Some years ago I had a bunch of super 8 movies digitized. They were digitized to 2 sets of files, a pro-res set that doubled every 3rd frame to bring the 18fps up to 24fps, so that set is good as is. But I also had a set of uncompressed files made. The uncompressed files are of the actual frames, but it's still set as a 24fps file, so it plays too fast. But it has an accurate representation of the frames on the original movies.
Uh.....what can I do with these files?
I've not been able to figure out anything useful to do with them. I can pull them into a Sony Vegas session, and I've figured out how to create a Vegas session to be 18fps. But, I can't figure out how to pull in the file and have it set properly.
I can set the playback speed to .750, but then the frames still drift and get to a point where the frame of the project is in between 2 frames of the movie. Not sure why I can't get it to work out perfectly there, apparently 24 actually means 23.976.....because keeping frame rates at even numbers would just make things too simple, and we can't have that.
What's the best practice at this point? Is there something you'd recommend I do with the uncompressed files to get them in an 18fps format? Or is the pro-res 24fps files with the doubled frames the best option for super 8?
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What's the final output format? Unless you're wanting to create an "industry compliant" video for a DVD or Bluray, why not just keep it at 18fps if Vegas can convert it to 18fps? If you're going to create an MKV or MP4, 18fps should be fine. I know nothing about Vegas so I can't help there.
Avisynth functions Resize8 Mod - Audio Speed/Meter/Wave - FixBlend.zip - Position.zip
Avisynth/VapourSynth functions CropResize - FrostyBorders - CPreview (Cropping Preview) -
I know nothing about Vegas either. But surely using any editor is going to be a compromise.
What you might wish to try is quite a basic editor avidemux. Once you change the video from 'copy' you can select various filters.
One is Changefps which will also alter the run time.
The other is resamplefps which leave the runtime the same.
But the real tool for this is, I guess, avisynth. I would suggest you extract a short sample of the video with avidemux and A/B markers and upload that as an attachment here. Then one can determine just what is in the 24fps uncompressed and the best way forward. -
Keep it at 18 fps? The problem is - it isn't at 18 fps. It's at 24 - and plays too fast. How do I get a file that is at 18fps?
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Use Avidemux, change the video from "Copy" to say (pick your format) I use Mpeg4 AVC (x264), then click on "Filters" and Change FPS to 18 this will change the duration i.e. slowing it down.
[Attachment 62063 - Click to enlarge]It's not important the problem be solved, only that the blame for the mistake is assigned correctly -
I'm assuming the uncompressed file has unique frames , no duplicates
What does vegas think the fps is ? What does it say in the clip bin ? What does mediainfo say ?
If it's 24000/1001 (23.976), you'd use 0.75075 . If it's 24/1 you'd use 0.75
The other option is to patch the uncompressed files to 18fps before importing, depending on what type of uncompressed file and container . Or slow it down in avisynth or vdub, and re-export uncompressed again. Patching would be faster than having to re-write the entire file out again, but it depends on what type of file
One issue in many NLE's, including vegas, is different types of "uncompressed" get treated differently. So the type of "uncompressed", the pixel format and fourcc matters -
Here's mediainfo on one of the uncompressed files
[Attachment 62064 - Click to enlarge]
Trying to use avidemux, the video doesn't play right - pretty screen of random colors.
Vegas thinks the fps is 23.976. Vegas only lets me set playback speed up to 3 decimal places, so my only options are .750 or .751, either way the frames drift from the project's frames. So that option is out.
Yes - patching the file - hopefully with the media info we can come up with the best method. I'd rather not have to do a conversion from one format to another, anything that would add a digital generation to the files, so if it were possible to just patch these files to be 18fps, that would be ideal. -
Oh well. Twas worth a go. Probably does not like that bitrate. Quite 'severe' for 'uncompressed'.
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For MOV files you can use AMCDX video patcher
https://mogurenko.com/2021/01/29/amcdx-video-patcher-v0-6-7/
For "digital generation", if you used uncompressed to uncompressed in the same pixel format, there is no loss.
