Panasonic DVD recorder passthrough settings (DMR-ES10, DMR-ES15, DMR-ES25)

[lordsmurf]

The E75 is VHS/DVD only
EH75 is VHS/DVD/HDD from 2006 it seems. Confusing? Yeah

I just checked (couldn't last night), I have the EH75V. Never really used it outside testing (passthrough and VHS only).

Again, heavy SOB, to the point where it can bow a desk (so I have it on the floor when using, which isn't good for it, dust). Heavier than AG-1980, for those that have one. About 4x heavier than wide/deep JVC decks (7600, 9600-9911), more for smaller JVCs.

It has HDMI out, etc, but nothing good will come from it. Internal processing ruins video output.

[tugatomsk]

The E75 is VHS/DVD only
EH75 is VHS/DVD/HDD from 2006 it seems. Confusing? Yeah

I just checked (couldn't last night), I have the EH75V. Never really used it outside testing (passthrough and VHS only).

Again, heavy SOB, to the point where it can bow a desk (so I have it on the floor when using, which isn't good for it, dust). Heavier than AG-1980, for those that have one. About 4x heavier than wide/deep JVC decks (7600, 9600-9911), more for smaller JVCs.

It has HDMI out, etc, but nothing good will come from it. Internal processing ruins video output.

The EH75V is actually kinda enticing to me, but it's only available on ebay and it's much more expensive. That bit about it being a literal heavy weight doesn't help either.

So I'll most likely order the EH50 from VCRSHOP on Monday.

[Sharc]

So I'll most likely order the EH50 from VCRSHOP on Monday.

Double-check whether your intended purchase includes the remote if you want to save the extra time and efforts for searching a working remote afterwards.

[tugatomsk]

So I'll most likely order the EH50 from VCRSHOP on Monday.

Double-check whether your intended purchase includes the remote if you want to save the extra time and efforts for searching a working remote afterwards.

Thanks for the heads-up. I contacted them and they confirmed it does include the remote control.

[tugatomsk]

Dang, I knew I had forgotten to clarify something:

Does the EH50 present any grey/black screen blocking the image when the signal is too poor (like my Sony does) or if it there's at least an option to disable it? It'd be tremendous for me to be able to record the whole tape without having to worry about grey screens...

(And no, I haven't forgotten about how to deal with the HDD sleep mode message. )

[tugatomsk]

Another thing I could have brought up sooner:

The following link is the YouTube upload of one of many DVD recordings of Beta tapes made with my Sony DVR back in 2008.
https://youtu.be/dAJn1CZBdA0
(Notoriously from 4:30 onwards)

I have always noticed the tendency to blow out the whites. My concern is the EH50 performing even worse than that on that regard. If it's similar, however, I could live with i .

[Sharc]

Dang, I knew I had forgotten to clarify something:

Does the EH50 present any grey/black screen blocking the image when the signal is too poor (like my Sony does) or if it there's at least an option to disable it? It'd be tremendous for me to be able to record the whole tape without having to worry about grey screens...

See post #75 (just my experience).
At the end, VHS is still VHS, and a poor tape is a poor tape. Even the best gear won't be able to fix every defect.

Edit:
FWIW, checking the circuit diagrams: ES10 and EH50 are using identical A/V processing chips (same reference, same part identifier.)

[lordsmurf]

At the end, VHS is still VHS, and a poor tape is a poor tape. Even the best gear won't be able to fix every defect.

VHS can look far better than some think. You're probably comparing VHS to HD, but some people (probably not you) might make the mistake of thinking VHS has to look like a DVD that was dragged on the floor. Not so.

[Sharc]

VHS can look far better than some think.

Totally agree.

[tugatomsk]

Thank you all for your invaluable help. I'm finally confident enough to order the EH50.

When it arrives, I'll post some links with new tests comparing with the old tests with my current Sony. (It might help other users checking this thread).

[tugatomsk]

At the end, VHS is still VHS, and a poor tape is a poor tape. Even the best gear won't be able to fix every defect.

VHS can look far better than some think. You're probably comparing VHS to HD, but some people (probably not you) might make the mistake of thinking VHS has to look like a DVD that was dragged on the floor. Not so.

I agree. VHS and especially Beta can look pretty good if the recording and signal were originally good, and I have many recordings like that.

[oln]

Picked up a DMR-ES30V recently (sold as defective, so was very cheap). After replacing some bad caps in the power supply (same ELNA caps that go bad as in e.g the ES10) it's working fine. The european variant seems to have a combined dvd/system/io and power supply pcb (VCR part is on a separate PCB) which was a bit annoying as you have to take out the drive and take off the back plate to get the pcb out to work on. From images I've seen the US one seems to have a separate power supply board sitting over and behind the vcr mechanism instead which seems a bit more convenient for servicing.

