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  1. IMO, it is too expensive for a dongle. The bundled app deinterlaces into 25p/30p, but AFAIK the dongle passes through interlaced video. I don't know whether it allows to capture Macrovision-protected video. I don't know whether it has any TBC-like functionality.

    I would buy a used Dazzle DVC100/101/103/107 (video) on eBay for $15. You don't need bundled software, you can use VirtualDub or whatever capturing program you like. Drivers for Windows are available, not sure whether you can use it on Mac. It allows to capture Macrovision-protected movies. It does not have TBC-like functionality, in my limited experience tapes recorded in SP mode look fine, some tapes recorded in EP/LP mode show skewing/flagging. A/V sync is OK, it does not drift. Overall quality is decent for the money, if somewhat noisy.
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  2. Member
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    Safest, guaranteed quality (both capture and tested) devices are available from lordsmurf at digitalfaq.com http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/marketplace/8253-sale-ati-600-a.html

    Everything else is a crapshoot, especially on eBay and the the ElGato is called the ElCrappo for SD video capture.
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  3. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Your question is vague. Even more so if you have a Mac and have not made that clear (even if your link suggests that)

    If you do have a Mac then I suggest you contact admin to have your topic moved to the dedicated Mac forum where you should have more specific advice.
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  4. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Your question is vague. Even more so if you have a Mac and have not made that clear (even if your link suggests that)

    If you do have a Mac then I suggest you contact admin to have your topic moved to the dedicated Mac forum where you should have more specific advice.
    I have PC and Mac.
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  5. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    Everything else is a crapshoot
    False. There are at least 2 budget cards available on the market today providing good results: IOData GV-USB and Hauppauge USB-Live 2. Both need lineTBC correction in the VCR or adding a DVD-R recorder in passthrough mode.

    edit: lordsmurf cards for sale need lineTBC correction as well
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  6. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Ok. Most of us can only relate our own experience from the device we use. After all 'Best' is a most objective/subjective word.

    Rather than re-invent the wheel, I would suggest you take some time out and read previous topics that cover the Q. And one other thing. What may work for a legacy OS (such as Windows 7 - which I still use) may not have driver support for Windows 10/11 which is notorious for 'killing' older devices.
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  7. Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    There are at least 2 budget cards available on the market today providing good results: IOData GV-USB and Hauppauge USB-Live 2.
    I've heard good things about the IOData. At $50, it is almost twice cheaper than the Elgato. Not sure whether it is much better than the ubiquitous Dazzle - neither have any TBC-like features.
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  8. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    Not sure whether it is much better than the ubiquitous Dazzle
    I never had a Dazzle, but at that price is surely worth a try
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  9. Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    IMO, it is too expensive for a dongle. The bundled app deinterlaces into 25p/30p, but AFAIK the dongle passes through interlaced video. I don't know whether it allows to capture Macrovision-protected video. I don't know whether it has any TBC-like functionality.

    I would buy a used Dazzle DVC100/101/103/107 (video) on eBay for $15. You don't need bundled software, you can use VirtualDub or whatever capturing program you like. Drivers for Windows are available, not sure whether you can use it on Mac. It allows to capture Macrovision-protected movies. It does not have TBC-like functionality, in my limited experience tapes recorded in SP mode look fine, some tapes recorded in EP/LP mode show skewing/flagging. A/V sync is OK, it does not drift. Overall quality is decent for the money, if somewhat noisy.
    What about this Dazzle? New from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Dazzle-DVD-Recorder-VHS-Converter/dp/B00EAS14KI/
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  10. Originally Posted by boolian2 View Post
    I mentioned it in my video. I don't know much about it. Some say it uses a different chipset than older models. But different or new is not always better. I did not feel like spending $30 to try it out (it was on Black Friday sale, normally it is $50; the "regular" $70 price they show now is just to make their discount to look better).
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  11. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by boolian2 View Post
    I would go with lollo's suggestion, I have read positive results from those two devices here and at other forums.
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  12. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Originally Posted by boolian2 View Post
    I would go with lollo's suggestion, I have read positive results from those two devices here and at other forums.
    It looks like people are using those with OBS, which is the software I've been using so that's good. Are they UVC? Does anyone know how well Retrotink with a HDMI capture works?

