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  1. Member
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    I have been doing research and reading up on the +RW format double time since I got my HP 200i about a week ago. The drive works great but their was one small problem, the damn +RW disks won't work!! I found out that I wasn't the only one with the same problem. Lots of people claim that the disks won't work on standalone dvd players or dvd-rom drives. But to make it worse most of the drives are listed on HP's compatibility list. I called HP for the 10th time and asked them what's going on. Everytime I call I get a different answer telling me to change some function of the drive, but I get the same results. Today I called and the rep told me that the 'some' of the 200i drives have not been properly configured and the software called DLA was formatting the +RW disks to only work in drives where the DLA software was installed. He told me to load my 200i installation disk and run the program called 'bit switching' and the drive should now format the disks to play in 85% of standalone dvd players and dvd-rom drives. I'm not going to be able to run this test until tomorrow, so if anyone is having the same or similar problems with their drive, run the test and post your results. I'm hoping this is the solution!!
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  2. You are not the only one having compatibility problems with DVD+RW media, see this thread --

    http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3426


    Kusanagi
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    Possibly the immaturity of DVD+ technology made Sony decided to use Pioneer DVD-R/RW drives in its high-end PCs.
    Why not call Ricoh?
    They are the OEM company of all DVD+ drives.
    What do you expect from HP PC support?
    They have no clue about DVD technology, they are simply reselling the Ricoh drives, just like all other DVD+ companies.
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    Thanks Kusanagi for the thread, so does that basically make the new HP drive and other +RW drives just about worthless? Think about it, a good majority of people already own standalone dvd players, at least everyone I know. So if the drives aren't compatible with those drives in my opinion they aren't worth crap. Who knows when a standard will be set and of course when the standard is set all dvd players thereafter will then be compatible with whatever is choosen. But I don't give a damn about that right now, I just spent almost $600 for my drive and it can't write a +RW disk to play in a dvd player that is on their freaking list. The funny thing about all this is they keep saying that the wonderful thing about the HP drive is its new ability to write to dvd+r disks. That is great but there is one thing, where are the freaking disks!!!! They don't sell them anywhere, I have about 3 websites thanks to you all and 2 of them are out of stock. I'm just like most of you, I'm learning more and more about dvd writing with each passing day and I am not going to make a perfect disk everytime. That is what the +rw's are for and also these disks are not cheap. If dvd+r's end up being 10 times more compatible than dvd+rw's then maybe I can live with that. Right now I have 1 dvd+r and until I know for sure or I am able to purchase some more dvd+r's I going to bitch about the dvd+rw's!!!!
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  5. More information on DVD+RW, DVD-RW, and DVD-R compatibility with stand-alone DVD players --

    http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q1/dvdrw/index.x?pg=8

    Also, the new Plextor DVD-ROM/CD-R/W combo drive has a difficult time with DVD+RW media, while it reads DVD-RW and DVD-R media fine, see --

    http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=124&page=Performance

    This is why I have been stressing the importance of the larger support base that the DVD Forum has (over 230 companies support DVD-R/W which is more than three times the amount of members the +RW Alliance has). With more support, and with logo certification for DVD player and DVD-ROM manufacturers to use (which +RW does not have, see - http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/mess.htm#notice ) we will see more standalone players and DVD-ROMs work with -R/W media than with +R/W.

    Then again, things could always change with +R only media (and if the +RW Alliance can get +R prices down below -R media prices)...though I have a feeling +R came out just too late to knock off -R...


    Kusanagi
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  6. Member shardison's Avatar
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    First, DLA software has NOTHING to do with playing movies in DVD players.

    DLA is Drive Letter Access and it's for data only, and I'm not surprised that you can't read a DLA formatted DVD on another DVD-ROM drive. To read DLA you need DLA, much like the CD writer situation.

    You have to author a DVD+R/RW with a program like MyCD or DVDMovieFactory, etc. You can't just drag some Mpegs over to a DLA formatted disc and expect the DVD player to see it.

    Bit switching assumes that you have a compliant DVD disc in the first place; you're telling the DVD player not to give up and to look at the disc as if it has a second readable layer.

