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  1. Y'all may still remember me from a year-or-so ago. I have been busy with other things. Well, I would like to again try to covert my dozens of old Hi-8 tapes to digital.

    My problem still lies in finding a decent capture device. I have tried both the Dazzle and the Hauppauge, and both crapped-out on me after just one tape. But then, what can I expect for 40 bucks? I have a Panasonic ES-15, that I use for basic TBC. The Dazzle wouldn't even work with the ES-15 (any ideas?). The Hauppauge couldn't handle the higher dynamic range of Hi-8 (I suspect that was the cause of the burn-out). That, before both quit completely. Eventually, I had to just set it all aside, to avoid getting frustrated.

    So, I figured that I would check-in, to see if any better capture devices had hit the market. Any suggestions? I don't mind paying more (within reason). I would like one where i don't have to mess with the video levels 9or the level adj is internal in the driver) Right now, the only other option I can find is the Elgato. But, the scathing reviews have kept me from bothering with that one.
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  2. As much as it is frowned upon by many regulars on this forum, converting Hi8 to digital in camera is a less error-prone and a smoother affair (provided you have a Digital8 camcorder that can play Hi8, and a Firewire port on your computer).
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  3. well and i know some will not agree but i talk from daily usage ..... my black magic intensity 4k pro has not let me down at all and the quality on all captures are very very good quality wise .....
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  4. Member pchan's Avatar
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    It may not be a cheap option but it will give you the best capture quality. Trying getting a Digital8 camcorder that will play back your Hi8 tapes. Ensure the format(NTSC or PAL) that your Hi8 tapes are recorded. Your need a Digital8 camcorder and a firewire card for desktop or a laptop that comes with a firewire port.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394
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    "crapped out", "burned out"
    I'm not sure what you mean by those terms.
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    Originally Posted by anachronon View Post
    Y'all may still remember me from a year-or-so ago. I have been busy with other things. Well, I would like to again try to covert my dozens of old Hi-8 tapes to digital.

    My problem still lies in finding a decent capture device. I have tried both the Dazzle and the Hauppauge, and both crapped-out on me after just one tape. But then, what can I expect for 40 bucks? I have a Panasonic ES-15, that I use for basic TBC. The Dazzle wouldn't even work with the ES-15 (any ideas?). The Hauppauge couldn't handle the higher dynamic range of Hi-8 (I suspect that was the cause of the burn-out). That, before both quit completely. Eventually, I had to just set it all aside, to avoid getting frustrated.

    So, I figured that I would check-in, to see if any better capture devices had hit the market. Any suggestions? I don't mind paying more (within reason). I would like one where i don't have to mess with the video levels 9or the level adj is internal in the driver) Right now, the only other option I can find is the Elgato. But, the scathing reviews have kept me from bothering with that one.
    I'd be more worried about a faulty USB port on your capture PC being the source of your capture device failures than the dynamic range of the output from your capture source.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
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  7. For s-video input, the IO-Data GV USB2 works pretty well when combined with something with TBC like the ES15, and works well with modern computers.

    Alternatively, if using the ES15 you have the option of using the component outputs on it to use something modern that lacks composite/s-video if that makes it easier.

    I don't know which dazzle you used, older ones can be a bit hit and miss on modern windows due to lack of driver support.

    And yeah, dynamic range breaking a capture card seems very unlikely. Only reason I could see for a capture card to break from bad video input would be if there was somehow something seriously wrong with the device outputting video causing current or excessively high voltage on the output, in which case it would cause issues for any capture card.
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  8. Sorry to take so long to get back to everyone. Some personal matters came-up, that monopolized all of my time.

    On the question of the dynamic range, and the Hauppauge having catastrophic failure, this is what happened: The Hauppauge, out-of-the-box, had way too much contrast. Both the shadows and the highlights were being crushed. I decided to us a a proc-amp, that came highly recommended here. It took quite a bit of tweaking to get the contrast close to acceptable. I was pushing the proc amp to its limits. Just when I was getting close, the Hauppauge image just went black. I could only see some blue shadows of highlights moving around in the image---whether with the proc-amp, or without. Defective unit?

    On the Dazzle, it had sync issues from the very start. Without the ES-15, I had many dropouts and blue screens. With the ES-15, the Dazzle will not sync at all.

    OLN mentioned using the ES-15's component output. Would it be a good idea to convert S-video to Component? Has anyone here gone that route, and how well did that work? If I were to explore that option, can anyone recommend what/which capture hardware?
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  9. The ES15 and pretty much any tbc/dvd-recorder and similar will convert to digital component form (i.e brightness + two channels that are the colors minus brightness) internally, so it's not really an extra conversion to use the component out. It's just skipping encoding the color back to S-Video. (Some dvd-recorders don't let you output the native resolution/framerate over component so it may not be a good alternative for all dvd-recorders. I'm pretty sure the ES15 does though, whether it's the American or international version.)

