The underlying problem is interlace in the first placeInterlacing was a very clever way to reduce bandwidth in the old days, and it worked very well on CRT, because the persistance of the image on the screen. In modern days is a source of problems.so true,...
Because poisondeathray is on board, I should have mentioned his contribution also to the question of using SeparateFields + Select even/odd on temporal filtering. Sorry pdr, I lost your comments in my cut & paste:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1691595#post1691595
Even if you group even/odd separate fields, and filter that way, then interleave and weave - then use of temporal filters is technically "wrong" and less effective, because in bobbed sequence, you will be filtering 0,2,4,6... separately from 1,3,5,7.... ie. there will be no temporal filtering between even and odd, only within
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Interesting! And you are right, I just checked and there is in fact some of this up/down/up/down motion, you can see it e.g. when the opening credits play and on some objects. However it's very minor and doesn't really bother me too much, in fact I haven't noticed it before you told me about it. What's more annoying to me is QTGMC's motion compensation (I think is the right term for it?) like when the camera and objects/persons are moving and the grain/noise is behaving very weird in that area, it kind of stays at the same place when it should in fact move (like I described in my original post it acts like a magnet). I'm trying Skiller's (how can I tag a user?) settings right now, I just need to do a full encode first to actually determine whether it's an improvement or not (11.45fps on my 9900K). But from my sample clip (15 seconds) it looks cleaner overall than NNEDI3, less blocky and a bit softer but sometimes details get a little bit lost.
Since NNEDI3 is an intra-field only deinterlacer, is there any alternative besides using QTGMC that is not intra-field only (e.g. EEDI2, etc. sometimes there's no word on it)? Does yadifmod2+NNEDI3 provide better results than just NNEDI3? I mean technically I could just do single rate deinterlacing to avoid this up/down motion, right? I prefer bobbing though, as it preserves the original framerate and looks better for PAL content.
And this might be a dumb question but it is okay that my output file size will be higher than the original one (about 950 MB interlaced source resulting in a 1.1GB 50fps progressive output file with near-lossless encoding settings), since I'm basically adding 2 times the information, right? I don't care about HDD space anyways..Last edited by sebastiaaan; 28th Dec 2021 at 11:56.
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Yes, for single rate - 1/2 the information is discarded motion is less smooth. Either all even fields, or all odd fields, not both (ie. all "up", or all "down") . "Bobbing" doubles the original framerate (it does not preserve it), it retains the number of original motion samples. 25 frames per second interlaced has 50 fields per second. 50 moments in time represented. All motion samples from individual fields are retained
In terms of what? the up/down ? Partially. The difference is the whole image isn't filtered with NNEDI3 when used with yadifmod as edeint - Only certain areas are.
yadifmod/yadifmod2 + nnedi3 will still have some partial up/down motion and flicker during motion (less bad than nnedi3 alone), but will be better during static sections (but it doesn't process some pixels, such as the top and bottom rows), and have less edge enhancement (nnedi3 causes edge enhancement artifacts, a haloing effect).
Another "negative" of nnedi3 alone - it's not motion adaptive. It "blindly" processes everything. So in no motion scenes - where the image is actually progressive content - nnedi3 will degrade it (because it's a single field, not weaved 2 fields for full quality) . yadifmod2+nnedi3 will only slightly degrade it (yadifmod/yadifmod2 omit top and bottom rows, such as QTGMC border=false). QTGMC will be better (depending on the settings used), but bwdif should be almost perfect if it registers no motion
That was the reason for that "pause" at the beginning in the gif demo. Those first few frames have no motion. A perfect deinterlacer will weave() the 2 field to produce full quality image. QTGMC comes close, but very slightly degrades because of the additional processing . yadifmod+nnedi3 misses the top and bottom row (so does QTGMC default without border=true). Bwdif+nnedi3 is essentially perfect for the static sections, if it detects no motion correctly
But in motion, all of them will generally have more flickering artifacts more than QTGMC
bwdif + nnedi3 as edeint is generally better than yadifmod/yadifmod2 + nnedi3 as edeint . Bwdif alone is actually faster than yadif alone on most semi recent computers (with SSE2 and AVX) and produces higher quality - yadif and yadifmod are basically obsolete IMO, they can be safely replaced with bwdif for faster and higher qualtiy filtering
Of course, YMMV - different types of sources, scenes, content might react better to different deinterlacing algorithms.