    If your hearing about about "DLA and bit swtiching" at the same time, then somebody is confused.
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  7. Originally Posted by shardison
    Bit switching assumes that you have a compliant DVD disc in the first place; you're telling the DVD player not to give up and to look at the disc as if it has a second readable layer.
    I've never done it, but all that 'Bit switching' sounds like an extra hassle...what are the different Bit settings? And what do they do? Is this neccessary to burn +R?


    Kusanagi
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    Well, I finally broke down and decided to burn the movie the Predator onto my only DVD+R. I made sure that the rip was absolutely perfect. I ripped the entire movie with smartripper and authored it with Ifoedit. The movie was less than 4.5 gigs so I didn't need to strip anything. I opened each Ifo file and made sure that it was region free and saved. I learned earlier that even ripping with smartripper the region protection can still be attached to various ifo files. After all ifo files were region free, I hit get vts sectors and saved. It played perfectly in the ifoedit video player so I opened nero 5.5.8.0. I selected the dvd-video format and dragged the predator files exactly into the video_ts folder and burned to a dvd+r. It worked perfectly in my Apex AD 500-W and I'm going to try it on my moms pioneer dvd player tomorrow. Maybe the HP 200i isn't a waste after all.
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  9. Member ChrisX's Avatar
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    This is show that PATBOY isn't to be trusted with dvdplusrw.org on the DVD burner +RW or +R.

    See the thread: http://forum.vcdhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=90359

    DVD+RW isn't compatible with the DVD-ROM and the others - the disk cannot read. I checked this out on CDRLabs and found the DVD-R and DVD-RW as the one:

    http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3426

    I am not going to buy a DVD burner just yet and have research for the best one to buy with compatibility with all DVD computer and standalone players. Better to wait for the right time to purchase and I am getting a P4 computer soon. Then I'll decide
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  10. I have 2 cheap apex dvd players 1100 and 1000 cost under $80 at walmart both play my +rw discs burned on a sony dru110 flawlessly my dvd-r discs play intermittently sometimes no disc shows up and sometimes it will play all the way through both types were authored with mydvd or movie factory. If you have a +rw writer already it is cheap enough to just purchase a new dvd player, can't coment on the + r I know my sony won't record on them It's a first generation but has never failed burning once properly once. even with $5.00 optodisc media nor has it failed to burn once in the cd's can't say the same for the peice of junk panasonic r-/ram puts out. which I have one of those also.
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  11. Forgot to add to the last post if you go though all the posts about the cheap dvd-r media the sucess rate with the cheaper media is slim on lots of recorders. I have had 1% success rate with it, and 99% with good quality -r , 100 % success rate with + rw and they are cheaper than good quality dvd-r when the supply and demand for +r media goes down the disc prices will come down. just like the price came down on +rw's
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  12. I'm somewhat sceptical of your stats birdygal. Are you telling me that you've tried all three media in over a hundred different DVD players??

    From the reliable info given on most sites, DVD-R/RW is compatible with MOST but not all DVD players. DVD+RW is rather less compatible (probably about 70-80% of DVD players can read DVD+RW discs).

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
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  13. Originally Posted by vitualis
    DVD+RW is rather less compatible (probably about 70-80% of DVD players can read DVD+RW discs).
    According to the DVD FAQ, it is more around 65%. ( http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.3.1 )


    Kusanagi
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  14. Thanks for the correction.

    To be fair to DVD+RW, most newer DVD players will play DVD+RW media (though this is by no means certain).

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
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  15. Originally Posted by vitualis
    Thanks for the correction.

    To be fair to DVD+RW, most newer DVD players will play DVD+RW media (though this is by no means certain).
    No problem

    I think we all can assume that all new 2003 and up DVD player models will most likely be able to read DVD+R and DVD+RW media (along with CD-R/RW/MP3 support, etc.)

    However, we are seeing the opposite when it comes to DVD-ROM compatibility. Everyone assumed that all new DVD-ROM drives would be able to read and access DVD+RW and DVD+R media. Unfortunately, this is now becoming not the case (ie. the new Plextor DVD-ROM/CD-R/W IDE combo drive does not read DVD+RW media, but reads DVD-R and DVD-RW media fine). Will this be a continuing trend? Is this the DVD Forum throwing its weight around with its larger member base - thus snuffing out any hope of DVD+RW support on new DVD-ROM drives from members within the DVD Forum? Only time will tell I guess...but if Plextor (the king of SCSI CD-ROM and CD-R/W drives IMHO) won't support DVD+RW on their new drives, then that is a pretty indirect strike against the +RW Alliance.