    https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/retrotink-2x-pro
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  13. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    No, use vdub or AmarecTV. Analog video and retro gaming are two different things in nature and they require different tools.
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  14. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    It looks like people are using those with OBS
    No. VirtualDub or AmarecTV with IOData GV-USB and Hauppauge USB-Live 2. If on Windows 10 only AmarecTV for Hauppauge USB-Live 2.

    OBS has changed from its original main function of "live stream recording software", but, from oln/hodgey, here the best explaination why OBS is not recommended as analog capture software : http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/12778-dv-vs-sdi-2.html#post84882
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  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by boolian2 View Post
    I'm looking into this one Elgato
    No.
    Elgato earned the nickname Elcrapo for their video capture cards.

    Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    I don't know whether it has any TBC-like functionality.
    It does not.

    Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    I would buy a used Dazzle DVC100/101/103/107
    Bad advice. That's an overall lousy card. The only thing good you can say about it is that Easycaps are worse.

    Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    Everything else is a crapshoot
    False. There are at least 2 budget cards available on the market today providing good results: IOData GV-USB and Hauppauge USB-Live 2. Both need lineTBC correction in the VCR or adding a DVD-R recorder in passthrough mode.
    edit: lordsmurf cards for sale need lineTBC correction as well
    This isn't about TBC.
    Capture cards are about levels/values being good (not abusing the signal quality), AGC, and some others.

    The advice to "buy a Hauppauge" card is not good. Why? Because Hauppauge is really bad about recycling model names and numbers. The "USB Live2" card has multiple iterations, and you have no idea which it is without buying it, using it, sometimes tearing it apart. I liked this card early on, at least 10 years ago. But at least 5 years ago, problems were reported and confirmed. This is also true of the VC500, and some others. Long lived cards, production changes, and companies that do not inform you of the changes.

    IOData GV-USB is a Japanese card, and that has some drawbacks. To acquire, to resell, etc. I'm also not yet convinced it properly does NTSC captures (not NTSC-J, which is clearly does being Japanese). PAL users seem satisfied, but it doesn't automatically translate to good NTSC performance.

    Originally Posted by boolian2 View Post
    OBS,
    Retrotink with a HDMI capture works?
    No. Video games are not analog video tapes. Wrong tool.

    As mentioned by hodgey (and myself on another thread there), OBS uses data differently, from the system display layers, not the card itself. That matters for multiple reasons.
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  16. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    This isn't about TBC. Capture cards are about levels/values being good (not abusing the signal quality), AGC, and some others.
    We know, so what? I was just saying that a lineTBC, and a Y/C signal, is needed when capturing with USB-Live 2, GV-USB or one of your ATI USB 600.

    The "USB Live2" card has multiple iterations, and you have no idea which it is without buying it, using it, sometimes tearing it apart. I liked this card early on, at least 10 years ago. But at least 5 years ago, problems were reported and confirmed.
    You are the only one saying this, and repeating it since years. As I told you once on your forums in digitalfaq, I know many user of that card across several years and what you say is simply not true.

    edit:
    IOData GV-USB ... I'm also not yet convinced it properly does NTSC captures (not NTSC-J, which is clearly does being Japanese).
    Do a search and you will find examples for NTSC as well.

    P.S. there is no need to lower other cards to support your sales, we all know your cards are good. Just are not the only option.
    Last edited by lollo; 15th Jun 2022 at 16:34.
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  17. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    I would buy a used Dazzle DVC100/101/103/107
    Bad advice. That's an overall lousy card. The only thing good you can say about it is that Easycaps are worse.
    A very sound technical advice supported by facts, as always. @boolian2, feel free to judge for yourself.
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  18. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    feel free to judge for yourself.
    Off topic: ConsumerDV, are you sure you do not need a lineTBC?

    your capture:
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    generic low res youtube:
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  19. Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    Off topic: ConsumerDV, are you sure you do not need a lineTBC?
    Do I need it in this particular case? No. Would this video benefit from it? Yes. This case (YouTube link) is much worse: not only there is skewing, but there is very pronounced field jitter. In this case I would really want something more stable.

