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  1. Doesn't that s-vhs deck have a line tbc? Turning that on should help with time base wiggle and flagging. It might also help a little with the dropped frames. But you'll probably need to play with the timing options in VirtualDub to fully eliminate the dropped frames.
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  2. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    No, As far as I know it is a low end S-VHS machine, Which in the capturing world doesn't mean a bad thing since most of the features that makes a deck high end don't be that useful for capturing anyway but the most important feature which is line TBC is not there which can help avoid dropped frames. The only advantage here is better chroma separation therefore less chroma noise when using S-Video socket. The OP needs to use "Edit mode" to disable picture processing that might affect luma levels.
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    I'm at my limits for patience which takes quite a bit, I believe my problem is my ancient EZCap 116 and a Windows 11 computer. So, someone earlier on suggested a DVD recorder passthrough, I set it to 480i and recorded a dvd while capturing from the Sony DVD recorder. My EZCap was dropping and inserting billions of frames. I switched to my more modern dongle, a clearclick tech dongle. I don't know what I have here. I uploaded the capture and what looks to me a decent version after putting it through qtgmc. My head is spun out at this point. I'm just going to save what looks good on my modern Sony 4K OLED and deal with it. Thank you everyone for your input.

    https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/test%20pass%20through%20capture.avi

    https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/Hybrid%20Test%20edit.mkv
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  4. With a proper interlaced capture you have 60 different motion increments every second. With your deinterlaced capture you have only 30 different motions per second. This is important with shaky home video because the picture can flicker and jerk badly at 30p vs. a smooth flicker free video at 30i (deinterlaced on-the-fly) or 60p (QTGMC deinterlaced before encoding).

    Watch the video in this post at full screen:

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/307004-Best-framerate-conversion-(eg-23-97-to-30-f...r)#post1888926

    Assuming you're running a 60 Hz monitor: The top row is what 24p with 3:2 duplicates looks like -- flickery and jerky. The middle row is 30p -- flickery and a little jerky. The bottom row is 60p (or 30i with bob deinterlacing) displayed at 60 Hz -- glassy smooth and hardly any flicker.

    Your latest AVI has only a few dropped frames, much fewer than the video in post #29. But it's lost resolution and motion from the capture device's deinterlacing.

    VirtualDub's capturing can usually be made to work properly but some people give up and switch to AmarecTV with success.

    https://www.videohelp.com/software/AmaRecTV
    Last edited by jagabo; 20th Jan 2022 at 22:16.
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  5. My EZCap was dropping and inserting billions of frames. I switched to my more modern dongle, a clearclick tech dongle
    I don't know the clearclick tech thingy, but it appears that it does the deinterlacing. Is there an option to switch its deinterlacer off? If so, switch it OFF.
    .... So, someone earlier on suggested a DVD recorder passthrough, I set it to 480i and recorded a dvd while capturing from the Sony DVD recorder...
    The setup would be: VCR S-Video out -> DVD Recorder S-Video in -> DVD Recorder S-Video out -> S-Video in of your capture device (dongle, card, USB converter ..... whatever).
    I have no experience with Windows11 for capturing. Maybe it contributes to the frame dropping due to some background activity? Or do you capture to a slow hard disk?
    And yes, try AmaRecTV as an alternative to VirtualDub.
    Last edited by Sharc; 21st Jan 2022 at 04:09.
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    I'll give it another try tonight, my current thinking is the EZCap is the culprit of the dropped/inserted frames. The clearclick dongle is deinterlacing. I'm thinking, vcr>s-video out>to s-video in of sony dvd recorder> then recording a dvd-r at 480i, then rip the disk on the computer?
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  7. Originally Posted by sum_guy View Post
    I'll give it another try tonight, my current thinking is the EZCap is the culprit of the dropped/inserted frames. The clearclick dongle is deinterlacing. I'm thinking, vcr>s-video out>to s-video in of sony dvd recorder> then recording a dvd-r at 480i, then rip the disk on the computer?
    You need not record to a DVD-R and rip the disk on the PC, as the video on the DVD-R will already be lossy compressed and converted to mpeg2. For the capturing of the VHS tape just use the DVD recorder in passthrough, means S-video in > S-video out. This way the DVD recorder acts as a signal conditioner for the poor S-video signal which comes out of the VCR.
    What SONY model is your DVD recorder? The S-video in and S-video out sockets are normally found on the rear side, or sometimes S-video in at the front and S-video out at the rear. Let me check the manual if I find one.