What's more annoying to me is QTGMC's motion compensation (I think is the right term for it?) like when the camera and objects/persons are moving and the grain/noise is behaving very weird in that area, it kind of stays at the same place when it should in fact move (like I described in my original post it acts like a magnet).
But those types of can also be partially compounded from your encoding settings. More common with certain codecs like HEVC with certain settings. You can rule that out by using lossless encoding
is there any alternative besides using QTGMC that is not intra-field only
Pros/cons to any choice you make. If you dislike the QTGMC side effects , and cannot find QTGMC settings that get the results you want, I would also try bwdif with nnedi3 as edeint
And this might be a dumb question but it is okay that my output file size will be higher than the original one (about 950 MB interlaced source resulting in a 1.1GB 50fps progressive output file with near-lossless encoding settings), since I'm basically adding 2 times the information, right? I don't care about HDD space anyways..
Many factors to consider - It also depends on the encoding settings and the content. If you use longer GOP, more b-frames, etc.. that can help with compression -
You can alter some settings to make it much less destructive. The default settings really suck, and are indeed very destructive.
Code:QTGMC(preset="slow", matchpreset="slow", matchpreset2="slow", sourcematch=3, tr1=2, tr2=1, NoiseTR=2, sharpness=0.1)
Code:tfm(order=-1, slow=2, cthresh=8, clip2=QTGMC(preset="slow", matchpreset="slow", matchpreset2="slow", FPSDivisor=2, sourcematch=3, tr1=2, tr2=1, NoiseTR=2, sharpness=0.1))
Last edited by killerteengohan; 29th Dec 2021 at 23:19.
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Code:
SetFilterMTMode("DEFAULT_MT_MODE", 2) SetFilterMTMode("QTGMC", 2) AVISource("F:\Video Files\Video.avi") AssumeTFF() AssumeFPS(25) QTGMC(TR0=2, TR1=2, TR2=1, Rep0=1, Rep1=0, Rep2=4, \ DCT=5, ThSCD1=300, ThSCD2=110, \ SourceMatch=3, Lossless=2, Sharpness=0.1, Sbb=0, MatchPreset="slow", \ NoiseProcess=2, GrainRestore=0.0, NoiseRestore=0.4, NoisePreset="slow", \ StabilizeNoise=false, NoiseTR=0, NoiseDeint="bob") Crop(0,0,-0,-6) Prefetch(5)
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I don't get these artifacts with the script
Code:AVISource("Original Source.avi") AssumeTFF() AssumeFPS(25) QTGMC(TR0=2, TR1=2, TR2=1, Rep0=1, Rep1=0, Rep2=4, \ DCT=5, ThSCD1=300, ThSCD2=110, \ SourceMatch=3, Lossless=2, Sharpness=0.1, Sbb=0, MatchPreset="slow", \ NoiseProcess=2, GrainRestore=0.0, NoiseRestore=0.4, NoisePreset="slow", \ StabilizeNoise=false, NoiseTR=0, NoiseDeint="bob") Crop(0,0,-0,-6)
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QTGMC at its default settings makes all of my videos with heavy grain look like crumpled cardboard.
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Out of curiosity, can someone post before after images of such an occurrence? (I normally deal with content that doesn't have much noise and use QTGMC in mode 'Fast',...)
Cu SelurLast edited by Selur; 18th Nov 2022 at 15:09.
users currently on my ignore list: deadrats, Stears555
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