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  1. In 2013 I created a blu-ray remux from the original Harry Brown blu-ray. the size of the file is 23.6GB
    Yesterday, I saw on the internet a remux of the same movie, but this one is 28GB. How does it make sense, if both files were not re-encoded? both remuxes were taken from the same blur-ay...


    the video part of the EPSiLON remux is 25GB while my remux is 23.6GB and that includes all audio as well. so the difference is about 4GB. how? the video bitrate is the same.

    Code:
    My remux:
    
    General
    Unique ID                                : 173281167900320573610166008008640781488 (0x825CBD2F7B4B355D804CB222494F5CB0)
    Complete name                            : *****\****\Harry.Brown.2009.RemuxOriginalQuality.DTS-HD.mkv
    Format                                   : Matroska
    Format version                           : Version 4
    File size                                : 23.6 GiB
    Duration                                 : 1 h 42 min
    Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
    Overall bit rate                         : 32.9 Mb/s
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-03-30 09:49:07
    Writing application                      : mkvmerge v6.1.0 ('Old Devil') built on Mar  2 2013 14:32:37
    Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.0 + libmatroska v1.4.0
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                           : High@L4.1
    Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
    Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
    Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
    Format settings, GOP                     : M=4, N=24
    Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
    Duration                                 : 1 h 42 min
    Bit rate mode                            : Variable
    Maximum bit rate                         : 35.0 Mb/s
    Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
    Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate mode                          : Constant
    Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
    Standard                                 : NTSC
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : Progressive
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : Yes
    Forced                                   : No
    Color range                              : Limited
    Color primaries                          : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
    
    Audio
    ID                                       : 2
    Format                                   : DTS XLL
    Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
    Commercial name                          : DTS-HD Master Audio
    Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
    Duration                                 : 1 h 42 min
    Bit rate mode                            : Variable
    Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
    Channel layout                           : C L R Ls Rs LFE
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate                               : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
    Bit depth                                : 24 bits
    Compression mode                         : Lossless
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : Yes
    Forced                                   : No
    
    Text
    ID                                       : 3
    Format                                   : PGS
    Muxing mode                              : zlib
    Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
    Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : Yes
    Forced                                   : No
    The one I saw online:
    Code:
    General
    
    Harry.Brown.2009.1080p.BluRay.REMUX.AVC.DTS-HD.MA.5.1-EPSiLON.mkv
    
    Format                                   : Matroska
    Format version                           : Version 4
    File size                                : 28.0 GiB
    Duration                                 : 1 h 43 min
    Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
    Overall bit rate                         : 38.9 Mb/s
    Movie name                               : Harry Brown (2009)
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-03-31 04:27:40
    Writing application                      : mkvmerge v32.0.0 ('Astral Progressions') 64-bit
    Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.7 + libmatroska v1.5.0
    IMDB                                     : tt1289406
    TMDB                                     : movie/25941
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                           : High@L4.1
    Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
    Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
    Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
    Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
    Duration                                 : 1 h 43 min
    Bit rate mode                            : Variable
    Bit rate                                 : 35.0 Mb/s
    Maximum bit rate                         : 36.0 Mb/s
    Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
    Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate mode                          : Constant
    Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.703
    Stream size                              : 25.2 GiB (90%)
    Title                                    : MPEG-4 AVC Video / 34998 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : Yes
    Forced                                   : No
    Color range                              : Limited
    Color primaries                          : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
    
    Audio #1
    ID                                       : 2
    Format                                   : DTS XLL
    Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
    Commercial name                          : DTS-HD Master Audio
    Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
    Duration                                 : 1 h 43 min
    Bit rate mode                            : Variable
    Bit rate                                 : 3 617 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
    Channel layout                           : C L R Ls Rs LFE
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate                               : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
    Bit depth                                : 24 bits
    Compression mode                         : Lossless
    Stream size                              : 2.61 GiB (9%)
    Title                                    : DTS-HD Master Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 3617 kbps / 24-bit
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : Yes
    Forced                                   : No
    
    Audio #2
    ID                                       : 3
    Format                                   : AC-3
    Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
    Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
    Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
    Duration                                 : 1 h 43 min
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
    Channel layout                           : L R
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Stream size                              : 142 MiB (0%)
    Title                                    : Commentary by director Daniel Barber, producer Kris Thykier and actor Michael Caine
    Language                                 : English
    Service kind                             : Complete Main
    Default                                  : No
    Forced                                   : No
    
    Text #1
    ID                                       : 4
    Format                                   : PGS
    Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
    Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
    Duration                                 : 1 h 35 min
    Bit rate                                 : 21.6 kb/s
    Count of elements                        : 1488
    Stream size                              : 14.8 MiB (0%)
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : No
    Forced                                   : No
    
    Text #2
    ID                                       : 5
    Format                                   : PGS
    Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
    Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
    Duration                                 : 1 h 39 min
    Bit rate                                 : 15.9 kb/s
    Count of elements                        : 1684
    Stream size                              : 11.3 MiB (0%)
    Title                                    : SDH
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : No
    Forced                                   : No
    