    Some people have very high standards, like Scott. My basic requirements for watchable video are as follows:
    • no combing or ghosting
    • correct aspect ratio
    • correct frame rate
    • correct black level
    The first two are the most important, really. Black level, eh, I can live with incorrect one as long as there are no immediately noticeable blown highlights or crushed blacks. Things like color, geometry, noise-free image, better deinterlacing than "bob", etc. are nice to have but less important.

    I commented on your recent video (YouTube link), and you explained, that when you see "minor interlaced problems on some added effects while the main video is not interlaced", you prefer to "not deinterlace, because doing it on a "progressive" material will introduce a loss of quality." Well, I would trade loss of quality on progressive material to get rid of combing.

    If I really cared, I would deinterlace scenes with interlacing separately and combine them in NLE. Attached are two clips for a similar, but different use case: 50 fps music video with titles. The titles are bobbing, so I deinterlaced this section with "weave" and laid it over the main 50p video. (There is macroblocking, but this was in the original video that I got.)
    Image Attached Files
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  20. Now looking at the two clips I attached, I see minor interlacing inside the titles. I was lazy, so I overlaid the whole big rectangle, I did not mask inside it. I am sure you would notice this and rub it to my face Oh, well. In some cases I guess I can tolerate interlacing too

    Regarding Elgato, here is another clip (YouTube video), not deinterlaced, but what is more interesting, it has the same skew to the left as in my post above. Hmm, is it a "feature" of Elgato?
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  21. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Musikladen from studio Bremen, had good video quality those days.
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  22. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    No, use vdub or AmarecTV. Analog video and retro gaming are two different things in nature and they require different tools.
    I largely agree with your main point, just butting in here because this is a topic of particular interest to me -- Retro game /streaming/ is a very different beast requiring tools that render and process and stream in real time and are decidedly not made for pixel aspect ratios that aren't 1:1. Also the priorities are not quite the same of course, either. But retro gaming in general (for example, recording raw gameplay footage for a high quality video) has a lot more in common with analog video archiving than the gaming community realizes; IMO VirtualDub and other workflows recommended on this forum are awesome tools for that.

    Sorry for being a bit pedantic here, I just think there is a lot of overlap between the two. The distinction is more about livestreaming vs offline digitizing, IMO.

    [/gets off soap box]
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    Originally Posted by Lordsmurf
    IOData GV-USB is a Japanese card, and that has some drawbacks. To acquire, to resell, etc. I'm also not yet convinced it properly does NTSC captures (not NTSC-J, which is clearly does being Japanese). PAL users seem satisfied, but it doesn't automatically translate to good NTSC performance.
    LS, do you actually have one? In my view, "acquiring or reselling" are not "drawbacks" of this stick. It is a cinch to set up, far, far easier than trying to set up and run AVISynth for example (heaven forbid QTGMC), which you guys champion.
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    @lordsmurf

    Now you're really scaring me! I was just thinking, I should yell: lordsmurf! lordsmurf! lordsmurf! before I checked this thread and *poof* you're already here! Spoooookkkkkkky!
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    Originally Posted by ArcanaXIX View Post
    But retro gaming in general (for example, recording raw gameplay footage for a high quality video) has a lot more in common with analog video archiving than the gaming community realizes; IMO VirtualDub and other workflows recommended on this forum are awesome tools for that.
    Sure you can use the same software to capture but that's not the problem, Video gaming signal is stable and does not require line or frame TBC, at least no line TBC required, Video gaming signal is better captured in 640x480 the PC standard resolution, Luma and chroma levels are different, The de-interlacing process is different, In other words retro gaming capture is more forgiving, Analog video is a pain.
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  26. Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    @lordsmurf

    Now you're really scaring me! I was just thinking, I should yell: lordsmurf! lordsmurf! lordsmurf! before I checked this thread and *poof* you're already here! Spoooookkkkkkky!
    One might think that you are his alter ego, having two out of four of your recent messages linking to his forum, and either referring to him or to his forum or to his merchandise or summoning him directly in seven out of seventy four of your last messages, including friendly advertisement like this...

