fearmongering news articles notwithstanding, they are quite stable, private, and secure storage methods.

    There is also nothing stopping you from using BDs to create authored copies for sharing, if you know your audience still has optical disc players, but that is much less common now. And it actually makes sense to downrez them to 1080 to keep them more universally compatible, as the uptake of 4k players has been much less than dvd or bd. Finding inexpensive HD BD authoring is still difficult, but not impossible.

    If sharing, nor archiving, isn't really the driving force here, it sounds more like a personal whim project to get one's own creations onto a deluxe consumer medium, with all the menu/chapter bells and whistles.
    But if that is the case, that medium (still) isn't meant for hobbyist producers, as I have mentioned before. It's the big leagues and it requires big league investment. What's the phrase? "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."


    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 21st Jun 2022 at 14:13.
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  10. BD Rebuilder will do what you are asking and its free
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  11. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hdfills View Post
    BD Rebuilder will do what you are asking and its free
    This option IS free, but it may or may not do what the OP is asking. It depends on if the OP is asking to create a fully UHDBD-compliant disc or not.

    If compliance is a requirement, that is not possible, since the spec has NEVER been finalized (or if internally finalized, certainly not made public) for burnable discs, and what exists is a reverse-engineered hack to approximate the experience of a stamped UHDBD (aka the ROM v4.0 spec). Approximate being the operative word. It might or might not work in any given UHD BD player. BTW, bitrate limitations are often a big issue here.

    If the OP doesn't care about compliance, or is willing to take the risk of it not working on their system (now, or possibly later in the future if BD manufacturers put out a required firmware change), then this might be acceptable.


    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 21st Jun 2022 at 17:05.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Yah, Streaming is taking the lead, If the OP's source materials are from streaming 4K contents assuming you managed to capture them just keep them the way they are on the hard drive, going through the trouble of buying blank media, author, burn and hopefully would play on your player is time and money consuming.
    Why exactly would you imply that I want to author pirated streaming media, when I even said in my first post that they are home videos? The reason I put "already encoded 4k HEVC files" is because I didn't think that anyone would give a damn about the first part of the process, which is editing my 12 years of HD and 4K home videos in a Mac Studio that I just got and it encodes to HEVC at a third of the duration of the footage. But macOS does not have any 4K Blu-ray authoring software, plus last year I spent a good amount of money on a good internal Pioneer burner for my PC, so I can start archiving a lot of things, along with a lot of Japanese Verbatim M-Discs, the ones that are supposed to last 100 years. So the plan is to edit the video in Final Cut Pro, encode to HEVC in Apple Compressor, and send the rendered files over the LAN to my good old PC that I built myself ten years ago and still works as good as day one, and is perfectly capable of authoring a Blu-ray or 4K Blu-ray, and can decode HEVC with a lot of effort, but it takes days to encode even a 30 minute video to HEVC.

    Is that detailed explanation enough for you? I just don't get why would you simply assume that I wanted to find a way to find pirated streams from Netflix, Amazon and others, then find a way to burn them to a disc. It's just so time consuming and expensive that I'd rather spend the 20 bucks in the actual normal release. And less than that, because there are sales of Blu-rays for absurdly low prices all the time. Not to mention that save for Disney+, the picture quality on Netflix, Prime Video and the others is mediocre as hell, and a good 1080p Blu-ray always beats a 4K stream from those services.

    It's just stupid to come to a forum and accuse someone of piracy when that person gave you zero reasons to suspect that. It's no different than me accusing you of the same. Why the hell would I do that? I don't know you. As far as I know, you haven't posted anything implying that you want to download pirated movies and put them on disc.

    So next time, if you don't have anything constructive to say, just shut the hell up, and especially don't accuse people of committing a crime when you know jackshit about them.
    Last edited by sebaz; 25th Jun 2022 at 00:29.
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    @sebaz You are chewing out the wrong person. dellsam34 wrote the post you are quoting above (#6), not Scott.
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  14. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    It's a miss quote. I'm not implying anything, There is nothing wrong with keeping a copy of your paid contents for personal use only, What's illegal is distributing them to other people, uploading them online or selling them, Even back when streaming was not a thing I had a Dishnet satellite receiver that was modified by adding a USB mini port to stream the channels contents as they are without loss of quality to the computer's hard drive for personal use by a US company called NextcomeWireless, and yes they know it is not illegal otherwise they wouldn't be operating in the US and DN would have sued them instantly.
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  15. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    @sebaz, there is nothing stopping you from shooting your hd & 4k footage, editing them, and encoding to 4k HEVC files for archival, distribution/sharing, and/or playback. In fact, I recommend you do so, although I also recommend you keep your EDLs and your original camera footage, and that you use multiple archive methods (including optical discs, like Mdisc if you prefer) for failsafe backup.