    Text #3
    ID                                       : 6
    Format                                   : PGS
    Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
    Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
    Duration                                 : 1 h 39 min
    Bit rate                                 : 59.3 kb/s
    Count of elements                        : 3536
    Stream size                              : 42.1 MiB (0%)
    Title                                    : Commentary by director Daniel Barber, producer Kris Thykier and actor Michael Caine
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : No
    Forced                                   : No
    
    Menu
    00:00:00.000                             : en:Chapter 1
    00:06:28.138                             : en:Chapter 2
    00:12:22.408                             : en:Chapter 3
    00:17:29.006                             : en:Chapter 4
    00:26:00.851                             : en:Chapter 5
    00:31:18.335                             : en:Chapter 6
    00:36:02.410                             : en:Chapter 7
    00:40:39.896                             : en:Chapter 8
    00:48:01.295                             : en:Chapter 9
    00:52:07.249                             : en:Chapter 10
    00:58:26.628                             : en:Chapter 11
    01:05:29.759                             : en:Chapter 12
    01:13:43.628                             : en:Chapter 13
    01:20:50.512                             : en:Chapter 14
    01:25:44.264                             : en:Chapter 15
    01:31:15.553                             : en:Chapter 16
    Thank you!
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  2. The streams are different. More bitrate for the videostream and more streams in the second movie.
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  3. Originally Posted by ProWo View Post
    The streams are different. More bitrate for the videostream and more streams in the second movie.
    bitrate is identical it's the same blu-ray...
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    It says 1hr42min in #1 and 1hr43min in #2. 1 minute could be the difference. Plus, there are slight differences in bitrate (35Mbps max vs 36). And the muxer writing library is different, so there would likely be different amount of overhead.

    Scott
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  5. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    It says 1hr42min in #1 and 1hr43min in #2. 1 minute could be the difference. Plus, there are slight differences in bitrate (35Mbps max vs 36). And the muxer writing library is different, so there would likely be different amount of overhead.

    Scott
    Hi Scott,
    That's 1 min difference... it cannot justify 4GB difference.
    As for the bitrate they are the same....

    "Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 35.0 Mb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 36.0 Mb/s"

    bitrate cannot be different it is the same blu-ray and both were not re-encoded.

    The writing library can affect the size that much?

    I guess both will look the same to the eye?

    Thanks!
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  6. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Either the discs they were ripped from WERE slightly different discs, encoded differently, or one of them was re-encoded, post-rip. Look at the CABAC - one says ref 4 frames while the other says ref 3 frames. That CANNOT change just because of a simple remux; it is an encoding setting.

    Scott
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  7. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Either the discs they were ripped from WERE slightly different discs, encoded differently, or one of them was re-encoded, post-rip. Look at the CABAC - one says ref 4 frames while the other says ref 3 frames. That CANNOT change just because of a simple remux; it is an encoding setting.

    Scott
    "one says ref 4 frames while the other says ref 3 frames"

    Does it mean that the one with ref 4 frames will look better? (it's larger in size)
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  8. Member Ennio's Avatar
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    No, more ref frames doesn't mean quality is better. Just take the one that looks best.

    Originally Posted by goveg View Post
    That's 1 min difference... it cannot justify 4GB difference.
    As for the bitrate they are the same....

    "Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 35.0 Mb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 36.0 Mb/s"
    1 minute difference is not the thing here.
    Look at the overall bitrates for the whole mkv at the top of each report.

    Overall bitrates differ by (38.9 - 32.9) = 6 mbit/sec.

    With 1h 42min (6120 sec) runtime this will will yield (6 x 6120) : (8 x 1024) = about 4.48 GB difference in my book.
    Last edited by Ennio; 15th Aug 2022 at 09:59.
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  9. The one you've found is a close reencode and not a remux
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  10. Originally Posted by Ennio View Post
    No, more ref frames doesn't mean quality is better. Just take the one that looks best.

    Originally Posted by goveg View Post
    That's 1 min difference... it cannot justify 4GB difference.
    As for the bitrate they are the same....

    "Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 35.0 Mb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 36.0 Mb/s"
    1 minute difference is not the thing here.
    Look at the overall bitrates for the whole mkv at the top of each report.

    Overall bitrates differ by (38.9 - 32.9) = 6 mbit/sec.

    With 1h 42min (6120 sec) runtime this will will yield (6 x 6120) : (8 x 1024) = about 4.48 GB difference in my book.
    If I look at the video of the first one, the Maximum bit rate is 35.0 Mb/s
    Moving to the second one, the maximum bit rate is 36.0 Mb/s
    Both have the same lossless audio track (the second21 one also has a lossy but that is only 142 MB lol
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  11. Originally Posted by s-mp View Post
    The one you've found is a close reencode and not a remux
    Do you mean the first one that w?
    I remuxed it myself full a full blu-ray, years ago...
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  12. Member Ennio's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by goveg View Post
    If I look at the video of the first one, the Maximum bit rate is 35.0 Mb/s
    Moving to the second one, the maximum bit rate is 36.0 Mb/s
    Both have the same lossless audio track (the second21 one also has a lossy but that is only 142 MB lol
    Maximum bitrate is something different than average bitrate.
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