    P.S. What exactly is your clearclick dongle? Is it this:
    https://www.clearclick.tech/products/video2digital-converter-2-0-second-generation-cap...puter-required
    Last edited by Sharc; 21st Jan 2022 at 13:26.
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    I decided I would burn these tapes to DVD for my own piece of mind. Having done that, I finalized a dvd, ripped it with staxrip and here is that file. I also ordered a Panasonic ES15 today but won't have it for a week or so.

    https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/tape%201%20disk2rip.avi
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    It's not important the problem be solved, only that the blame for the mistake is assigned correctly
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  10. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sum_guy View Post
    I decided I would burn these tapes to DVD for my own piece of mind. Having done that, I finalized a dvd, ripped it with staxrip and here is that file. I also ordered a Panasonic ES15 today but won't have it for a week or so.

    https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/tape%201%20disk2rip.avi
    This doesn't look like a DVD rip, It is AVI 4:2:2 not mpeg-2 4:2:0, Something wrong you're doing.
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  11. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Originally Posted by sum_guy View Post
    I decided I would burn these tapes to DVD for my own piece of mind. Having done that, I finalized a dvd, ripped it with staxrip and here is that file. I also ordered a Panasonic ES15 today but won't have it for a week or so.

    https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/tape%201%20disk2rip.avi
    This doesn't look like a DVD rip, It is AVI 4:2:2 not mpeg-2 4:2:0, Something wrong you're doing.
    I am confused as well. Maybe the DVD mpeg-2 was decompressed and converted to yuv422 .avi (Huffyuv) by StaxRip. How ever the OP did it, it's the best of the variants so far: interlaced TFF 720x480, very few (if any) dropped frames, Levels about ok.....
    So let's wait and see what the OP will get from the ES15 in passthrough.
    Last edited by Sharc; 22nd Jan 2022 at 08:53.
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  12. It looks like he converted the DVD MPEG2 video to huffyuv. If you look closely you can see the MPEG blocking.
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    I received the Panasonic ES15 Today, made the proper S-Video Connections, however, even storing the original tapes perfectly couldn't prevent their demise. Tape 1 has issues with the first 2 minutes of playback, I refuse to take a chance on the others. I like to think I was somewhat smart as I had recorded all 5 of my tapes to DVD-R disks in mpeg-2 480 interlaced before any further degradation could occur. When in doubt, backup to alternate media. I used staxrip on the first disk to rip, however, wasn't pleased with the amount of effort it took to set up that first disk rip. I switched to Cleverffmpeg GUI for the other 4 disk rips. The DVD's were recording the tapes at 480 interlaced mpeg-2 and it was todays saving grace. I have near perfect dvd disks of the tapes prior to degrading tape quality. My EZCap 116 even with the ES15 in pass through. refuses to stop dropping and inserting frames. My other capture dongle only captures in progressive which appears overly smoothed and loses detail. I have a composite/s-vhs to HDMI dongle and it works but, only with OBS which refuses to play nice for capture. So, I have 5 good dvd disks, some very good equipment I can resell or keep. And move along. I am able to play the dvd's or stream conversions via plex to every device in and out of the house and just have to live with the final results.
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  14. You should be using a test tape until you get your capture process working properly. Only once you have worked out all the kinks in your hardware/software setup should you start worrying about fine tuning for your precious tapes.
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    After more trial and error, it's not the tape that's degrading, it's the VCR from eBay, it plays commercial tapes fine, it struggles with vhs-c in the adapter for some reason. Tried the tape with adapter in my other low dollar vcr and it plays fine. Capturing with EZcap 116 and Vdub is still an issue, I have to mess more with the timing settings, it wants to drop frames and insert frames. My other usb dongles are not doing it but, they are progressive and 1 will connect with vdub 2 and the other will only connect with OBS. Lot's of experimenting going on this weekend. I will use tapes I don't care about for all the tweaking. Does anyone know if the newer model EZCaps capture progressive or interlaced, model 172 for example?
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  16. I am using Hauppauge USB-Live2 with good success. It captures interlaced with Huffyuv codec for example, with DVD recorder in passthrough. I have no experience with EZCaps models.
    A slow PC, aggressive virus scanners or a slow storage medium (slow internal or external HDD) can also be responsible for dropped frames btw.
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    Sharc,

    I'm going with your recommendation, and I ordered a Hauppauge USB-Live2 today, should receive it this Tuesday. My pc is plenty fast for capture, i5-8400 six core, 32 gb of ram and the capture drive is a Samsung SSD. I've turned everything off in the operating system, well as close to a safe boot as possible. I don't use 3rd party antivirus of any kind.

