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  1. There are two DVDs that I'd like to combine and preferebly without re-encoding.

    They seem to both be PAL, same FPS, same resolution, etc. only they won't truly merge.
    That is, TMPGenc CAN do it, if I set it to "link clips", but then it wants to re-encode one of them.
    Now, if that's the way it is, OK, I'll live.
    But I am curious what the cause is though.

    Can anyone shed light?

    This is source 1:
    General
    Complete name : VTS_01_1.VOB
    Format : MPEG-PS
    File size : 90.5 MiB
    Duration : 2 min 33 s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 4 948 kb/s

    Video
    ID : 224 (0xE0)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings : BVOP
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Default
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
    Format settings, picture structure : Frame
    Duration : 2 min 33 s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 4 466 kb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 8 250 kb/s
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 576 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 4:3
    Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
    Standard : PAL
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Interlaced
    Scan order : Top Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.431
    Time code of first frame : 01:46:50:20
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    GOP, Open/Closed : Closed
    Stream size : 81.7 MiB (90%)

    Audio #1
    ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Commercial name : Dolby Digital
    Muxing mode : DVD-Video
    Duration : 2 min 33 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 192 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel layout : L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Delay relative to video : -144 ms
    Stream size : 3.51 MiB (4%)
    Service kind : Complete Main

    Audio #2
    ID : 189 (0xBD)-129 (0x81)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Commercial name : Dolby Digital
    Muxing mode : DVD-Video
    Duration : 2 min 33 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 192 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel layout : L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Delay relative to video : -144 ms
    Stream size : 3.51 MiB (4%)
    Service kind : Complete Main

    Menu
    And this is 2:
    General
    Complete name : VTS_01_1.VOB
    Format : MPEG-PS
    File size : 222 MiB
    Duration : 4 min 8 s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 7 517 kb/s

    Video
    ID : 224 (0xE0)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings : BVOP
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Default
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12
    Format settings, picture structure : Frame
    Duration : 4 min 8 s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 6 983 kb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 8 000 kb/s
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 576 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 4:3
    Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
    Standard : PAL
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Interlaced
    Scan order : Bottom Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.674
    Time code of first frame : 00:08:15:09
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    GOP, Open/Closed : Closed
    Stream size : 207 MiB (93%)

    Audio #1
    ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Commercial name : Dolby Digital
    Muxing mode : DVD-Video
    Duration : 4 min 8 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 192 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel layout : L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Delay relative to video : -160 ms
    Stream size : 5.68 MiB (3%)
    Service kind : Complete Main

    Audio #2
    ID : 189 (0xBD)-129 (0x81)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Commercial name : Dolby Digital
    Muxing mode : DVD-Video
    Duration : 4 min 8 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 192 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel layout : L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Delay relative to video : -160 ms
    Stream size : 5.68 MiB (3%)
    Service kind : Complete Main

    Menu
    My only guess is, that it could be the GOP? (It's not the different number of audio tracks, I ruled that out.)
    Using TMPGenc DVD Author 3.
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  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Bitrate.


    Field-order is also different.
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  3. Try demuxing to elementary streams, appending the elementary streams, then muxing back to VOB.
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  4. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    If you want to make a new DVD just put them in two different titlesets and make the second one play after the first.

    If you want to have one large MPG or VOB file for PC playback try as jagabo suggested.

    Mixed field order is no problem in MPEG2 as every GOP has a sequence header which contains the TFF=true/false flag and thus it may change at GOP boundaries. Not sure if mixing within the same file (titleset) is DVD compliant, probably not.
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  5. Two titles isn't going to work for what I had in mind. It needs to be play back seamlessly.
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Try demuxing to elementary streams, appending the elementary streams, then muxing back to VOB.
    Thanks, worth a try. What kind of (de)mux program did you have in mind? MPG2 stream copies showed the same problem.
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    I'd be inclined to try tsmuxer. Use add/join to append the 2nd part, create the TS, use MKVtoolnix to make an MKV,
    feed it to AVStoDVD or similar
    Last edited by davexnet; 14th Dec 2021 at 09:19.
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  7. VOB files aren't meant to be interpreted alone. The IFO files can contain important instructions on what frames to use/skip etc. The most foolproof method is to use VOB2MPG to parse the DVD files (IFO, BUP, VOB) and save the result as MPG file(s). Then work with those MPG files.

