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  1. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    I'm confused. Didn't you say the SCART output of the Panasonic was better at not clipping the whites than the S-Video output?
    Sorry If I was not clear.

    The first version of the machines had a problem on the brighteness on the S-Video output. It can be solved by using the SCART output instead of the S-Video output, connecting to the capture card through an adaptor.

    All the machines suffer from a "white clipping", different from the previous problem, from whatever output. To normalize, the potentiometer approach was introduced to sole/reduce the clipping, or you just live with it, as I do.

    Out of contest, in general I found that Y/C signal at S-Video output is better than Y/C signal at SCART output, for european PAL DVD Players, DVB-S Set-Top box, DVB-T Set-Top Box, DVD-R recorders, etc... It is not a generic rule, just my experience with my hardware.
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  2. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    I'm confused. Didn't you say the SCART output of the Panasonic was better at not clipping the whites than the S-Video output?
    Sorry If I was not clear.

    The first version of the machines had a problem on the brighteness on the S-Video output. It can be solved by using the SCART output instead of the S-Video output, connecting to the capture card through an adaptor.

    All the machines suffer from a "white clipping", different from the previous problem, from whatever output. To normalize, the potentiometer approach was introduced to sole/reduce the clipping, or you just live with it, as I do.

    Out of contest, in general I found that Y/C signal at S-Video output is better than Y/C signal at SCART output, for european PAL DVD Players, DVB-S Set-Top box, DVB-T Set-Top Box, DVD-R recorders, etc... It is not a generic rule, just my experience with my hardware.
    Thks.

    Now the question is whether the nearly 60€ price difference of the ES10 compared to the ES15 is justifiable. Is the ES10 that much better at lineTBC?

    EDIT: At the moment of the this writing, the original ES10 deal is no longer available... I guess I'll have to get the ES15 in the end.

    This is the ES15 deal (the original ES15 deal is also no longer available...), from a private vendor: https://www.ebay.es/itm/195312770515, only 10€ cheaper than the ES10 + remote combo from before...
    Last edited by tugatomsk; 7th Sep 2022 at 10:55.
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  3. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
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    Buying from ebay is a risk, use PayPal, and be sure you can have a refund if the machine is not working as you wish. Remote is required to access the menu. The final choice is yours.

    A good source is VCR shop in Netherlands https://vcrshop.com/nl/categorie/vcr/dvd-recorders/?filter_brand=panasonic-nl&query_type_brand=or
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  4. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    Buying from ebay is a risk, use PayPal, and be sure you can have a refund if the machine is not working as you wish. Remote is required to access the menu. The final choice is yours.

    A good source is VCR shop in Netherlands https://vcrshop.com/nl/categorie/vcr/dvd-recorders/?filter_brand=panasonic-nl&query_type_brand=or
    Yes, I know, LordSmurf had told me about that store once. But sadly they don't have that many DVRs for sale (like the ES10 or the ES15), only VCRs.

    But thanks anyway.
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  5. Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    But sadly they don't have that many DVRs for sale (like the ES10 or the ES15), only VCRs.
    It needs not absolutely be an ES10 or ES15. It may be easier to find E(H)50 or E(H)55 in good condition which will perfectly eliminate line wiggle and dot crawl/rainbows thanks to Y/C comb filtering just in case you would have to source via composite from your VCR (S-video throughout is still preferred, of course).
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  6. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    But sadly they don't have that many DVRs for sale (like the ES10 or the ES15), only VCRs.
    It needs not absolutely be an ES10 or ES15. It may be easier to find E(H)50 or E(H)55 in good condition which will perfectly eliminate line wiggle and dot crawl/rainbows thanks to Y/C comb filtering just in case you would have to source via composite from your VCR (S-video throughout is still preferred, of course).
    I was under the impression that everything after the ES10 and ES15 no longer had the same TBC performance or no TBC at all.

    Do the EH50 and EH55 also suffer from blowing out whites?

    EDIT: I just googled and the E50/E55 are different from their counterparts EH50/EH55. What's the main difference?


    EDIT2: This is a video of the TBC performance of a Sony RDR-HXD870.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMA5aH_olAQ&ab_channel=hesl

    Looks great to me. How does it compare to the Panasonic ES15?

    EDIT3: Apparently, according to LordSmurf, the E series predates the ES, which means the E50 and the E55 don't have lineTBC. My doubt is if the EH series also predates the ES series.