    Last night, I took one of my capture dvd's, ripped the dvd with cleverffmpeg, I upscaled with vapoursynth, ran a couple light filters on it, am just watching it now and it came out amazing. I left is at 4:3 DAR and am watching on a Sony UHD tv with very good result.

    I will try for better captures next week. Thank you for your advice.
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    My Hauppauge USB Live 2 came today, much earlier than expected thank you Amazon. This is a capture I did, I had to change a lot of the timing settings in Virtualdub 1.10, JVC VCR to ES15 S-Video passthrough to the Live 2 dongle. What an amazing improvement.

    https://files.videohelp.com/u/84671/happauge%20capture%20usb%20vdub%201.10.avi
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  19. Cool!
    Interlaced TFF capture. Glad you got it right now. Never give up, right?
    (You may also consider to capture to YUV 4:2:2 (YUY2) rather than RGB as many Avisynth filters and encoders work in the Y,Cb,Cr color space).
    Last edited by Sharc; 30th Jan 2022 at 18:02.
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    Sharc, Exactly, I'm not a quitter! I'm quite pleased with the initial capture and thank you for the push for my 4th USB dongle. I'm not sure how I managed RGB but that's fixable. Thank you for pushing me to the Hauppage USB Live 2 dongle, it made a world of difference.
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  21. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    There is baked in interlacing effects, Something is terribly wrong with your sample, That's not how an interlaced video should look like, I even put in in vdub and separated fields and I could still see the comb teeth effect.
    Last edited by dellsam34; 30th Jan 2022 at 18:55.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    There is baked in interlacing effects, Something is terribly wrong with your sample, That's not how an interlaced video should look like, I even put in in vdub and separated fields and I could still see the comb teeth effect.
    I wonder if that "look" is due to the sharpening? There are certainly some halos in the video.
    Perhaps turn off the sharpening and all "enhancements" in the VCR. Unless it's caused by the capture device.
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  23. Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    I wonder if that "look" is due to the sharpening? There are certainly some halos in the video.
    Perhaps turn off the sharpening and all "enhancements" in the VCR.....
    This, and you may also want to disable the Noise Reduction ("AV-In NR") of the ES-15. It's usually better to do any filtereing in AviSynth post-processing.
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    Back to the drawing board...
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    There is baked in interlacing effects, Something is terribly wrong with your sample, That's not how an interlaced video should look like, I even put in in vdub and separated fields and I could still see the comb teeth effect.
    Seriously?? What teeth??

    Image
    [Attachment 63127 - Click to enlarge]

    (VDub Muksun Deinterlace)
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    Dupe.
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  27. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    There is baked in interlacing effects, Something is terribly wrong with your sample, That's not how an interlaced video should look like, I even put in in vdub and separated fields and I could still see the comb teeth effect.
    Like Alwyn, I'm not seeing any combing after a separatefields() or bob() or qtgmc().
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  28. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I'm not seeing any combing after a separatefields() or bob() or qtgmc().
    So why there is a large transision between the two fields even in slow movement scenes, look at the horse rider feet, I could not remove the interlacing effects no matter what. Havn't tried de-interlacing the footage though but it has a weird look to it. Something is wrong.
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  29. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I'm not seeing any combing after a separatefields() or bob() or qtgmc().
    So why there is a large transision between the two fields even in slow movement scenes, look at the horse rider feet, I could not remove the interlacing effects no matter what. Havn't tried de-interlacing the footage though but it has a weird look to it. Something is wrong.
    I still don't see what you're referring to. Can you provide a sample image that clearly shows the issue? I see aliasing artifacts but that always happens with SeprateFields() or Bob().
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  30. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Oh well I deleted the sample already, but it did play strangly in both VLC and MPC-HC, I mean that's not what I would expect from a lossless AVI file and I work with tons of AVI files from capturing, but that simple was different..
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