    I don't have a specific suggestion for hardware as both the cards I've used for component capture (blackmagic intensity shuttle usb and avermedia u3) have been rather janky to use. Just noting that it's an option, as some newer capture cards feature only component + hdmi and lack s-video/composite input.
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    I recently captured all my Hi8 tapes from many years ago. Used the composite and audio outputs of my Sony Camera into a H.264 PRO Encoder from Blackmagic Design
    and used Media Express to monitor the capturing process. It worked very well with minimal loss of quality This process uses an USB 2.0 port. into the PC.
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  11. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by videofilter View Post
    I recently captured all my Hi8 tapes from many years ago. Used the composite and audio outputs of my Sony Camera into a H.264 PRO Encoder from Blackmagic Design
    and used Media Express to monitor the capturing process. It worked very well with minimal loss of quality This process uses an USB 2.0 port. into the PC.
    Hi8 tapes over composite? What a waste, all that glory of 400 luma resolution went down the composite drain.
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    If you know of any way to play Hi8 tapes over anything other than composite. please share. Components, S-Video, Firewire?
    I already had a Sony Camcorder and didn't want to buy a different, used camera with S-Video or an old Hi8 playback unit.
    Last edited by videofilter; 26th Apr 2022 at 10:47.
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  13. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Actually both Hi8 and Video8 should be captured over S-Video but for Hi8 the difference is very noticeable compared to composite output.
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  14. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by videofilter View Post
    If you know of any way to play Hi8 tapes over anything other than composite. please share. Components, S-Video, Firewire?
    I already had a Sony Camcorder and didn't want to buy a different, used camera with S-Video or an old Hi8 playback unit.
    As far as I know, there are only a handful of models capable of Hi8 playback that don't feature S-Video output. Which model of Sony camcorder did you use?
    My YouTube channel with little clips: vhs-decode, comparing TBC, etc.
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    Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    Originally Posted by videofilter View Post
    If you know of any way to play Hi8 tapes over anything other than composite. please share. Components, S-Video, Firewire?
    I already had a Sony Camcorder and didn't want to buy a different, used camera with S-Video or an old Hi8 playback unit.
    As far as I know, there are only a handful of models capable of Hi8 playback that don't feature S-Video output. Which model of Sony camcorder did you use?
    I just looked at the model number and it is a Sony CCD-FX340 and it's actually a Video 8, Not a Hi8. It only has Composite output and Mono Audio.

    I understand that S-Video would produce better quality video capture but, this is what I have. Another factor is that I used the Black Magic H.264 PRO encoder in the process which made the recordings a lot more manageable in size. I tried it it in two different ways. 1) composite out of the camera directly into the PRO recorder and 2) composite to an HDMI upscaler and the output of the upscaler to the PRO recorder. Maybe I will try capturing it with S-Video one day, if I come across an inexpensive Hi8 player with S-Video output.
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  16. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    Maybe I will try capturing it with S-Video one day, if I come across an inexpensive Hi8 player with S-Video output.
    And that day also capture Y/C directly with a lossless codec: no real time encoding, no black magic, no HDMI upscaler
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  17. Originally Posted by oln View Post
    The ES15 and pretty much any tbc/dvd-recorder and similar will convert to digital component form (i.e brightness + two channels that are the colors minus brightness) internally, so it's not really an extra conversion to use the component out. It's just skipping encoding the color back to S-Video. (Some dvd-recorders don't let you output the native resolution/framerate over component so it may not be a good alternative for all dvd-recorders. I'm pretty sure the ES15 does though, whether it's the American or international version.)

    I don't have a specific suggestion for hardware as both the cards I've used for component capture (blackmagic intensity shuttle usb and avermedia u3) have been rather janky to use. Just noting that it's an option, as some newer capture cards feature only component + hdmi and lack s-video/composite input.
    Can anyone elaborate on this? I seem to be out of options.
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    Contact lordsmurf as he usually has known good, tested. lordsmurf approved capture devices for sale.