It seems to output from the VHS side via the internal digitizer no matter what output I tried. Maybe one of the composite output being direct is only on US or later models, or maybe it depends on some setting. Seems to act similarly to the ES10 as expected but haven't done a lot of testing or anything. The AV-in NR setting is called Dubbing NR on this one, the DVD side needs to be set to the active one to access it and also the DVD-recorder menu (if the channel is set to TP you get the output from the VHS side.) Pressing the "function" button with the VHS side active brings up the VCR side settings thing.

[Eric-jan]

The DMR-ES30V has VHS fresh feature ?

[oln]

Yeah it's basically just a DMR-ES10 with a VCR.

[Eric-jan]

Neat ! it will be almost same as my ES35V which i'm very happy with, no need for any external TBC .. i'm using it with a NK-P60 (will cut off too high white levels) into a pro HDMI recorder, using the ProRes files for further to work on.
You should not use the SCART to capture from, only RCA or miniDIN > s-video or better the YUV component output on a ES35V model, the ES30V does only support the component for DVD i believe… looking at the manual now…

Fun fact: according to the manual the ES30V has 2 tuners one for recording onto VHS and one for recording onto DVD..

[tugatomsk]

Sorry for not replying for so long, buy since I got the Panasonic DH50, I've been performing tests and setting up the device to the best of my abilities using the info in this topic.

Judging by the menus, the EH50 really is a ES10 with an HDD.

It's performance is great. It does blow out the whites, but not any more than my Sony already did. Fortunately, the capturing device has enough range to lower the contrast in Virtualdub's procamp setting with good results.

As for lineTBC performance, it's also great. I know that frame dropping and frame insertion is more of a frameTBC thing, but, compared to my Sony, the EH50 handles everything nearly flawlessly. The only thing I have to be careful about it is when I can use lagarith or not. Some tapes/recordings seems to be more CPU demanding, and my i3-2100 has occasionally forced me to switch to Huffyuv due to sudden frame insertion with lagarith.

Another thing I discovered in virtualdub is to NOT select "VCR input" in the video capture filter settings menu, it hurts the image quality. I assume it's because the signal is coming from a DVR and not straight from a VHS or S-VHS.

The EH50 does allow to switch off greying out the lack of signal.

I also confirmed the appearance of the "HDD Sleep" warning on the image output 20mins after the device is turned on. One really has to wait out those 20mins before beginning capturing.

That SCART S-video adapter output trick does nothing to reduce the blowing of whites. What's worse, it adds a strange noise to the image.

Something else I found out regarding Virtualdub is that there's a great resampling variation during the first 15 seconds of recording. Only after those 15sec does the resampling slowly oscillates to circa 1.00000x (five more seconds). Only then I begin playback on the VCR.


So, for the moment, I'm very happy with the results. Maybe in the future I'll get a PAL S-VHS and a PAL Super Betamax, but for now, the EH50 will do just fine.

Thanks for all your help.

[Eric-jan]

DH50 must be EH50 ? and is PAL model ? has also "VHS fresh" i guess ?
Then this model has RGB on the SCART for a CRT tv and progressive mode on the RCA component output for LCD/OLED tv, (but not at the same time, according manual) cheap component to HDMI (NK-P60) converter will give also good image on LCD/OLED tv, NK-P60 will not change aspect ratio in any way.

btw. when you select an video input instead of an empty signal channel, there is no signal at all.
the grey image is with sync signal. but maybe this is different on a DVD/HDD only recorder, mine is with VHS deck.

[tugatomsk]

DH50 must be EH50 ? and is PAL model ? has also "VHS fresh" i guess ?
Then this model has RGB on the SCART for a CRT tv and progressive mode on the RCA component output for LCD/OLED tv, (but not at the same time, according manual) cheap component to HDMI (NK-P60) converter will give also good image on LCD/OLED tv, NK-P60 will not change aspect ratio in any way.

btw. when you select an video input instead of an empty signal channel, there is no signal at all.
the grey image is with sync signal. but maybe this is different on a DVD/HDD only recorder, mine is with VHS deck.

Yeah, I meant EH50, sorry for the confusion. It is the PAL version. It features "VHS fresh", which is Panasonic's linguo for lineTBC.

I'm capturing the video from the VCR connected via SCART to the EH50 which works as a passthrough to my PC capture device input. The connection between the EH50 and the capture device is done via S-Video.