    So anyway:
    The trusty Dutch video shop does have the EH50:
    https://vcrshop.com/product/vcr/dvd-recorders/harddisk-recorders/panasonic-dmr-eh50-dv...80gb-recorder/

    The ES15, however, is only available on ebay.es...
    https://www.ebay.es/itm/195312770515


    I have my video capture rig complete but now I don't know what to choose to complement it within budget (the ES10 is ruled out due to not being available anywhere at the moment)...
    Last edited by tugatomsk; 7th Sep 2022 at 19:14. Reason: new info
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  7. Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    I was under the impression that everything after the ES10 and ES15 no longer had the same TBC performance or no TBC at all.
    .
    Same, the signal will have been turned into digital component inside the dvd-recorder and a fresh video signal will be generated from that so I don't see how anything else past the dvd-recorder would be able to do anything with it. If you look at the output with a scope it's a clean stable signal. Only things I know are that the panasonics (but no other dvd-recorder I've seen) will turn off the output if they think there is no video input whatsover. I've only ever seen that trigger with tapes that were recorded over with nothing connected (unrecorded parts of tapes e.g don't.) so it's normally not an issue. (Also not an issue if going via HDMI out on models where that's an option). Also I think they will put macrovision/copy protection on the output signal if it thinks the input is copy-protected which could trigger certain capture cards (though that seems to sometimes cause issues on the video itself regardless).


    EH50 is basically ES10 + hdd
    EH55 is basically ES15 + hdd

    For the years they used ES and EH, ES seems to have meant model with dvd recorder only (including DVD-recorder/VHS combos), EH indicating dvd-recorder with hdd. Later ones (with digital tuners I think) were labelled EZ or EX instead.

    I haven't used one myself but from what others have demonstrated the older Exx models have line-tbc type stuff too, there are some examples on dfaq and here somewhere I think.


    The RDR-HX870 has a tbc/horizontal jitter correction yeah (same with other sonys starting from the RDR-HX750/HX650/GX350 and newer), same with Pioneers starting with DVR-x30 and newer (higher second number means newer). Older ones, like the HX710 you used are completely different and don't feature the same capabilities afaik. They are not quite as capable on very bad tapes with extreme jitter, and a bit more prone to dropping/inserting frames in those cases, but on the plus side they don't suffer from the white clip issues of the panasonics. They're also a bit more configurable, letting you adjust brightness/contrast/saturation etc which most other dvd-recorders don't.
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  8. Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    So anyway:
    The trusty Dutch video shop does have the EH50:
    https://vcrshop.com/product/vcr/dvd-recorders/harddisk-recorders/panasonic-dmr-eh50-dv...80gb-recorder/

    The ES15, however, is only available on ebay.es...
    https://www.ebay.es/itm/195312770515


    I have my video capture rig complete but now I don't know what to choose to complement it within budget (the ES10 is ruled out due to not being available anywhere at the moment)...
    Both will meet the purpose IMO.
    As has been said, the EH50 comes with a HDD. You won't need the HDD for operating the device in passthrough. One caveat with the EH50: After about 20 minutes of operation a pop up message "HDD sleep" (or similar) will appear for 1...2 seconds and interfere with the capturing process. This pop-up cannot be disabled. So it's recommended to have the EH50 runing until this pop-up has appeared/disappeared and only then start with the real capturing. Otherwise this "HDD sleep" message will be included in your capture.
    Last edited by Sharc; 8th Sep 2022 at 02:38.
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  9. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    I was under the impression that everything after the ES10 and ES15 no longer had the same TBC performance or no TBC at all.
    Line TBC.
    Not frame TBC.
    You can line correct video, and it can still output imprecise frames. The ES10/15/etc do not have frame TBCs whatsoever. The simple frame sync inside is for the unit internals, but the analog output is still warbly. So unless you're using it to record DVDs, the passthrough output still trips up many capture cards at start, stop, at footage breaks, tape errors, etc. This why something like DVK to chase is essential at times.

    This may be OT to your statement, but too many people you "TBC" without any consideration for the exact type, usage, and ability.

    Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    Does getting a S-VHS with included TBC mean intermediary devices like the Panasonic ES10 with TBC are no longer necessary?
    Yes.

    Originally Posted by Skiller View Post
    In my opinion, no, one should still use something like the ES10.
    The is a good chance you may find that disabling the internal TBC of the VCR actually yields a better quality capture.
    This is an extremely unlikely scenario, mostly for rarer tearing issues. The ES10 is a crippled+strong line TBC, and has quality-harming side effects. It should only be used where the net outcome is better quality. In general, always use a S-VHS VCR TBC, unless the signal needs harsher stability.

    That PAL deck -- both model, and your particular unit -- may be that scenario. But others will likely not at all have the same experience.

