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  1. As stated 4K youtube video (2160p60 HDR @~30Mbps here) is currently available as vp9 or av1.

    4K av1 should offer slightly better quality, but will only play on some newer devices.
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    Originally Posted by butterw View Post
    As stated 4K youtube video (2160p60 HDR @~30Mbps here) is currently available as vp9 or av1.

    4K av1 should offer slightly better quality, but will only play on some newer devices.
    That's true. However, since YouTube is an immensely popular website, doesn't it makes sense to buy a new PC that supports both AV1 decoding and VP9 decoding if possible? Maybe wait for the price of new hardware to come down a bit and for the release of more Alder Lake CPUs?
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 2nd Dec 2021 at 11:43.
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  3. AV1 is likely to become very popular over the next few years given it's royalty free. Once there are some good hardware encoders, and decoders are widespread, it it may become the dominant video codec. All the big hardware and software developers are supporting it:

    https://aomedia.org/membership/members/
    https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22775150/netflix-av1-codec-tv-streaming-ps4-pro

    Of course, technology doesn't stand still and the consortium is already working on its successor, AV2.
    Last edited by jagabo; 2nd Dec 2021 at 11:55.
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    AV1 is likely to become very popular over the next few years given it's royalty free. Once there are some good hardware encoders, and decoders are widespread, it it may become the dominant video codec. All the big hardware and software developers are supporting it:

    https://aomedia.org/membership/members/
    https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22775150/netflix-av1-codec-tv-streaming-ps4-pro

    Of course, technology doesn't stand still and the consortium is already working on its successor, AV2.
    If Netflix is also using AV1 then it makes even more sense to get a computer that supports it.
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  5. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    If Netflix is also using AV1 then it makes even more sense to get a computer that supports it.
    Eventually, yes. Or if you are buying a computer for other reasons now. But I wouldn't buy a new computer now just to able to play AV1 video. There's not enough of it and everything that's currently available in AV1 is also available in other codecs (VP9, HEVC, AVC).
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    If Netflix is also using AV1 then it makes even more sense to get a computer that supports it.
    Eventually, yes. Or if you are buying a computer for other reasons now. But I wouldn't buy a new computer now just to able to play AV1 video. There's not enough of it and everything that's currently available in AV1 is also available in other codecs (VP9, HEVC, AVC).
    My new laptop will support AV1 decoding but I'm not yet making any plans to update anything else that doesn't support it.

    ...but had I known that changes made to the latest version of Windows 10 would eliminate my ability to play my small UHD Blu-ray collection with PowerDVD Ultra and that Windows 11 will also not support it, I would definitely have built my HTPC using an 11th gen Intel CPU as well.
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    Dear all

    Many thanks for your informative contributions. I think I am going for Ryzen 5 and RTX 3060.

    Now, would you be kind enough to advise me on a decent 27 inches 4k monitor to replace my old one?
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    Originally Posted by shaema View Post
    Dear all

    Many thanks for your informative contributions. I think I am going for Ryzen 5 and RTX 3060.

    Now, would you be kind enough to advise me on a decent 27 inches 4k monitor to replace my old one?
    I'm guessing that you want G-sync but are there other specific features that you want? Do you have a budget in mind for the monitor? If your budget is tight, would QHD resolution work for you to save some money?
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  9. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    An ASUS VP28UQG 28" monitor would be good for uhd gaming.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by shaema View Post
    Dear all

    Many thanks for your informative contributions. I think I am going for Ryzen 5 and RTX 3060.

    Now, would you be kind enough to advise me on a decent 27 inches 4k monitor to replace my old one?
    I'm guessing that you want G-sync but are there other specific features that you want? Do you have a budget in mind for the monitor? If your budget is tight, would QHD resolution work for you to save some money?
    Thanks

    I think I would prefer an IPS or VA panel as I am interested in high quality/contrast imaging, 4k video clips and occasional 4k gaming . My budget is around £500.
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    Philips E-line 278E1A 27" might fit your bill,i hope you meant 3060ti as a 3060 is way less powerful.
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    Originally Posted by shaema View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by shaema View Post
    Dear all

    Many thanks for your informative contributions. I think I am going for Ryzen 5 and RTX 3060.