[oln]

btw. when you select an video input instead of an empty signal channel, there is no signal at all.
the grey image is with sync signal. but maybe this is different on a DVD/HDD only recorder, mine is with VHS deck.

It's the same on the ES10, ES30V and EH57 I got at least, with no input (i.e no signal whatsoever, not unrecorded tape or tuner noise etc) there is no output. (The HDMI out on the EH57 will output a gray background in that case.)

Did some tests with my ES30V today, and one interesting thing was that it seemed to react differently when playing a lion king tape I got that has copy protection on it on the internal VCR compared to input from an external VCR playing it. It didn't have the bright/dark flashes at various points on the internal VCR unlike with external input (at least with 2 vcrs I tried with) on it, my EH57 or my pioneer DVR-440.

Need to test to what extent it clips whites though, seemed it did at least not clip much on the tape I posted a screen of my EH57 clipping on earlier in the thread. Seemed to only very slightly clip on external input from the vcr I tried on it, and not with the internal vcr. (Could also have to do with slight variations in signal strength from vcr too though, didn't use the same one last time, so can't say for sure, and would need to test on a recording with brighter output.)

The internal vcr playback does seem to be a bit prone to, not sure what the correct term for it is, noise/pattern near the head switch line. Can illustrate later what I mean by it. Seems newer panasonic (z mech and r4 mech) VCRs seem to be a bit prone to that in general for whatever reason.

[Eric-jan]

The component out can also be used, in progressive mode, Macrovision should then be no problem,there's not very much difference in quality, a little more detail, but most of the time more dirt of the recording (if any) is seen then, which isn't there anymore after h.264 compression.
Yeah, near the headswitching line you see noise which is moving in same pace as image content, which can be cropped when needed.
When switched to NTSC the comb filter option is blocked, but i can't see if there's any difference.
I noticed that differend converters or my BMD IS react different to high Intensity white flashes, my ODV converter caused my my Video Assist to overload and gave a black frame in the recording and a audio dropout, and like i said, the NK-P60 did not have this problem, so each device does matter, but the EH50 does look like a good choice for passthrough, but, indeed, RCA or s-video connections are better for capture, i use SCART for monitoring, video over SCART differ from those over RCA and s-video.
Component on the ES30V is only used for DVD player output.

[Skiller]

I also confirmed the appearance of the "HDD Sleep" warning on the image output 20mins after the device is turned on. One really has to wait out those 20mins before beginning capturing.

No, not needed.

Another way to avoid the "HDD sleep" message is to simply start the Panasonic's own recording to HDD and keep recording while capturing. It won't go into sleep then.

[Bogilein]

after the very informative contribution of jwillis84 about the Panasonic DVD Recorder devices from the USA and the international market.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403635-Panasonic-DVD-recorder-passthrough-settings...e3#post2666931

Here is a overview of all PAL Panasonic DVD Recorder as they were published in Germany.
The line-up should be complete.I have added some information about the devices, using video magazines and the German Panasonic website (on archive.org).

Explanation:
10bit,12bit: Video D/A Converter
...GB: Hard disk size
VHS: device with DVD & VHS drive
TBC: these devices were advertised with the integrated TBC for brilliant pictures when transferring from VHS to DVD.
(TBC): in the datasheet of the devices (on the website) a TBC is mentioned
HDMI: HDMI output
DVB-T, DVB-H, DVB-S, DVB-C: different types of digital video broadcasting

from the 2008 Panasonic DMR-EX71 I had no more access to the data sheets, therefore I can give no information whether the devices have a TBC