    But none of these require AUTHORING. If you must have them be authored, you first must make sure they follow encoding specs for the format (and just to be clear, just because something is 4k HEVC does not necessarily make it 4KBD compliant, or even close). If they get encoded to a non compliant format, they WOULD have to be re-encoded. Again. To make them compliant.

    After encoding comes authoring, and what I said about authoring 4kBD in posts previously (especially #11) still is true and is unavoidable.

    Me, I see little benefit in making all the effort just to get part way towards compliance, when your existing 4k HEVC is easily viewable in so many general media players.

    But it's your stuff, so do what you want. I'm just here to give you some knowledgeable facts & experience.

    But, strange that you would jump to "pirated" when literally nobody said that.


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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    @sebaz You are chewing out the wrong person. dellsam34 wrote the post you are quoting above (#6), not Scott.
    Yeah, sorry, that guy was quoting somebody else and I don't post a lot in forums so I missed that. I edited the post now and I think I did it the right way. But thanks for bringing it up, I never want to take it out on someone who did nothing to me.
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    @sebaz, there is nothing stopping you from shooting your hd & 4k footage, editing them, and encoding to 4k HEVC files for archival, distribution/sharing, and/or playback. In fact, I recommend you do so, although I also recommend you keep your EDLs and your original camera footage, and that you use multiple archive methods (including optical discs, like Mdisc if you prefer) for failsafe backup.
    Well, that's a little too much for my goal. I've had the camera footage for years, now the goal is to get rid of TBs and more TBs over internal and external drives, no need for EDLs and multiple archival methods, that defeats the purpose.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    But none of these require AUTHORING. If you must have them be authored, you first must make sure they follow encoding specs for the format (and just to be clear, just because something is 4k HEVC does not necessarily make it 4KBD compliant, or even close). If they get encoded to a non compliant format, they WOULD have to be re-encoded. Again. To make them compliant.
    After encoding comes authoring, and what I said about authoring 4kBD in posts previously (especially #11) still is true and is unavoidable.
    I've been a videographer for over 20 years. I know all these things you're telling me, including the lack of need for authoring. But my interest in finding a 4K Blu-ray authoring program is because I'm a tech nerd. I just want to see if it's possible. I authored Blu-rays for years with Encore and I loved the process, it all comes down to that. If Adobe would've kept licensing it from I think it was Roxio if memory serves me well, and maybe came up with a new 4K version, I would be looking for nothing. And I'm aware I don't exactly need to "author" a 4K blu-ray, when I can just open ImgBurn and make a data disc that all three of my 4K Blu-ray players will play fine. I just wanted to see if it's possible. But if you guys are telling me the situation is kind of different because the standard is not even finished (which I thought it was since I have like 30 4K blu-rays that I've been buying since 2016), then maybe it's just easier to just drop the file into the disc as just a file.

    I will try out BDRebuilder, thanks for the recommendation, but if it tries to re-encode the file then that's it, I'm down to just drop the file from Compressor into the disc.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    But, strange that you would jump to "pirated" when literally nobody said that.
    Scott
    Really, dude? I said clearly in my first post that I was basically trying to author a 4K Blu-ray with home videos. Then the guy came up with his great theory about everything I was trying to do. And when you imply very clearly, that "If the OP's source materials are from streaming 4K contents assuming you managed to capture them just keep them the way they are on the hard drive". Well, that's a clear situation where there's capture of copyrighted IP. He may not have fully accused me of piracy but implied it, without any reason. Same as you with your "But, strange that you would jump to "pirated" when literally nobody said that." You forgot to add "Wink wink" at the end.
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  18. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Streaming does not automatically equal no sharing allowed. As a videographer of over 20 years you should already know that. Perhaps we touched a raw nerve.

    Good luck,

    Scott
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  19. Having a coffee in front of me, just some relaxed opinions, there is no help in those lines for you, you might just as well not read it,

    4k authoring is not suppose to be for masses, it serves corps as exclusive delivery platform, but Im sure you know that. When there is a chance, they WILL change it and maybe sooner than you think. Everyday user would just box himself into a trap. Sometimes later, there will be someone trying to get a content "out of that box", so I would set it straight and just have HEVC burned as data, if that is a prefer storage medium. Just think for that person trying to get a stream format out of formatted authoring data again. Anyway, even just simple copying an optical disc data turns into a separate "player box" purchase to get digital content out of it (that is a optimistic scenario) and hoping that data were burned to last. I remember around 2000 how DVD's were suppose to last "forever".