    Oh wait...I'll summon him..."lordsmurf, lordsmurf, lordsmurf!" LOL
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  19. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    You can try to use the Delock analog to HDMI scaler, and use a digital recorder, or HDMI capture dongle, i'm experimenting with that now, and have good results for what the resolution of VHS makes possible, you don't need a TBC, or function, because it's already digitized.
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  20. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    you don't need a TBC, or function,
    A lineTBC, and eventually a frameTBC correction, is always needed; in this case between player and that (looking to its spec, probably crap) hdmi upscaler.
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    In my case, I have about 60 8mm/Hi-8 tapes. With the original Sony camcorder I used to record the tapes, I played back the video into an H.264 real time Blackmagic encoder and used Media Express to capture. The only thing I wished I had, was a playback camera or Hi-8 player that has S-Video output. My original camera only has composite. The advantage of the H.264 encoder is that compresses the video and makes the files reasonable in size.
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  22. If a low-band eight-millimeter camcorder could play high-band recordings, it would be better compatibility compared to VHS/SVHS.
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  23. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    you don't need a TBC, or function,
    A lineTBC, and eventually a frameTBC correction, is always needed; in this case between player and that (looking to its spec, probably crap) hdmi upscaler.
    That's only valid for analog capturing, and that's not what i'm talking about, i have this working, so player needed, scaler with aspect ratio setting option, and HDMI to USB dongle, no other old hardware needed.
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  24. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    The source of OP is an analog tape. Once played, the input to the (useless) hdmi upscaler is an analog signal.

    BTW, OP had not lineTBC correction in his workflow, then added a ES-15. Replacing the capture card with the (useless) hdmi upscaler does not change anything, except if it was a wonderful new device with lineTBC (and eventually frameTBC) capabilities
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  25. Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    you don't need a TBC, or function,
    A lineTBC, and eventually a frameTBC correction, is always needed; in this case between player and that (looking to its spec, probably crap) hdmi upscaler.
    Snotty attitude like this hurts this community. Neither line TBC nor frame TBC is always needed. Desired, yes, for content with noticeable defects. The thread about TBS-ish capture cards was started for a reason. When TBC was invented in the early 1970s, it was about preserving timing and geometry, not about buffering frames. TBC was particularly useful when editing on tape, without it after several dubs the video would lose synchronization. Frame TBC is a later invention and is a luxury.

    Regarding the HDMI converter, have you looked at the specs? Is it crap? I googled it. At least it has composite and component inputs, but not SVideo. Has HDMI and VGA output. Clearly, this is a device intended for presentations in conference rooms. It outputs HD only. I have a similar box, but it can not just convert, but also save onto a USB storage. These boxes may have one or more issues like these:
    • They always upscale, so you don't get native resolution
    • They always deinterlace, so you either get 50p/60p (better), or 25p/30p (worse)
    • They always create a 16:9 output; many of such boxes stretch 4:3 to 16:9; my box has a 16:9 / 4:3 switch, so the resulting video has 4:3 active area pillarboxed in 16:9; the 4:3 area may not be exactly 4:3
    • They often have issues with levels, that is, they are designed for "computer" levels.
    • They often have issues with 59.94 vs 60.00 rate, but this is not important for "PAL" region.

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  26. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Oh boy! I'm staying out of it.
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  27. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    Snotty attitude like this hurts this community.
    I was not snotty, but compliant with analog capture requirements. Your "new expert" opinions are not accurate, and hurts this community!

    Regarding the HDMI converter, have you looked at the specs?
    Yes. You also did, reported the issues (forced upscale and deinterlace), and just did not realize the consequences. Inadequate for analog captures.

    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Oh boy! I'm staying out of it.
    Me too, from now. Will just wait to watch some analog capture samples using that worflow


    edit: quote adjusted
    Last edited by lollo; 30th May 2022 at 02:35.
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  28. Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    Regarding the HDMI converter, have you looked at the specs?
    Yes. You also did, reported the issues (forced upscale and deinterlace), and just did not realize the consequences. Inadequate for analog captures.
    Hmm. I did realize it because I listed the issues. "Inadequate" or "crap"? Even if it were crap, it is just not very polite to tell someone that something he owns is crap.
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  29. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    Even if it were crap, it is just not very polite to tell someone that something he owns is crap.
    Correct, I apologize for having used the wrong word.
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  30. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Btw . the VGA is an input, yes, the disadvantage is 4:3 into 16:9 with pillars on the sides, for the money i think it's doing a good job, when you think that other replacing hardware is hard to come by and getting rare, i have another (cheap) scaler that does the conversion in the correct pixel size and aspect ratio, but this is only when i use component from the ES35V, so that's an option only few people have, new people to this, underestimate analog conversion, and don't have the experience or energy using the special video tools software, or dont want to spent money on TBC equipment, so i guess it's finding a balance between all of those things, i'm pleased with my results sofar, i will do some experiments, and compare the results.
    finding the correct scaler for composite is hard, my guess is, the way the composite signal is build, making it hard to convert, component is a better option in my case, s-video would also be good because an external device can do a better decoding job like in de case with component video.
    This Delock scaler has options to set RGB levels, 3 contrast levels,aspect ratio, 720/1080 50/60p, audio volume strength, and sound equalizer settings.
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 30th May 2022 at 09:01.
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