    Kusanagi
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  16. Member shardison's Avatar
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    When you say DVD-ROM compatibility, do you mean the ability to read a DVD video disc, or a DLA data disc?

    If the Plextor DVD-ROM/CD-R/W IDE combo drive can't read a DVD video authored with a DVD+R/RW drive, then that means Plextor has gone out of it's way to not read +R/RW. I doubt this.

    If it can't read a +R/RW data disc, then I'm not surprised. It's a software thing.

    Let's stick to video DVD compatability issues.
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    Well said Shardison this time
    If a DVD-ROM cannot read DVD-R/-RW/+R/+RW its a crappy item and should not be bought. What's more I expect a DVD-ROM to able to read DVD-RAM (at least without cartridge) discs as well.
    When I buy a DVD-ROM or DVD player I want it to be able to read all disc formats. When I buy a DVD burner I want it to be able to write DVD discs that can be read by all DVD gears; and today DVD-R is the only proven near 100% DVD compatible format.
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  18. I'm not sure anything by Plextor can be called a 'crappy item'...

    The new Plextor PlexCombo PX-320A 20/10/40-12A IDE CD-RW/DVD-ROM (whew, try saying that 3 times fast ) was just tested at cdrlabs. It tested fine with DVD-R and DVD-RW media. DVD+RW did not read and if it did, at a horribly slow rate. I'll quote from the review (this has also been picked up at dvdplusrw - http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=1274 ) --

    "I had a lot of problems getting the drive to recognize DVD+RW media. The PX-320A would not read Verbatim's DVD+RW discs at all. I almost gave up on the Memorex discs too, but after about 30 seconds the drive finally recognized the disc. As you can see from the picture above, the PX-320A isn't the fastest drive around when reading DVD+RW media.

    The PX-320A was also able to read DVD-R and DVD-RW discs without any problems. However, its compatibility with DVD+RW media is questionable at best.
    "

    The whole review can be found here - http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=124&page=Intro


    Kusanagi
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  19. Member shardison's Avatar
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    I read the article. It said that the drive reads DVD's slow in general:

    The PX-320A is rated at 2x when reading DVD video discs. In our tests it really didn't go much higher than this. Compared to the drives from Toshiba and LG, this is pretty slow. While slower speeds don't affect movie playback, it does help to make the drive pretty quiet. Of course it also makes you wonder whether Plextor did this to deter people from ripping DVD movies with this drive.

    What does the article say about +R discs? Nothing. Does it slam the +R/RW format? No. I think it indicates that Plextor is missing a feature.

    The drive is Plextor's first combo. Better luck next model.
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  20. You can't sidestep the issue.

    The Plexor is an excellent combo drive and the fact that it can't read DVD+RW media has more significance on the compatibility of DVD+RW than anything else.

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
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  21. Member shardison's Avatar
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    I wouldn't buy a DVD-ROM drive that throttles down to 2X when reading a DVD disc. What is that all about? You go ahead and buy that thing.

    So the drive is wimpy and can't read +RW. There shouldn't be any difference in DVD video read-ability between a -RW and a +RW. Drive's fault. Period.

    Could be the media. There have been lots of issues surounding media for all players, drives, etc.

    But really, the test is hardly conclusive and not at all a show stopper for the Plextor or any particular DVD writing method.

    Wait until the +R results are in; I've been seeing a lot of "Y"s and no "N"s in the growing compatibility columns.
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  22. So the drive is wimpy and can't read +RW. There shouldn't be any difference in DVD video read-ability between a -RW and a +RW. Drive's fault. Period.
    I don't think so. If that was the case then ALOT of Toshiba, LG, AOpen and Pioneer DVD-ROM drives (that can't read DVD+RW media) are at 'fault' - so, this is certainly not the case. DVD+RW media is simply not as compatible as DVD-R/W in DVD-ROM drives.

    Could be the media. There have been lots of issues surounding media for all players, drives, etc.
    It looks like you are looking for more and more excuses, like vitualis said, you can't just sidestep the issue.