    If having nerd tendencies, nothing wrong with that, how about including some executable file in some programing language that would launch some presentation. Think of those many hours wasted figuring out VM commands and DVD/BD structures, authoring tools, and after some time, that knowledge is useless, because it is just for a particular throwaway boxed system for a time. It was rigged since the beginning. They are organized, man .... . Knowledge of programming language on the other hand stays.
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Streaming does not automatically equal no sharing allowed. As a videographer of over 20 years you should already know that. Perhaps we touched a raw nerve.

    Good luck,

    Scott
    Whatever, dude.
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    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    If having nerd tendencies, nothing wrong with that, how about including some executable file in some programing language that would launch some presentation. Think of those many hours wasted figuring out VM commands and DVD/BD structures, authoring tools, and after some time, that knowledge is useless, because it is just for a particular throwaway boxed system for a time. It was rigged since the beginning. They are organized, man .... . Knowledge of programming language on the other hand stays.
    Ha ha I'm a tech nerd, but not at that level. I couldn't write code to save my life. Plus it's boring as hell. Authoring discs with menus and chapters and all that is fun. You can create a nice looking menu in Photoshop, and assign the actions and all that. Throwing files and burning is not as fun. Plus I just tested it and it doesn't work perfectly as a normal Blu-ray. Granted, I encoded it using one of the presets in the Apple Devices and used ImgBurn to burn it to a BD-RE. I put the disc in my Oppo player and it plays the file, but first I have to navigate to the Movie item in the menu with that godawful remote control the Oppo has, then click on it, then click again on the disc icon, then select the file in the list I want to play.

    And the problem is, the file plays fine, but it doesn't recognize the chapters I set in FCP (but I have to check if maybe I missed a setting in Compressor for that), but also, I can only fast forward at the first speed, because if I press the button to go into 2x, the player skips to the next file, or if it's the last file, just stops. So I'm going to try a few more things, other presets and also Handbrake and see what happens.

    Oh, and I tried BD Rebuilder, and at least the first two files that I encoded yesterday (basically the same 30 minute video, one of them in 10-bit HEVC and the other one the same but adding Dolby Vision to it (I know that's not the way it works, I was just playing), and it started encoding to HEVC with my poor i7 3930K CPU at 100% in all 12 of its hyperthreaded cores.
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  22. I was exactly where you are now, 10 years ago or so, having no problem authorizing DVD's (using DVDlabPro and Photoshop) , 100% custom DVD's, creating DVD Volume or ISO, and possibly touching up DVD Volume using PGCEdit to change VM commands.

    But at that time, starting to fiddle with HD content, I switched to HD media player boxes, which pull data from network, hardisk or thumb-drive. At that time it was WDTV media player novelty, but it has moved since and many media players are out there, not using BD players.
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  23. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    I was exactly where you are now, 10 years ago or so, having no problem authorizing DVD's (using DVDlabPro and Photoshop) , 100% custom DVD's, creating DVD Volume or ISO, and possibly touching up DVD Volume using PGCEdit to change VM commands.

    But at that time, starting to fiddle with HD content, I switched to HD media player boxes, which pull data from network, hardisk or thumb-drive. At that time it was WDTV media player novelty, but it has moved since and many media players are out there, not using BD players.
    Couldn't have said it any better.
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  24. Just adding, if googling "WDTV media player" , there might be links to Amazon and those devices are listed for $499 or $599. That's a total BS, they prey on folks that have read about those players on web, about how great they are, but not realizing those links and recommendations are very old. There was a real hype then to get those players and get rid of disc authoring nonsense back then basically. We got those devices for $100 at that time or so. BestBuy was selling them. Now WDTV are perhaps most likely obsolete, some are still in use and work well, don't know. Just that price is ridiculous.
    Last edited by _Al_; 25th Jun 2022 at 18:05.
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  25. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    Think of those many hours wasted figuring out ... DVD/BD structures, authoring tools, and after some time, that knowledge is useless, because it is just for a particular throwaway boxed system for a time.
    You just described the entire DVD era.