    Originally Posted by Skiller View Post
    any other Panasonic DVD or DVD/HDD-recorder is also good and recommendable..
    This is bad advice. Random DVD recorders don't have passthrough, nor the line TBC.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 8th Sep 2022 at 03:35.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
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  10. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Interesting... Sadly, I can't get a S-VHS at the moment, as I've stated before. Maybe sometime in the near future.

    EH = ES + HDD?. LordSmurf doesn't seem to agree with that statement... Morever, the white blowing out still worries me. I'm worried the EH50 will blow off the whites just like the ES10.

    Also, another user stated that "(...) If the S-Video output of the Panasonic shows the problem (blowing off whites), just use its SCART output instead, and the adaptor to feed your card." The adapter in question is something like this:
    https://servelec.pt/pt/product/ficha-adaptadora-scart-macho-rcasvhs-femea-fad103pa

    Or fiddling with Virtualdub's procamp levels can help me prevent blowing off the whites without lowering the contrast too much?

    EDIT: Reviewing the YT video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMA5aH_olAQ&ab_channel=hesl

    Apparently the Sony RDR-HXD870 cuts off the signal completely when dealing with damaged portions of tapes. My Sony doesn't do that. Does the ES10/EH50 also do the same or is it something that can be turned off?
    Last edited by tugatomsk; 8th Sep 2022 at 07:23.
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  11. Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    Or can fiddling with Virtualdub's procamp levels can help me prevent blowing off the whites without lowering the contrast too much?
    Normally yes, as long as the input (A/D converter) of your capture device (Pinnacle USB or whatever you are using) is not hopelessly overloaded and the analog signal has not been clipped at some other stage in the workflow, you can apply levels adjustments (brightness, contrast) at digital level with the "proc-amp" settings of your capturing application (VirtualDub, AmarecTV ....) or with GraphEdit, and eventually in post-processing. Use avisynth's histogram to visualize and control the waveform. There are many posts about this in this forum.
    Trust that many users have been using ES10, ES15, E(H)50 .... successfully in passthrough.
    Last edited by Sharc; 8th Sep 2022 at 07:50.
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  12. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    Or can fiddling with Virtualdub's procamp levels can help me prevent blowing off the whites without lowering the contrast too much?
    Normally yes, as long as the input (A/D converter) of your capture device (Pinnacle USB or whatever you are using) is not hopelessly overloaded and the analog signal has not been clipped at some other stage in the workflow, you can apply levels adjustments (brightness, contrast) at digital level with the "proc-amp" settings of your capturing application (VirtualDub, AmarecTV ....) or with GraphEdit, and eventually in post-processing. Use avisynth's histogram to visualize and control the waveform. There are many posts about this in this forum.
    Trust that many users have been using ES10, ES15, E(H)50 .... successfully in passthrough.
    That's good to hear.

    However, other users (like LordSmurf) have stated that the quality of the passthrough internal routing of the EH series is not the same of the ES series due to the inclusion of the HDD. Which is a shame, otherwise, I'd order the EH50 from VCRshop in an instant.

    In other news, the British guy from ebay hasn't even replied to my message about the working condition of the ES15 and the remote...

    LordSmurf has mentioned the best second alternative to the ES10/15 is the combo DVD-VHS-DVR Panasonic EH75V, but I just can't find it anywhere...
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  13. I'm not sure where they got it from that the EH50 would act differently? I do remember there was a thread where it was confused with the older and different DMR-E50 at first, maybe that's where the confusion is from. Also note (think it's noted earlier in the thread) that there are some differences between North American and international/european variants, mainly for the later (2007 and newer) models with digital tuners where the North American models switched to a completely different chipset and lack the video decoders that correct jitter etc of the earlier models and are not really suggested for pass-through use. The European/international models did not so even newer ones work for that. (I think some or all of the very late ones with blu-ray dropped some outputs like s-video and lack interlaced output over component/hdmi and what not so I would avoid those though.)

    I have the newer EH57 and it does the job about as good as the ES10 I have, there are some subtle differences (not better/worse other than possibly some very very extreme cases) as the hardware is a bit updated.

    I can't say with 300% accuracy that the EH50 is 100% the same as the ES10 as I haven't seen any demos of it specifically but hardware wise it has essentially the same parts as the ES10 (and ES30 VHS/DVD-recorder combo) which we do have plenty of examples from and there are also plenty of examples of the followup HDD models out there. The oddball unit is the ES20 which uses a completely different chipset (which is also noted in the manuals). Strangely the training manual for the ES10 and other models from that year states that the lowest end models (ES10 and ES20) does not feature "VHS Refresh" which is the term panasonic used for the tbcy-stuff - which is true for the ES20 but clearly not for the ES10.