    But sometimes you can work with the VOB files alone. I would use ffmpeg to demux, append, and mux. Here's a script that will append video1.vob and video2.vob to a new VOB called new.vob:

    Code:
    REM demux the two source files:
    ffmpeg -i source1.vob -c copy source1.m2v -c copy source1.ac3
    ffmpeg -i source2.vob -c copy source2.m2v -c copy source2.ac3
    
    REM build lists for concat:
    echo file 'source1.m2v' >vid.txt
    echo file 'source2.m2v' >>vid.txt
    
    echo file 'source1.ac3' >aud.txt
    echo file 'source2.ac3' >>aud.txt
    
    REM concat video and audio streams
    ffmpeg -y -f concat -safe 0 -i vid.txt -c copy new.m2v
    ffmpeg -y -f concat -safe 0 -i aud.txt -c copy new.ac3
    
    REM mux new video and audio streams:
    ffmpeg -r 25 -fflags +genpts -i new.m2v -i new.ac3 -c copy new.vob
    
    REM delete temp files:
    del source1.m2v
    del source1.ac3
    del source2.m2v
    del source2.ac3
    del vid.txt
    del aud.txt
    del new.m2v
    del new.ac3
    Put that in a batch file in the same folder as the two source videos then double click on it. ffmpeg.exe must be in your search path. If not, just change the path in each call to ffmpeg. For example the first call might be changed to something like:

    Code:
    "C:\Program Files\ffmpeg\bin\ffmpeg.exe" -i source1.vob -c copy source1.m2v -c copy source1.ac3
    Note that the script is for 25 fps videos. When working with other frame rates change the "-r 25" to the appropriate frame rate.
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  8. Member
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    VOB files aren't meant to be interpreted alone. The IFO files can contain important instructions on what frames to use/skip etc.
    I'm working on a project that has lossless AVI, M2TS and VOB's. When trying to play the files in my NLE it sometimes loses audio or jumps around in the timeline. Is this because not all VOB's aren't meant to be interpreted alone?
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  9. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    VOB files aren't meant to be interpreted alone. The IFO files can contain important instructions on what frames to use/skip etc. The most foolproof method is to use VOB2MPG to parse the DVD files (IFO, BUP, VOB) and save the result as MPG file(s). Then work with those MPG files.
    Thanks. VOB2MPG didn't work by the way, but it was worth a shot.
    Still to try the other thing (or combining them "unlinked" and then processing the result).
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  10. Originally Posted by Spiny Norman View Post
    VOB2MPG didn't work
    What does that mean? Just saying something didn't work doesn't help us help you.
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  11. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    Did you try jagabo's ffmpeg script?

    Another way of combining (or how I would do it) is to demux using whatever does the job and then use Cuttermaran to join the elementary streams.
    Last edited by Skiller; 15th Dec 2021 at 08:58. Reason: typo
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  12. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by Spiny Norman View Post
    VOB2MPG didn't work
    What does that mean? Just saying something didn't work doesn't help us help you.
    It made no difference.
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  13. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    gop problem m3n15 vs m3n12. not the same in any way. re-encoded both with the same encoder/settings. then combine.
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  14. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    GOP structures (length and P-B frame pattern) don't need to match... Actually, even each single GOP may have a different length and structure and it wouldn't matter.

    The first file limits GOP length to 15 frames, which is the maximum for PAL DVD, and the second only uses 12 frames maximum.
    I'm more worried about one being top field first and the other bottom field first.
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  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    not all VOB's aren't meant to be interpreted alone?
    None are.

    A VOB is a Video OBjects file, part of the DVD-Video structure. It's not a video file, it's a structure file with video.

    These files can almost never simply be used as-is, be it an NLE, or sometimes even playback.
    Very rarely it is possible, but only from certain very basic home DVD recorders.

    Originally Posted by Skiller
    I'm more worried about one being top field first and the other bottom field first.
    This actually doesn't matter, if encoded correctly. But it is messy, and best avoided. I always hated those.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
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  16. @OP
    You could try clever FFmpeg-GUI.
    Load your first vob, click main, click multiplex, set ts as container, click multiplex.



    If done, click change source file, click source file, select your second vob. Then multiplex it to ts container like above.
    If done, click change source file, click source file, select the first converted ts file.
    Click add file and add the second converted ts.
    Then click join.



    Done.
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