    Now, would you be kind enough to advise me on a decent 27 inches 4k monitor to replace my old one?
    I'm guessing that you want G-sync but are there other specific features that you want? Do you have a budget in mind for the monitor? If your budget is tight, would QHD resolution work for you to save some money?
    Thanks

    I think I would prefer an IPS or VA panel as I am interested in high quality/contrast imaging, 4k video clips and occasional 4k gaming . My budget is around £500.
    I'm not having much luck so far. Every UHD monitor I find that is good for both gaming and watching video is well beyond your budget.
    The best thing I have found so far is a nice 27-inch 1440p monitor from Samsung for under £500 but its curved: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Odyssey-LC27G73TQSRXXU-Curved-Monitor/dp/B08WX9LJBW/

    Also this non-curved model from LG: https://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-Ultragear-27GL83A-B-27-Inch-Compatible/dp/B07XLDLZPF/
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 3rd Dec 2021 at 15:40. Reason: Added LG monitor
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    Originally Posted by johns0 View Post
    Philips E-line 278E1A 27" might fit your bill,i hope you meant 3060ti as a 3060 is way less powerful.
    Dear johns0

    Thanks for your reply. I have had a look at this monitor specs and unfortunately it doesn't have speakers which I didn't mention in my humble requirements.

    Yes it is the 3060 ti I meant
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by shaema View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by shaema View Post
    Dear all

    Many thanks for your informative contributions. I think I am going for Ryzen 5 and RTX 3060.

    Now, would you be kind enough to advise me on a decent 27 inches 4k monitor to replace my old one?
    I'm guessing that you want G-sync but are there other specific features that you want? Do you have a budget in mind for the monitor? If your budget is tight, would QHD resolution work for you to save some money?
    Thanks

    I think I would prefer an IPS or VA panel as I am interested in high quality/contrast imaging, 4k video clips and occasional 4k gaming . My budget is around £500.
    I'm not having much luck so far. Every UHD monitor I find that is good for both gaming and watching video is well beyond your budget.
    The best thing I have found so far is a nice 27-inch 1440p monitor from Samsung for under £500 but its curved: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Odyssey-LC27G73TQSRXXU-Curved-Monitor/dp/B08WX9LJBW/

    Also this non-curved model from LG: https://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-Ultragear-27GL83A-B-27-Inch-Compatible/dp/B07XLDLZPF/
    Thanks for your response

    These two monitors have excellent specs but again no speakers and they are not 3160*2160.

    Could I ask your opinion about:

    1 - ASUS ProArt Display PA279CV Professional Monitor at £478

    2 - Dell 27 4K UHD Monitor | S2721QS - 68.47cm(27") at £330
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    I would buy external speakers,much better quality than builtin monitor speakers.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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    The ASUS ProArt Display PA279CV Professional Monitor is a very nice monitor. It has great specs for SDR video and it is already calibrated. It's probably a great choice for graphics work and photographic editing as well.

    It may also be OK for watching HDR-10 video but probably not ideal for that. The specs say it has a 10-bit panel (8-bit+FRC) and supports HDR-10. It has a DCI-P3 Preset but the specs don't say what percentage of the DCI-P3 color space is covered or say anything about how bright it can get for HDR.

    The response time is 5ms(GTG) and the refresh rate is 60Hz which are adequate for gaming but not ideal. The specs say it supports VRR Adaptive-Sync. I guess that's VESA Adaptive Sync which means AMD's FreeSync will work but Nvidia's G-Sync probably won't. [Edit]I found out on Dec. 4 that Nvidia's recent cards can work with Adaptive Sync. [End Edit]

    You will probably have no use for the built-in monitor speakers if you already have external speakers for your current PC.

    [Edit]The IPS panel provides better color and wider viewing angle than a VA panel but black won't be as dark as on a VA panel.

    I haven't looked at the Dell S2721QS 27 4K UHD Monitor yet.

