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  1. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Ok. Seems that the reporting of DVCPRO, which I have seen myself as mentioned, is a false dawn.

    One can have progressive video flagged as interlaced but not the reverse. My suspicion is that the importing program has something to do with the conflicting info and has materially altered what was originally on the tape.


    Is that ancient MS prog the recc way to get video via usb on a tape-based system ? One would think that other manuf. would have followed suit if this was a truly viable proposition. Interlaced video should be captured as interlaced. I'll accept Alwyn's opinion here that what one now gets is not interlaced and it sure looks that way with my one good eye (deinterlacing turned off on playback)
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  2. Few notes about the cat video of post #25.
    The colors look washed out to me.
    Check the levels: Black is too high (greyish), white Y=255 clipped => RGB are out-of-gamut, loosing details.
    See for example frames around #280: The leaves of the tree on the bottom right corner are overexposed, masking the details.
    A little tweaking (e.g. reduce contrast + saturation, shift black level down) will help IMO.
    Last edited by Sharc; 13th Apr 2022 at 03:41.
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  3. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    It's digital DV not analog, Changing levels requires re-encoding, DV streaming software don't have the ability to alter a live stream on the fly.
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  4. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    It's digital DV not analog, Changing levels requires re-encoding, DV streaming software don't have the ability to alter a live stream on the fly.
    Unfortunately yes, it would require re-encoding. But re-encoding will happen anyway if post-processing in an NLE is planned.

    The camera could have done better, I think. The cat sould not look gray, and the bright parts should not be heavily clipped.
    I know it happens though.
    The colored areas on the picture on the right shows out-of-gamut pixels. This means usually loss of details.
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    Last edited by Sharc; 13th Apr 2022 at 04:01.
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  5. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Yes but the subject here is about whether a USB port can emulate firewire and stream DV without any problems, it's not about the shooting skills, Or maybe I just don't understand your point.
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  6. Take it as a sidenote. The picture looked so milky washed out to my eyes - despite or in addition to the 'trusted reviews' of post #27 - that I couldn't resist, apparently. Sorry for going off-topic. Never mind.
    Last edited by Sharc; 13th Apr 2022 at 05:12.
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  7. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    Sorry for going off-topic
    It's ok! I understand dellsam34 point, but we always like your expert point of view
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  8. @DB83, I am not in the position to defend the "ancient MS prog". As for my fragment, I shot it in 25p Digital Cinema mode because I din't care for interlaced. AFAIK, SD DV does not support native progressive stream, so it employs pulldown.

    @Sharc, Digital Cinema mode on the GS500 uses a different gamma profile. Attached is the Panasonic's picture that I pulled from Panasonic's Brazilian website for my GS500 review on YouTube, but I cannot find this info there anymore, I guess they finally deleted it, or my search skills deteriorated in the last half a year. The GS500 has just two gamma profiles, and cine-gamma is automatically turned on when shooting in Digital Cinema mode. As you can see, it raises near-blacks. As for near-whites, you can see it goes straight without knee. Professional camcorders have more options. For example, the DVX100 has separate settings for overall gamma profile and for the knee (I was thinking of buying one a couple of years ago when they dropped below $200 on eBay but the consumer-grade GS500 has a better sensor than the professional DVX, so I did not bother; interesting that old camcorders went up in price recently - another comeback fad looms?). As long as the components are below 255, they are not lost. This mode is intended for editing, so the levels can be adjusted to taste, in particular gray-ish blacks are meant to bring up details from dark areas.

    I did not mean this thread to be about Panasonic's cinematic techniques, though, but rather a collection of camcorders that can output DV (or HDV, but I don't think such camcorders exist) via USB.

    ~ Michael.
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  9. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    The reason I asked, and still ask, for a direct from camera sample - and to clarify - with no third-party trim/encode was to, hopefully, elimanate any doubts. Surely if you shot @24 fps progressive then that is what we should see in the report.
    No - because the old types of DV cameras do not shoot 24pN (native) progressive. They majority had CCD sensors and interlaced scan, and interlaced recording. For "24p modes" they use 3:2 hard pulldown (I think canon calls it pF) , or some pro models have 2:3:3:2 advanced pulldown . Think of it as 23.976p content organized in 59.94 fields/s with field repeats . When you re-organize it , drop the duplicates (remove pulldown), you get back 23.976p

    So mediainfo will always say 29.97 interlaced for those streams , even if you shot "24p" , because mediainfo does not read content, it only examines flags and how the stream was encoded



    If this is indeed a direct from camera sample then we simply can not trust what mediainfo tells us.
    You never could trust mediainfo - only some parts of the information might be accurate, or you have to take in context


    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    One can have progressive video flagged as interlaced but not the reverse. My suspicion is that the importing program has something to do with the conflicting info and has materially altered what was originally on the tape.
    Yes you can have either progressive encoded interlaced or vice versa. Flags and type of encoding are independent of actual content.

    Interlaced content encoded and flagged progressive is clearly "wrong" , but it happens. You see this in various forums quite commonly - it's usually user error
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  10. Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    @Sharc, Digital Cinema mode on the GS500 uses a different gamma profile. ...... The GS500 has just two gamma profiles, and cine-gamma is automatically turned on when shooting in Digital Cinema mode. .....This mode is intended for editing, so the levels can be adjusted to taste ....
    I see. This explains it. I did not know about the existence of the Cinema mode with the special gamma profiles. Thank you for enlightening me.
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  11. Two samples for DB83: one is Digital Cinema 25p, another one is regular 25i. Both captured with the "ancient MS prog" via USB.
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  12. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Was this meant as a 'test' for me to state which is actually interlaced ?

    Ok. You have proved your point


    But call me a fuddy-duddy purist. I still prefer the interlaced - the shorter - one
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  13. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ConsumerDV View Post
    Two samples for DB83: one is Digital Cinema 25p, another one is regular 25i. Both captured with the "ancient MS prog" via USB.
    Hopefully that's a tape dropout and not a USB transfer dropout.

    My YouTube channel with little clips: vhs-decode, comparing TBC, etc.
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  14. Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    Hopefully that's a tape dropout and not a USB transfer dropout.
    Hopefully. This is one frame of how many? But I see that you are a perfectionist. In fact, there were 70-something dropped frames at the very start. The same amount of frames were dropped when capturing from another tape on an NTSC camcorder. I guess, USB needs time to "spin up" despite that its bandwidth should be more than enough for the task. Although the frame you singled out is from the end of the sequence. So, maybe it drops frames when stopping as well. IDK.

    I tried capturing via USB using Windows 10 Photos app. No dice. It found the "DVC" device, but would not show properties, and the app was very disoriented, expecting files, not a video stream. One more reason to hate Windows 10. To add insult to injury, turns out that Magix replaced the codebase for Vegas Movie Studio, so I am not sure whether one would be able to use Magix Movie Studio for capturing on Windows 10. But maybe it would be able to do it anyway, maybe MS screwed not only its app, but the driver too. I need to download the trial version to test it. And my Windows 10 laptop does not have Thunderbolt 3, just a regular USB-C. If this laptop were all that I had, I would be screwed.
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