2002 Panasonic DMR-E20 ||10bit
2002 Panasonic DMR-E30 ||10bit
2002 Panasonic DMR-HS2 ||40GB,10bit
2003 Panasonic DMR-E100H ||80GB,10bit
2003 Panasonic DMR-E50 ||10bit
2003 Panasonic DMR-E60 ||10bit
2004 Panasonic DMR-E500H ||400GB,10bit
2004 Panasonic DMR-E53 ||10bit
2004 Panasonic DMR-E55 ||10bit
2004 Panasonic DMR-E65 ||10bit
2004 Panasonic DMR-E75V ||DVD+VHS,10bit
2004 Panasonic DMR-E85 ||80GB,10bit
2004 Panasonic DMR-E95H ||160GB,10bit
2005 Panasonic DMR-EH52 ||80GB,TBC,10bit
2005 Panasonic DMR-EH54 ||80GB,TBC,DVB-T,10bit
2005 Panasonic DMR-EH60 ||200GB,TBC,10bit
2005 Panasonic DMR-EH80V ||200GB + VHS,TBC,10bit
2005 Panasonic DMR-ES10 ||TBC,10bit
2005 Panasonic DMR-ES20 ||TBC,10bit
2005 Panasonic DMR-ES30 ||DVD+VHS,TBC,10bit
2006 Panasonic DMR-EH56 ||160GB,(TBC),12bit
2006 Panasonic DMR-EH65 ||250GB, (TBC),12bit,HDMI
2006 Panasonic DMR-ES15 ||TBC,12bit
2006 Panasonic DMR-ES35V ||DVD+VHS,TBC,12bit
2006 Panasonic DMR-EX75 ||160GB, DVB-T,HDMI,12bit,(TBC)
2006 Panasonic DMR-EX85 ||250GB, DVB-T,(TBC),12bit,HDMI
2006 Panasonic DMR-EX95V ||250GB,VHS,DVB-T,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2007 Panasonic DMR-EH575 ||160GB,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2007 Panasonic DMR-EH675 ||250GB,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2007 Panasonic DMR-EH775 ||400GB,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2007 Panasonic DMR-EX77E ||160GB,DVB-T,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2007 Panasonic DMR-EX80 ||160GB,DVB-S,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2007 Panasonic DMR-EX87 ||250GB,DVB-T,HDMI, (TBC), 12bit
2008 Panasonic DMR-EH585 ||250GB,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2008 Panasonic DMR-EH685 ||320GB,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2008 Panasonic DMR-EX71 ||160GB,DVB-S,HDMI,12bit
2008 Panasonic DMR-EX78 ||250GB,DVB-T,HDMI,12bit
2008 Panasonic DMR-EX80 ||160GB,DVB-S,HDMI,12bit
2008 Panasonic DMR-EX81 ||250GB,DVB-S, HDMI,12bit
2008 Panasonic DMR-EX88 ||400GB,DVB-T,HDMI,12bit
2008 Panasonic DMR-EX98V ||250GB,DVB-T,HDMI,VHS,12bit
2009 Panasonic DMR-EH495 ||160GB,HDMI,12bit
2009 Panasonic DMR-EH595 ||250GB,HDMI,12bit
2009 Panasonic DMR-EX72 ||160GB,DVB-S, HDMI,12bit
2009 Panasonic DMR-EX79 ||250GB,DVB-T,HDMI,12bit
2009 Panasonic DMR-EX89 ||400GB,DVB-T,HDMI,12bit
2010 Panasonic DMR-EH535 ||160GB,HDMI,12bit
2010 Panasonic DMR-EH635 ||250GB,HDMI,12bit
2010 Panasonic DMR-EX83 ||250GB,DVB-T,HDMI,12bit
2010 Panasonic DMR-EX93C ||250GB,DVB-C,DVB-T,HDMI,12bit
2010 Panasonic DMR-EX99V ||250GB,DVD+VHS,DVB-T,HDMI,12bit
2010 Panasonic DMR-EZ49V ||DVD+VHS,HDMI,DVB-T,12bit
2010 Panasonic DMR-XS350 ||250GB,HDMI,Twin HD Tuner,HDTV AVCHD recording,12bit
2010 Panasonic DMR-XS385 ||250GB,HDMI,Twin HD Tuner,HDTV AVCHD recording,12bit
2011 Panasonic DMR-EH545 ||160GB,HDMI,12bit
2011 Panasonic DMR-EX84 ||160GB,DVB-C,DVB-T HDMI,12bit
2011 Panasonic DMR-XS400 ||320GB,HDMI,Twin HD Tuner,HDTV AVCHD recording,12bit
2013 Panasonic DMR-EX96C ||320GB,DVB-C,DVB-T,HDMI,12bit

I can't judge if NTSC/PAL devices with the same name behave the same way. All PAL devices have in any case SCART inputs and outputs what is missing in the NTSC devices. If these are the only changes ...?

I own myself a DMR-HS2, DMR-E55, DMR-ES10, DMR-ES20, DMR-ES15, DMR-EH65, DMR-EX77, DMR-EH495

[lollo]

Thanks Bogilein, excellent report!

[Eric-jan]

Thank you Bogilein ! great sum up for the PAL models !

