Vdub2 VHS C Capture and post processing - advice requested

[jagabo]

it did play strangly in both VLC and MPC-HC

It's a huffyuv encoded AVI file. Neither of those players will identify it as interlaced. You have to force them to deinterlace.

[EDIT]
Most editors will not identify them as interlaced either. You have to force them to deinterlace or encode interlaced.
[/EDIT]

[dellsam34]

Which I do, that sample plays different than other interlaced HuffYUV files I have.

[jagabo]

A quick QTGMC():

ffVideoSource("happauge capture usb vdub 1.10.avi") 
AssumeTFF()
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
QTGMC() # default settings

[Sharc]

Which I do, that sample plays different than other interlaced HuffYUV files I have.

You did not by chance watch it with the wrong field order? The file is TFF, some players and AviSynth default to BFF (like for DV).
To me it seems that at some stage (VCR, DVD recorder in passthrough) the video got denoised and sharpened which left some sharpening artefacts and halos. From an interlacing and motion capture standpoint I don't see anything suspect.

[sum_guy]

I'm not sure where I would've gone wrong with the capture, it's definitely interlaced TFF, I ran QTGMC and got the same result as Jagabo's mkv file. I'm not sure where any denoising or sharpening would've occurred, I don't have any enhancements turned on with the VCR or ES15, I'm thinking I'm as close as I'm going to get with my captures at this point. I've recaptured 2 of my 5 tapes so far and the two I did look exactly as they should. I have 3 more to go so I can still do some more investigation into where any denoising or sharpening could occur.

[dellsam34]

I think now you are heading the right direction with this new capture device, You need to tackle the de-interlacing, and optionally cropping, resizing and encoding for final viewing or sharing.

[sum_guy]

Here's a sample after QTGMC, no cropping or resizing, just deinterlacing at this stage.

https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/sample%20qtgmc.mkv

[Sharc]

.... I'm not sure where any denoising or sharpening would've occurred, I don't have any enhancements turned on with the VCR or ES15 ...

That's perfectly fine then. Your VCR has 3 sharpening options named EDIT, SOFT, SHARP from what I saw earlier from the manual. And the ES15 has a setting for noise reduction. I thought you might have enabled these somehow, or perhaps that the tapes have been dupped which caused the halos. Never mind, it was just a wild guessing.

[sum_guy]

Sharc,

Your VCR has 3 sharpening options named EDIT, SOFT, SHARP from what I saw earlier from the manual. And the ES15 has a setting for noise reduction.

Is the "edit" setting correct for the VCR? Where is the noise reduction setting in the ES15? I've got the remotes and have gone through the menus so I'm at that level now.

[Alwyn]

I'm not sure where I would've gone wrong with the capture

Nothing wrong with it. There's only one person complaining.

[sum_guy]

I was thinking I had pretty good captures and IMHO I do. Sharc was right, the ES15 had NR on, it's in the dumbest place in the menu - "Display" not "Settings", rather infuriating to find it there. I still don't know what the VCR setting should be as far as NR. Once all these minor issues are resolved, I will run them through QTGMC, check the results, if I upscale, I plan to crop the sides and shoot for 1440 x 1080 so that I still have DAR correct. Then I will stream them from my plex server to my UHD tv and see what works. I can't thank you guys enough for sticking with this thread, it's been 20 years+ since I shot these videos and that's about when I last captured with my EZCap 116 (which no longer seems to be a good option).

[jagabo]

I was going to mention that the noise reduction setting on the ES15 was in an unexpected location but I didn't remember where it was. Good that you found it. It produces ghosting in low contrast areas with motion. Much better can be done in software.

Edit mode on the VCR may disable the sharpening filter that's causing the halos.

[sum_guy]

Final Sample, I'm pretty happy with the results. Hauppauge USB Live 2, Capture software AmarecTV, 480i 29.97, QTGMC deinterlacing.

https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/Tape%202%20final%20sample.mkv

[Alwyn]

Giddyup horsey! Looks good.

[jagabo]

Yes, it looks good. But shouldn't the aspect ratio be 4:3, not 3:2?

[dellsam34]

Yeah, The aspect ratio flag is wrong, Also a little bit blurry, Maybe try to increase the compression bitrate a little bit to preserve more details, but maybe my expectations are too high.

[jagabo]

And why not use 60p to keep the smooth motion and reduce flicker?