    [Edit] I found some review for the Dell S2721QS
    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dell-s2712qs
    https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tools/compare/dell-ultrasharp-u2720q-vs-dell-s2721qs/82...threshold=0.10

    The The ASUS ProArt Display PA279CV is a better monitor if you can afford it.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 4th Dec 2021 at 13:01.
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  17. I think people are over estimating the requirements for playing back AV1 video:

    https://www.elecard.com/videos

    I can play all the AV1 videos on the above page using just an Ice Lake based 1035G1.
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    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    I think people are over estimating the requirements for playing back AV1 video:

    https://www.elecard.com/videos

    I can play all the AV1 videos on the above page using just an Ice Lake based 1035G1.
    I have a Comet Lake processor, i5-10400, which is also considered a 10th generation processor. It has Intel UHD Graphics 630, the same as my 8th gen Coffee Lake i5-8400 processor. Neither can play AV1 at 4K resolution (or any other resolution) with Quick Sync Video decoding.

    Ice Lake Core-i mobile processors are unlike the 10th gen desktop i5 processors. It's more like a 10.5 gen processor. The architecture has more in common with the Intel 11th gen Rocket Lake processors, which can play AV1, although it isn't exactly the same. The Intel Ark page for your processor lists the graphics as "Intel® UHD Graphics for 10th Gen Intel® Processors". Its mobile successor is Tiger Lake, which can play AV1 using Intel QSV decoding.

    shaema prefers AMD processors (no AV1 decoding yet) so he has to get AV1 decoding from his Nvidia graphics card. (Only the new RTX 3000 series cards offer AV1 decoding.)
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 4th Dec 2021 at 23:51.
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  19. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    I think people are over estimating the requirements for playing back AV1 video:

    https://www.elecard.com/videos

    I can play all the AV1 videos on the above page using just an Ice Lake based 1035G1.
    I have a Comet Lake processor, i5-10400, which is also considered a 10th generation processor. It has Intel UHD Graphics 630, the same as my 8th gen Coffee Lake i5-8400 processor. Neither can play AV1 at 4K resolution (or any other resolution) with Quick Sync Video decoding.

    Ice Lake Core-i mobile processors are unlike the 10th gen desktop i5 processors. It's more like a 10.5 gen processor. The architecture has more in common with the Intel 11th gen Rocket Lake processors, which can play AV1, although it isn't exactly the same. The Intel Ark page for your processor lists the graphics as "Intel® UHD Graphics for 10th Gen Intel® Processors". Its mobile successor is Tiger Lake, which can play AV1 using Intel QSV decoding.

    shaema prefers AMD processors (no AV1 decoding yet) so he has to get AV1 decoding from his Nvidia graphics card. (Only the new RTX 3000 series cards offer AV1 decoding.)
    Also, those are all 25p 8-bit SDR. My i9 9900K can play them with software decoding. My Chromecast with Google TV can't play them smoothly. Try the 60p 10-bit HDR file I uploaded in post #28. Does it play smoothly for you? It doesn't for me. Though I may have a further issues of scaling since my monitor is running at 2560x1440 and only have an SDR display.
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  20. The Elecard videos are being played back in software mode via smplayer in Win 10 as confirmed with Task Manager.

    The sample jagabo posted in #28 is a beast of a file, this system can play it back but definitely not smoothly.

    Those types of files to me are a much better benchmark for deciding how a system performs, encoding benchmarks, while they can be exciting, just don't have the same real world impact, because even with the fastest system, you set the encode and walk away or work on other stuff or take a nap or something else.

    But with a playback benchmark, that is something that directly affects real world experience and will make it seem like you got your money's worth.