    But really, the test is hardly conclusive and not at all a show stopper for the Plextor
    If it isn't such a 'show stopper', then why did it earn a perfect 10 rating at cdr-labs and take the Editor's Choice Award.

    Your subjective statements and muddled excuses for DVD+R/W are starting to get tiresome...


    Kusanagi
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  23. Member shardison's Avatar
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    K,

    My statements are meant to counter your ongoing effort to make the +R/RW format sound inferior to the -R/RW format, which it is not.

    The reasons any particular disc will or will not play in any particular drive are often due to issues outside of the format differences. I'm not sidestepping anything; I"m saying that you put too much importance to examples that you have doggedly searched out.

    I feel both formats (I hate using the word format for +/-R/RW; DVD is the format) have equal merit in the DVD video authoring world. Especially now that +R is available.

    You have spent a great deal of energy on these boards bashing the +R drives, by picking out the odd example and one-sided reporting.

    BOTH formats have their odd compatibility problems and when you start talking about he shortcomings of BOTH, I'll stop chasing you around.

    Muddled excuses? Oh please, you and your +R bashing friends are as muddled as gets. I'm the voice of clairity and fairness in this discussion, not you.
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  24. shardison,
    I've read and re-read your statements in this thread and the others, and you are correct that the format differences shouldn't make any differences what-so-ever. +/- are both compatible formats, BUT, in the pusuit of fairness, you have to conceed that at this time the +RW/+R format does have compatibility issues.
    The -R format is far more compatible at this time while the -RW format compatibility is questionable at best.

    The truth is (like you've said before) it doesn't make any difference, +/-.
    In the end both will more than likely survive.

    The one issue I have to dispute you on is from this quote:
    DVD is the format) have equal merit in the DVD video authoring world
    The +R/RW world is not DVD compliant according to the formats laid down by the standards body, and cannot display the DVD label on the devices.
    Whether or not this is a technical issue or a political issue is still up in the air but technically(at this time) they are not DVD Forum compliant.

    We've wasted enough time arguing this issue already....and the truth is our opinons won't make any difference in how the whole thing shakes out anyway....

    What I see in the future:
    If both "formats" continue to survive, drives will become compatible with both or the formats will change to make the drives compatible...

    Just my opinion...and like I said before....it won't matter in the end anyway.....
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  25. Nicely put Scooby111! I was going to respond to shardison, but you addressed the main issues.


    Kusanagi

    I'm waiting for shardison to accuse us of more "+R bashing" now
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    I feel both formats (I hate using the word format for +/-R/RW; DVD is the format) have equal merit in the DVD video authoring world. Especially now that +R is available.
    Err... no. While both -R and +R (giving it the benefit of the doubt here) should have great compatibility with standalone players, for professional authoring work there is essentially zero support for DVD+R. Indeed even many of the consumer level programs don't even support +R.

    This will change with time but currently your statement is not correct.
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  27. Member shardison's Avatar
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    There is little reason to argue over the fact that DVD+ is more flexible a format than DVD-. Any table comparing writing features would instantly show DVD+ as at least more flexible, if not superior. If I am wrong, tell me why, and be specific; regarding writing features only. I already know, but I want you to prove that you do.

    As for those who attempt to throw a bad light (disguised as fairly reported information) on DVD+, they are generally confined to pointing out the inevitable odd incompatiblity (but not of +R, only +RW), quoting the frustration of confused users; or the fact that +R/RW is not the "offical" writing format. There has also been some apples and oranges comparisons between -R and +RW, as +R has only recently become available.

    They also rely heavily on throwing doubt on dvdplusrw.org, as if the site was full of misleading propaganda and lies. If the site is full of lies, then for the good of all, please reveal them here. The fact is, the site has good information that is invaluable for deciding which format to choose.

    What it all boils down to is compatibility with dvd players. We already know that the DVD-R format is quite compatable. Now it remains to see if the +R format can keep up. I provide below the following link, yes from dvdplusrw, that you can check on from time to time to see how +R is doing. So far, so good.

    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/resources/compatibilitylist_dvdvideo.html

    If over the next year it becomes evident that +R is just as compatible, what will be left of the debate?
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    Originally Posted by shardison
    There is little reason to argue over the fact that DVD+ is more flexible a format than DVD-. Any table comparing writing features would instantly show DVD+ as at least more flexible, if not superior. If I am wrong, tell me why, and be specific; regarding writing features only. I already know, but I want you to prove that you do.