I own the > 2006 Panasonic DMR-ES35V ||DVD+VHS,TBC,12bit, this one has also s-video and component video out, also passthrough RGB on the SCART connections, so, a SuperVHS recording is that good, to decode (and super impose onto the screen by it) the teletext/Ceefax pages on a CRT tv, that were valid for that time.
Component can also be used for a flatpanel LCD tv,(in progressive mode) that has component input (YUV)
RGB and component can't be used at the same time, and have to be switched in the menu of this vcr.
The TBC like function has no option for on/off in the vcr menu(s), the Comb filter can't be switched in NTSC mode.
HDMI when on any other model, needs a passthrough converter,for capturing, that's why i like s-video or component, HDMI is handy for monitoring
Not all (vcr/combo's) have s-video output, the DMR-ES35V does not record in SuperVHS, but does have s-video in and out, has optical-digital audio out, and DV-input.
Although mentioned in the list, i think HDMI is not that important capture wise…
Some PAL tv system features, per country, have no influence on VHS playback, like different audio subcarrier of the tuner specs.
When playing (DMR-ES35V) a NTSC tape in VHS mode, SCART composite output video is converted, but not on the RCA component output, error message is seen, NTSC mode needs to be set in that case.

[Sharc]

@Bogilein: Thanks for the list. Any particular reason why 2005 Panasonic DMR-EH50 is not included in the list?

[oln]

Might be that that one in particular was not sold in Germany, as there is a EH52 and EH54 in the list which are probably gonna be the same other than tuner/broadcast decoding stuff.

[Bogilein]

after sharc, oln & eric-jan's posts, i dug a little deeper into panasonic's archives to see if i hadn't missed some models.

I found a few models on the Panasonic websites from Switzerland,Spain,Italy,Netherlands,Belgium,Luxemb ourg,France which have been sold in Europe but not in Germany.
Exception are the two 2015 models that were also available in Germany and are missing in my overview.

Since I don't have access to the datasheets I can't give detailed information about the video D/A converter and whether it has a time base corrector.

The additional information like about DVB-T, hard disk size.... are only for a better understanding of the product line. They are not important for capturing analog material.

Panasonic DMR European devices:

2005 Panasonic DMR-EH50 ||80GB,10bit, european Version of the EH52
2006 Panasonic DMR-EH55 ||160GB,(TBC) european Version of the EH56
2007 Panasonic DMR-EH57 ||160GB,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2007 Panasonic DMR-EH67 ||250GB,HDMI,(TBC),12bit
2007 Panasonic DMR-EH770 ||400GB,HDMI
2007 Panasonic DMR-EH775 ||400GB,HDMI
2008 Panasonic DMR-EH58 ||250GB,HDMI
2008 Panasonic DMR-EH68 ||320GB,HDMI
2009 Panasonic DMR-EH49 ||160GB,HDMI
2009 Panasonic DMR-EH59 ||250GB,HDMI
2009 Panasonic DMR-EH695 ||320GB,HDMI
2013 Panasonic DMR-EH76 ||320GB,HDMI
2015 Panasonic DMR-EX97C ||500GB,DVB-C,DVB-T,HDMI only, no other connections
2015 Panasonic DMR-EX97S ||500GB,DBT-S,DVB-H,HDMI only, no other connections


The ES35V is actually nothing special.
The component output have all devices from 2004 up to the including 2009 models. Likewise all devices have a separate Y/C input and output, the same should apply to RGB over scart.
In all models from 2010 onwards, the component output is missing and Y/C connections (inputs and outputs) were only possible via scart. Exception is the DMR-EX99V which still has analog Y/C inputs and outputs but no component output.

On all models with an HDMI output you can set the resolution to 720x576i if the connected devices support this resolution. What is important, if you want to capture via HDMI with appropriate hardware.

With the NTSC devices you should only be able to set the resolution to 720x480p, if I read that correctly?

[Sharc]

bogilein: Thank you for the extra efforts.
If the 2005 DMR-EH50 is the European version of the EH52 one would conclude that it includes TBC as well, right?

[Bogilein]

The EH50 & EH52 have the same operating instructions.
Therefore, the TBC performance should be equivalent.

[Eric-jan]

after sharc, oln & eric-jan's posts, i dug a little deeper into panasonic's archives to see if i hadn't missed some models.




The ES35V is actually nothing special.
The component output have all devices from 2004 up to the including 2009 models. Likewise all devices have a separate Y/C input and output, the same should apply to RGB over scart.

But not all of the combo's have also the VHS deck output in realtime over the component video output, which is then mostly just used for the DVD deck,
if one has a choice … but i only discovered this by accident,(+ VHS fresh) and is hard to find in the manual. i see not much value in a HDMI connection, when both s-video and component are available, don't understand why comb filter is always on in NTSC system mode. in PAL mode you can turn it off or on.
The ES35V will not play from some rare tapes the HiFi perfect, is this a "caps" problem ?