You should use mediainfo (view=>text) to see the fourcc code. The "simple" view you pasted omits that information -
I can't find anything identified as "fourcc"
General
Complete name : E:\Home Movies - raw files\Super8_Uncomp2\A01-UNCOMP2.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 8.42 GiB
Duration : 2 min 31 s
Overall bit rate : 477 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2011-08-03 19:34:47
Tagged date : UTC 2011-08-03 20:05:52
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
Media/UUID : B0CCEA69-5024-481E-8425-AE137D1DCE54
Video
ID : 1
Format : YUV
Codec ID : v210
Codec ID/Hint : AJA Video Systems Xena
Duration : 2 min 31 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 477 Mb/s
Width : 1 280 pixels
Clean aperture width : 1 248 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Clean aperture height : 702 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Clean aperture display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 21.600
Stream size : 8.42 GiB (100%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2011-08-03 19:34:47
Tagged date : UTC 2011-08-03 20:05:51
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Other
ID : 2
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 2 min 31 s
Frame rate : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS
Time code of first frame : 01:00:00:00
Time code, striped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2011-08-03 20:05:51
Tagged date : UTC 2011-08-03 20:05:51 -
The fourcc is "v210" ; it's just uncompressed 10bit 422 in a packed configuration
In AMCDX, go to the 2nd tab "metadata editor", open file button . In the Frame Rate area, left click and there should be a drop down menu of options. But now that I look at it, 18 fps is not an option anyways...
There are some mac tools that can do this , but not many on windows that can do it properly . Mov container is a bit tricky with various atoms and timecode entries
These 2 options work for sure:
Another option is to re-wrap (stream copy) to AVI container, then use AVIFrate . "AVI" is really a windows specific container and there are utilities that can handle it
Or AssumeFPS(18) in avisynth, then encode to v210 again. No quality loss. You can choose MOV or AVI container (e.g. in vdub2) -
Code:
Codec ID : v210
https://www.fourcc.org/pixel-format/yuv-v210/ -
I'm not up to date on current mac tools, there used to be one called Dumpster, but I can't find a download anymore.
https://pcloadletter.co.uk/tag/dumpster/
https://developer.apple.com/quicktime/quicktimeintro/tools/
It's tricky for MOV, because there are a bunch of atoms that need to be edited
https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform-software-showcase/146035-qt-frame-rate-change-pl...ml#post1030877
It might be less compatible in some programs if you miss some entries or don't do it properly
https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/high-definition-video-editing-solutions/472820-changing-f...-mov-file.html
But if you re-encode it to v210, it's certain to work and no quality loss -
This seems to work in vegas too. It's just stream copying and changing the timescale . I don't know if all atoms are written ok, but it seems to work in a few programs, framecount is correct . Quicktime movie inspector says "18.00 fps" so it's probably ok everywhere
Code:ffmpeg -i input.mov -c copy -video_track_timescale 18 output.mov
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This is purely theorycal not sure if it is feasible so don't beat me over it, 60p or 60 frames a second will make each frame repeat 3 times and every 3rd frame repeat 4 times, Meaning that out of the 18 frames: 1st frame 3 times + 2nd frame 3 times + 3rd frame 4 times (3+3+4=10) and so on 6 times a second which equals to 60 frames a second. but not sure if it's doable. It is essentially a conventional pulldown but with higher frame count for less flicker.
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Last edited by jagabo; 29th Nov 2021 at 20:14.
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Essentially but in the progressive domain, Is there a script to achieve just that? I mean 18p to 60p assuming the resolution is 1440x1080 4:3 lossless AVI.
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ChangeFPS. I'm assuming you want 60/1 . If you want "59.94" (or 60000/1001) , use ChangeFPS(60000,1001)
Code:#18FPS source ChangeFPS(60)
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In AviSynth:
Code:ChangeFPS(60)
Code:ConvertFPS(60)
Code:ChangeFPS(60000, 1001) # or ConvertFPS(60000, 1001), both give 59.94 fps AssumeTFF() SeparateFields() SelectEvery(4,0,3) Weave() # output is 29.97i
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Thank you guys, Good to know and I hope the OP finds it informative as well.
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