    As for those who attempt to throw a bad light (disguised as fairly reported information) on DVD+, they are generally confined to pointing out the inevitable odd incompatiblity (but not of +R, only +RW), quoting the frustration of confused users; or the fact that +R/RW is not the "offical" writing format. There has also been some apples and oranges comparisons between -R and +RW, as +R has only recently become available.

    They also rely heavily on throwing doubt on dvdplusrw.org, as if the site was full of misleading propaganda and lies. If the site is full of lies, then for the good of all, please reveal them here. The fact is, the site has good information that is invaluable for deciding which format to choose.

    What it all boils down to is compatibility with dvd players. We already know that the DVD-R format is quite compatable. Now it remains to see if the +R format can keep up. I provide below the following link, yes from dvdplusrw, that you can check on from time to time to see how +R is doing. So far, so good.

    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/resources/compatibilitylist_dvdvideo.html

    If over the next year it becomes evident that +R is just as compatible, what will be left of the debate?
    I suggest you read Philip's post here.

    The problem is not necessarily the specs of DVD+RW/+R. It is a fine technology. However there's a lot of hype associated with this technology, and some of that gets regurgitated on various forums such as DVDplusRW.org (where I also am a member). Furthermore, on-paper specs means nothing in the real world.

    In my assessment:

    DVD-RAM has by far the best data capabilities. Its capabilities TODAY will be far superior to DVD+RW for data even when Mt. Rainier is implemented with DVD+RW. DVD-RW does however seem inferior to DVD+RW + Mt. Rainier for data. However, it must be noted that right now DVD+RW has no significant defect management either with current implementations (since Mt. Rainier currently doesn't support DVD+RW). So as of today DVD+RW and DVD-RW are similarly unreliable for data.

    DVD-R today has by far the best DVD video authoring support. eg. Try to use your DVD+R as a master for commercial DVD pressing and they'll tell you to come back with a DVD-R or something else. DVD+R may eventually equal it DVD-R for overall support, and the compatibility DVD+R seems quite good with standalone players, but it remains to be seen where the market goes.

    Neither DVD-RW nor DVD+RW should be viewed as a viable option for true DVD-video compatbility, since neither gets more than about 3/4 compatibility.

    However, it also depends on what you want to do with it. If you're just making movies for yourself and friends and doing secondary backups, DVD+RW should be fine. And it will be even better (or at least the new drives will) when Mt. Rainier support is finally in place. Like I said, it's a fine technology.

    I will also point out that when I started researching the topic, I was prepared to buy either a DVD+RW/+R drive or a DVD-RW/-R drive. Little did I know that I would actually end up getting a DVD-RAM/-R drive (because my needs are primarily data and NOT video). I based my purchase on my research, not upon hype from the various DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, or DVD+RW camps.
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  29. Member shardison's Avatar
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    I'm sure that DVD-RAM is by far the most reliable for data storage.

    However, this site and forum deal with all the problems of writing video to disc in a way that can be played on one's dvd player or in some instances, on their computer.

    DVD-RAM really doesn't enter the picture here, as no one has any plans for making a dvd player that can read the format.

    Thanks for the link, it was informative.

    Neither DVD-RW nor DVD+RW should be viewed as a viable option for true DVD-video compatbility.
    I'm not sure why you would say this. Burning is all we have. Is there another home method of burning a DVD disc that will have perfect reflectivity and structure comparable with a commercial DVD? How?

    DVD+RW has no significant defect management either with current implementations
    This is an interesting statement, what is the difference between significant defect management and just "some defect management?" The DVD+ people seem to think they have a pretty robust defect managment system built into the drive. DVD- is said to have none built into the drive. Other than on paper comparisons, what is the real world defect rate of RAM vs +R vs -R? Does anyone know?
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  30. Originally Posted by shardison
    DVD-RAM really doesn't enter the picture here, as no one has any plans for making a dvd player that can read the format.
    Incorrect. Most Panasonic and Hitachi DVD players can read and play video on DVD-RAM media. There are DVD players that have been made already that can read video recorded onto DVD-RAM.


    Kusanagi
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