[Sharc]

This, and I would reduce the contrast somewhat, increase the gamma and lift the black level slightly. It's a matter of personal taste as well, of course. Something like

SmoothTweak(contrast=0.95)
SmoothLevels(input_low=16,gamma=1.1,input_high=235,output_low=20,output_high=235)

[sum_guy]

I am becoming a Hybrid fan, what would be the best way to take the frame rate up to 59.94 without making the playback speed up?

[jagabo]

Use a double frame rate deinterlacer like QTGMC() or Yadif(mode=1).

Maybe some dehaloing, deshaking, sharpening? I also doubled the frame rate, approximating what you would get with a double frame rate deinterlacer.

LWLibavVideoSource("Tape 2 final sample.mkv", cache=false, prefer_hw=2) 
Crop(0,4,-12,-8) # remove junk at edges of the frame
FineDehalo(rx=6.0, ry=1.0)

#######################################################
#
# Deshake
#
# Use MDepan() instead of DepanEstimate() for rotations
#
#######################################################

maxstabH=150
maxstabV=120

vectors = MSuper().MAnalyse(isb = false)
mdata = MDepan(vectors, pixaspect=1.0, thSCD1=400)
#mdata = DePanEstimate(last, trust=1.0, dxmax=maxstabH, dymax=maxstabV)
DePanStabilize(last, data=mdata, dxmax=maxstabH, dymax=maxstabV, rotmax=3.0, method=1, mirror=15, cutoff=0.2, damping=3.0, prev=10, next=10, blur=0)

Crop(32,16,-32,-16) # remove junk from edges

#######################################################

DoubleFPS2() # motion interpolated double frame rate
CAS(0.8) # contrast adaptive sharpening

[sum_guy]

Latest results, I changed scenes so we're not watching my same crap over and over. This was a Hauppauge USB Live 2 interlaced capture NTSC 720x480, cropped, letterboxed, QTGMC deinterlace, TTemporsmooth. Flowframes RIFE 4.0 interpolation to 59.94006 frame rate.

https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/Leslie%20Howard%20Devon%202001.mkv

https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/Mclain%20Ward%20Devon%202001.mkv

[Alwyn]

Sum_guy, was that all in Hybrid?

[jagabo]

Why are you using QTGMC and FlowFrames? Your source already has 60 fields per second motion. Just use QTGMC to get 60p out of it.

[sum_guy]

Sum_guy, was that all in Hybrid?

Yes, all but the frame interpolation, that was done in Flowframes with RIFE 4.0, took the frame rate up to 59.94, Jagabo is correct, I could have converted to 59.94 fps with QTGMC.

[Sharc]

@Sum-guy
Out of curiosity: It appears to me that the videos have been overfiltered (denoised and sharpened ...) at some stage. The legs of the horses disappear totally on some frames, for example. I don't think it was like this on the original VHS tape. Is your source a master tape or a VHS copy of the master tape (dubbed version)?

[sum_guy]

It's a capture from the master, no dubbing. The master had a few stars and comets, QTGMC and Spotless, no sharpening.

[Sharc]

Thanks. Maybe you revisit the Spotless settings. The vapoursynth version is quite aggressive in removing objects, in my experience. Try the Avisynth variant of spotless, it's better and it has more tuning options, although its defaults are ususally fine for VHS. But firstly check the unfiltered capture and see whether you find the missing horse legs there.
It's a compromise between removing comets/spots and keeping real objects. You can find more about Spotless at doom9 where this has been discussed.

[jagabo]

Motion interpolation from 30p to 60p will not work as well as QTGMC from 30i to 60p.

Spotless (and other temporal spot/dust removers) will often cause fast moving objects (like a trotting horse's feet) to disappear.

[lollo]

As others have said SpotLess can be destructive for small objects. Usage of dedicated masks to protect and to restore can help. Have a look here (the whole thread is interesting):
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1944362#post1944362
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1944489#post1944489
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1944708#post1944708

[sum_guy]

Here is a redo of the redo of the redo. The filename says it all. All done in Hybrid because it's good, I'm lazy, and I think I can accomplish what I want with it. Having said that. It's cropped, letter boxed, QTGMC bob and a mild degrain as opposed to a temporal smooth which delivers a buttery look. What do you think?

https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/Leslie%20Howard%20Devon%202001%20QTGMC%20bob%20degrain.mkv