    Originally Posted by lingyi
    PM lordsmurf as he may have some machines and capture cards for sale. This is the best and only guaranteed way to be sure you'll getting top grade equipment. Be advised that doing it right isn't cheap. He has a complete top grade setup for $2955 at digitalfaq.com http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/marketplace/8057-sale-complete-workflow.html But, as he says, "Buy it, use it, resell it!" Reselling lordsmurf approved equipment will get you top dollar return.
    ...but maybe this is just an expression of pure unadulterated love.
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    Pure love!

    I've posted about this before. In my early days here, before my current join date, I thought he was a cranky, opinionated, know-it-all and criticized him. As I learned more, from others and him, I learned that he's truly passionate about video capture and far, far more often correct than wrong. IMO, he's mellowed a lot over the years, is still opinionated and recently acknowledged at digitalfaq.com that he's [not] a know-it-all about all things, he is very knowledgeable and confident about what he posts about.

    I often post about what he has available, both products and services, because he usually doesn't do that himself.

    This doesn't have anything to do with his knowledge, but my admiration for and appreciation of him as a person. A number of years ago, he was hospitalized and not expected to pull through. He posted about his ordeal at DFAQ several years later. He now suffers from MS and often struggles to continue his work, only part of which is maintaining and posting at DFAQ as well as posting here. He's disappeared from both forums for periods of time over the recent years and only later disclosed that he was suffering great physical difficulties.

    When he was unexpectedly forced to the hospital a few years ago and wasn't sure if he's make it out, he made the effort to make the announcement at DFAQ so those who had pending orders and work wouldn't wonder why he wasn't responding. So every post he makes here and elsewhere is greatly appreciated because I know (through PM with him), how much of a struggle is often is for him.

    This is the type of person he is and why he absolutely has gained my love, admiration and respect. ls, you old blue grouch! There, I feel better! LOL!

    Stick around a few years and hopefully you'll better understand and appreciate what I've posted!
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  28. Member
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    I liken forums to a room full of people with a common interest of all levels of knowledge. Unless you've been a lurker standing outside, listening to and understanding the context of the conversations, coming in off the street and making assumptions about the backstories of those speaking is a major faux pas.
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  29. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    My basic requirements for watchable video are as follows:
    • no combing or ghosting
    • correct aspect ratio
    • correct frame rate
    • correct black level
    ... geometry... nice to have but less important.
    Amazing. In reality, a frame with distorded geometry is a major problem for a capture.

    Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    Well, I would trade loss of quality on progressive material to get rid of combing.
    This is a question of preferences, I am fine with it, so I won't argue on that.

    But, on top of all, do not forget that a not optimal post-processing like leaving interlaced frames or residual combing can be fixed at any time, while a capture with a distorted frame cannot be corrected.

    Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    If I really cared, I would deinterlace scenes with interlacing separately and combine them in NLE ...
    Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    Now looking at the two clips I attached, I see minor interlacing inside the titles. I am sure you would notice this and rub it to my face
    It was not my intention, you do and undo all by yourself.

    If you want to try with AviSynth, when you have a mix of interlaced and "progressive" frames, you can use the following, tuning the parameters for your specific case (this example outputs video at the same frame rate). Probably easier than with your NLE (this reminds me another discussion we had )

    Code:
     TDeint(mode=0, full=false, cthresh=9, chroma=false, MI=16, edeint=QTGMC(FPSDivisor=2), emask=TMM(mode=0), slow=2
    edit: quote adjusted
    Last edited by lollo; 16th Jun 2022 at 02:42.
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