    I wonder what kind of system it would take to play that back smoothly in software mode.
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  21. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    My system plays that file with no issues.
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  22. I assume that the GTX1070 you are sporting provides hardware decode support for 60p 10-bit HDR AV1 but there's no way that the 5600x in your system is capable of playing it back smoothly in software mode when jacabo's 9900K can't play it back smoothly in software mode.
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  23. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Nope,i turned off the hardware acceleration and it still plays with no problems.
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    AV1 is likely to become very popular over the next few years given it's royalty free.
    last i heard VP9 is royalty-free, per Google. i don't think being royalty-free will be a deciding factor in popularity. but i do question why many corporations push one format/encoding over another no matter which it is.

    is there an encoding that can keep the quality i am getting now with VP9 and give me a smaller file size in videos spanning a wide range of geometry sizes up to HD viewed expanded to HD? that's a factor that currently makes my decisions (though $25 256TB 256GB/s wear-free SSDs could change that).
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  25. Originally Posted by Skaperen View Post
    last i heard VP9 is royalty-free, per Google. i don't think being royalty-free will be a deciding factor in popularity.
    Netflix has been using VP9 for a while. And they're starting to use AV1. Youtube uses both. I believe Amazon uses VP9 now and they've said they will be using AV1 in the future (if they aren't already, they're one of the founding members of the AV1 consortium). Of course, what you get depends on what your playback device supports and what subscriptions you have. And most streaming services will continue to support AVC for quite a while because of it's near universal hardware support (aside from older devices like DVD players).

    Originally Posted by Skaperen View Post
    is there an encoding that can keep the quality i am getting now with VP9 and give me a smaller file size in videos spanning a wide range of geometry sizes up to HD viewed expanded to HD? that's a factor that currently makes my decisions (though $25 256TB 256GB/s wear-free SSDs could change that).
    AV1's goal is to achieve quality equivalent to HEVC and VP9 at half the bitrate (the reality isn't quite that good yet), especially with large frame sizes (4K and above). Many of the techniques used in the more modern codecs (HEVC, VP9, AV1) are most effective with large frames. You probably won't get much better results with resolutions below 1080p.
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    Hey jagabo,have tried turning off hardware acceleration in mpc-hc and play the av1 video you uploaded?Might be that the onboard video struggles with the video playback where as cpu only will play it good.
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  27. Some combinations of decoders and output devices result in "smooth" playback but the video is in slow motion. Ie, instead of playing at 60 fps it's playing at ~24 frames per second. The audio plays normally and stops after 1 minute (using the 1 minute sample clip) but the video continues to play for another minute and 25 seconds or so, until all ~3600 frames have been displayed. Unfortunately, the clip's content makes it hard to notice the A/V desync unless you let it play past 60 seconds.

    I'm using version 1.9.17 (64 bit) of MPCHC. I haven't found any other player that plays the video smoothly at the right speed.
    Last edited by jagabo; 6th Dec 2021 at 09:02.
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    My new laptop arrived today, much earlier than expected.

    I tested its ability to play AV1 by downloading jagabo's sample from this thread, the complete 2160p60 AV1 video from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkggXE5e2yk (as an mp4 fie) and the 4320p29.970 AV1 video from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTtBDJn1Lqg (as an mp4 file). All of them played smoothly on the laptop's 1080p display using the Windows 11 Movies and TV App, which I think was using the processor's Quick Sync Video Decoder, although these files, which included HDR, were not tone mapped, as far as I can tell. I could not get them to play even close to smoothly using VLC, MPC-BE or MPC-HC.

    [Edit] Processor: 11th Gen (Tiger Lake) Intel Core i5-1155G7 with Intel Iris Xe Graphics

    [Edit 2] My laptop received its first round of Windows updates last night, which I installed. Afterwards, I tried playing the LG demo video again with the Windows Movies and TV App. Colors are more vivid and the contrast is much greater than before. So it appears that something changed and the Movies and TV app is applying tone-mapping to simulate the HLG HDR now. The other video players still fail to play these videos smoothly. I don't know if I can change any settings to make them work better or if a new version needs to be released to improve their performance.

    [Edit 3]Using Task Manager's Performance tab, I verified that the Windows Movies and TV App is using the Tiger Lake iGPU for decoding 4K AV1 but VLC is using the CPU at basically 100% for decoding 4K AV1 and it can't quite keep up. MPC-HC and MPC-BE also can't play 4K AV1 video smoothly, so they are probably relying on the CPU for decoding as well. Since QSV support for AV1 is relatively new, it may take a little more time to add the ability to decode AV1 with QSV to VLC and the two MPC apps.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 14th Dec 2021 at 00:29. Reason: fix typos
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