    "after some time" was about a decade long. And that era ended about a decade ago.
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  26. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    I remember authoring my own wedding DVD mid 2000 from captured VHS-C video files, it took me days trying to perfect it, I even used printable disc to print out the label using photoshop and Epson CD printer, What do I watch now if I want to go back and see it? The captured files from an external hard drive, Haven't played a DVD for over 15 years. Sorry if I went off topic.
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  27. I'm still using my 'old' WDTV media player. But I'm old too so all is good.
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Carl Sagan
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    Originally Posted by TreeTops View Post
    I'm still using my 'old' WDTV media player. But I'm old too so all is good.
    I still use WDTV. Main reason is to play ISOs on portable HDDs. I also have a Samsung Blu-ray player that I've almost never used for BDs, only streaming. Slightly better than WDTV for H.264 and Xvid playback.

    While that may seem OT, in some years (if not already) authoring 4K will be equally time wasteful, you'll just watch the files from drives. The main reason for DVDs is it's still more archival than BDs or HDDs (including cloud, SSD). So 4K BDs not archival, not universal, an overall waste.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 27th Jun 2022 at 00:32. Reason: Fixed sentence.
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  29. I had three of them, changing firmwares, it was hit and miss sometimes, bet never got a brick. As of now, one or two were fried somehow, they stopped functioning in a way, were heavily used by everyone for years even for streaming services (not the first model) , but I still have one unit somewhere in a box, guessing , might be selling it for $599 on eBay

    I got HDV camcorder around 2008 or 2009, realizing that 1440x1080 was totally missing from specs (later allowed, not sure). But Sony just blocked THEIR format to be included on BD specs (common do not tell me that be more expensive or something, to put couple of more code lines somewhere) , where millions of people started to use HDv mpeg camcorders shooting 1440x1080 25/30i. And that format or resolution was not allowed on specs for BD. Camcorders audio was not allowed either. Imagine straight 1:1 copies from those camcorders to be put straight to BD. Perhaps a corp top manager nightmare Some BD players played that as data, but no authoring, some choked on that camcorders audio if I remember correctly. That was a moment of realization that corps do not work for folks, that DVD or BD is not a folk standard or tool specifically menu creating, authoring. Whereas general public thought, those are the tools (authoring tools, specs), created for them. That was a major push to go with WDTV and those HD files. All major NLE videoeditors could render HDV (mpeg2 with mpeglayer2 audio) without re-compression to HDV again (I was using Vegas), only changed parts needed to be re-encoded, like transition etc. Anyway Folk formats settled to be Avi's (DivX or XviD) or mpeg's and later mp4's (H264+AAC). Sure at the beginning it was WMV, remeber? Only interchangeable between folks to be guaranteed to work between PC or web browser, around 2000 or right after. Format created by older camcorders using standard resolution, interlaced DV avi format was not playable since the beginning on any device except PC with DV codec installed. Chips for those media player boxes inside those units never handle DV avi codec (again, conspiracy! , there is a billion , billions of hours of DVavi footage but nothing can play it). There was one exception, very early media box that handle it, I forgot its name though. So even today, those media boxes need be able to install Kodi for example to be able to play DV codec, but deinterlace is horrible anyway.

    I had tons of DV avi videos, made a batch file to make it ready for distribution or for those players. Automatically got doubleframe rate deinterlace from dv avi using QTGMC to mp4 (using CRF) or mpeg2 and ISO or VIDEO_TS, calculating most bitrate distribution if wanting a disk, either 1pass CQ (max 8000 or so for DVD specs) or 2pass (calculating average to fit it on a disk if 1pass CQ would cross disk capacity). It burned a disk as well if a blank was in a tray (choice setup, making ISO or ISO and burn it right away, or not even making ISO, VIDEO_TS was enough for ImgBurn to burn it right away). Using HcEncoder, Muxman and ImgBurn. Still available for download DV avi helper.zi . It might not work with Win 11 or 10, also Avisynth and Cedocida dv codec needed to be installed. Come to think of it, I could use portable vaporsynth now and make it portable, make it a standalone app for latest windows without avisynth installation , but that Cedocida DV codec or other might be needed. Except it was frame serving avi from NLE, but that complicate things.
    Last edited by _Al_; 26th Jun 2022 at 16:25.
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  30. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    at the beginning it was WMV, remeber?
    Nope. Worse. RealVideo. Awful quality.
    ASF (pre-WMV) was awful.
    QT not horrid.
    VCDs were better compared to all, but it often looked lousy. (Remember KVCD? Hmm, Join Date 2011, maybe before your time?)
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