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  1. Hello, all -- I have a really strange phenomenon going on that I would absolutely apprecaite any guidance any of you have on this:

    Ok, so, regarding several tapes (seems to be regular Video8s not, Hi8 tapes) I have from the late 1990s/early 2000s: Whenever I play the footage through any actual videoHi8 VCR (I have three different Sony ones, one straight from Japan), every time I'm seen walking (or if I move too quickly, like.. if I turn too fast ) in the footage, these physical motions seen on tape create this wobble effect on the video itself -- it's the weirdest thing, it's as if the tape somehow picked up on my physical movements to where the VCRs all seem to violently react (with a very jerky screen) just during those moments that I'm walking/stomping/turning too quickly. Otherwise, if in the footage I'm being still, they play fine.

    However! Having said that, when I play the same tape on the original 30-year-old Sony camcorder that I still have, the image (while very snowy) does not do this, and the same walking/stomping/turning movements seem to not happen at all ONLY when the tapes are played through the camcorder!

    I've tried testing whether the culprit was somehow RCA vs S-Video, didn't make a difference. I even bought a Radio Shack Archer Destabilizer based on a Redditor's suggestion (which is actually a very cool machine does clears up a lot of the snowy static) but does not seem to fix this "wobbling" effect. It's as if the camcorder has some sort of ability to self-correct this jerky wobbling video that the three VCRs seem to not be able to do (?)

    So, the question is, what is the technical difference in playing these tapes through my really old camcorder and playing them through any of the Hi8 VCRs, and is there anything you folks can think of that I can do to fix (what I'm guessing ) is some sort of sensitivity problem? Ultimately I'd love to use the VCRs instead of the old clunky camcorder, but on some tapes (where there's lots of movement, running, etc) this effect makes them completely unwatchable. Hm!

    Here is a quick 12 second video that demonstrates this phenomenon, attached.. the wobbling starts when I start to walk down the hallway about 7 seconds in.

    Thank you so much for your time and wisdom on this....!
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  2. I don't see a wobble but I see a ton of dropouts or errors. Looks like digital noise almost. The prevailing opinion is that the camcorders actually play better and more reliably than the complex VCR style decks. Whens the last time all this gear was properly cleaned? Assuming the original recorder is in good shape it will always play the tape the best.
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  3. Nicholasserra: Thanks for the response; the funny thing is, the three VCRs are from two separate Ebayers who both have mentioned in their listings that they've taken great effort in replacing the heads and ensuring they are in excellent condition - whereas the camcorder has literally been stuffed in a drawer for 25 years, I've never ever taken it apart to clean it (nor have I ever cleaned it in general) .. Unfortunately, though, even though when played through the camcorder it doesn't encounter the motion problem I've raised, the quality is pretty bad and the audio sounds like an old film projector.

    When the tapes are played through the VCRs, the picture is very clean and perfect, but only when the footage is still. Once I start to walk around, it goes crazy with the vertical-hold-looking stuff.
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  4. I see you're comparing a computer capture to a TV screen.

    What happens when you play the ebay VCRs on the TV?

    I assume you thought of that, but if you didn't, the capture card likely can't handle the signal, and that's another rabbit hole we can go down.
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  5. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Could be the fact that it has (an early version of) a rolling electronic shutter, combined with interlace artifacts.

    Examples?


    Scott
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  6. You have a common problem. When the camcorder is moving the spin rate of helical scan head varies or mistracks slightly. That causes time base errors during playback. TV's are pretty good at adapting to that but many capture devices are not. You need a time base corrector or a capture device that's better and handling poor time base.

    And yes, it looks like the computer display isn't being deinterlaced whereas the TV display is.
    Last edited by jagabo; 4th May 2022 at 10:34.
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  7. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    You have a common problem. When the camcorder is moving the spin rate of helical scan head varies or mistracks slightly. That causes time base errors during playback. TV's are pretty good at adapting to that but many capture devices are not. You need a time base corrector or a capture device that's better and handling poor time base.

    And yes, it looks like the computer display isn't being deinterlaced whereas the TV display is.
    Indeed, I didn't mean to confuse the issue by showing one example on a TV and one on the computer monitor, but, yes, you are right, when being viewed on the TV, the problem doesn't happen no matter which machine is playing it. I suppose I got caught up in this mystery because when played back through the camcorder it doesn't happen, and that made no technical sense to me. I see what you're saying, though, and I'm guessing that the camcorder for whatever reason is good at adapting to these errors moreso than the VCRs?

    (The interesting thing is that even when the VCR output is run through the Archer deinterlacer device, some fuzz goes away but the problem persists... but I suppose deinterlacing is not the problem needing to be corrected, here, right?)

    I did look for TBCs on Ebay and Amazon and they seem very hard to come by -- Do you have a capture device that you recommend that is known to handle these types of things well?

    Thanks again for your insight!
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  8. Member DB83's Avatar
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    The odd thing is that even from the PC-monitor the video appears 'filmed' (or maybe it is screen-captured) rather than captured.

    So what capture device are you using to get that image on to a PC-monitor and what software are you using to display it ?. I just hope that OBS is not part of the chain.


    If you are using a capture device then you really should upload a captured sample since there is so much other issue it is hard to determine, other than time-base issues, what is at fault here.
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  9. Originally Posted by LObsTeR View Post
    I did look for TBCs on Ebay and Amazon and they seem very hard to come by -- Do you have a capture device that you recommend that is known to handle these types of things well?
    Try an old Panasonic (some other brands too) DVD recorder like the ES10 or ES15. Don't record on DVD, just pass the signal through the device. You should be able to find one for around US$100.
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  10. Also hope the deinterlacer isn't part of the capture chain. Capture first, deinterlace later.
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