    The EH75 is from the same lineup as the ES15 and EH55, I believe containing both DVD, HDD and VHS in one. Might be a bit rare, and probably big and heavy.

    As for the sony/pioneer units, yeah they do switch to black if there is near or complete noise/signal loss - that video is a bit bad though as they used two different VCRs for whatever reason, one which blue-screens on bad signal. It does illustrate that they are a bit more subject to drops/inserted frames on very bad input than the Panasonics. They can sometimes give this wrong tv standard message in certain cases too, obviously if you give it a NTSC signal when set to PAL but I found it also the specific combination of the NV-HS1000 SVHS deck with TBC on when there was just noise on the tape did (have not seen it with the TBC/DNR in JVC decks.)
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  14. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oln View Post
    I'm not sure where they got it from that the EH50 would act differently? I do remember there was a thread where it was confused with the older and different DMR-E50 at first, maybe that's where the confusion is from. Also note (think it's noted earlier in the thread) that there are some differences between North American and international/european variants, mainly for the later (2007 and newer) models with digital tuners where the North American models switched to a completely different chipset and lack the video decoders that correct jitter etc of the earlier models and are not really suggested for pass-through use. The European/international models did not so even newer ones work for that. (I think some or all of the very late ones with blu-ray dropped some outputs like s-video and lack interlaced output over component/hdmi and what not so I would avoid those though.)

    I have the newer EH57 and it does the job about as good as the ES10 I have, there are some subtle differences (not better/worse other than possibly some very very extreme cases) as the hardware is a bit updated.

    I can't say with 300% accuracy that the EH50 is 100% the same as the ES10 as I haven't seen any demos of it specifically but hardware wise it has essentially the same parts as the ES10 (and ES30 VHS/DVD-recorder combo) which we do have plenty of examples from and there are also plenty of examples of the followup HDD models out there. The oddball unit is the ES20 which uses a completely different chipset (which is also noted in the manuals). Strangely the training manual for the ES10 and other models from that year states that the lowest end models (ES10 and ES20) does not feature "VHS Refresh" which is the term panasonic used for the tbcy-stuff - which is true for the ES20 but clearly not for the ES10.

    The EH75 is from the same lineup as the ES15 and EH55, I believe containing both DVD, HDD and VHS in one. Might be a bit rare, and probably big and heavy.

    As for the sony/pioneer units, yeah they do switch to black if there is near or complete noise/signal loss - that video is a bit bad though as they used two different VCRs for whatever reason, one which blue-screens on bad signal. It does illustrate that they are a bit more subject to drops/inserted frames on very bad input than the Panasonics. They can sometimes give this wrong tv standard message in certain cases too, obviously if you give it a NTSC signal when set to PAL but I found it also the specific combination of the NV-HS1000 SVHS deck with TBC on when there was just noise on the tape did (have not seen it with the TBC/DNR in JVC decks.)
    I guess I'll go with the EH50, then. I'd rather have the reassurance of a reputable store like VCRshop than some guy on ebay who won't reply to my messages.

    EH75V PAL for sale are seemingly non-existent. I can only find NTSC versions from the US or Japan. The EH57 is for sale on VCRshop but it's double the price of the EH50.

    I forgot to ask: does the EH50 allow poor signal /damaged portions to go through or does it insert a blank screen? That's very important to me.
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  15. Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    I forgot to ask: does the EH50 allow poor signal /damaged portions to go through or does it insert a blank screen? That's very important to me.
    I have not seen the EH50 cutting the signal off. Noise from a dark scene or blank tape goes through as noise, a poor/damaged frame may be partially garbled (looking like a bad field for interlaced footage).
    As I wrote, watch out for the "HDD sleep" popup message. It's annoying if you would see it in your captures.
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  16. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    I forgot to ask: does the EH50 allow poor signal /damaged portions to go through or does it insert a blank screen? That's very important to me.
    I have not seen the EH50 cutting the signal off. Noise from a dark scene or blank tape goes through as noise, a poor/damaged frame may be partially garbled (looking like a bad field for interlaced footage).
    As I wrote, watch out for the "HDD sleep" popup message. It's annoying if you would see it in your captures.
    Yes, I remember your advice, and I thank you for it. Imagine that warning popping up after the first 20 minutes and me not realizing it!
    Last edited by tugatomsk; 8th Sep 2022 at 13:49.
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  17. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    After about 20 minutes of operation a pop up message "HDD sleep" (or similar) will appear for 1...2 seconds and interfere with the capturing process. This pop-up cannot be disabled. So it's recommended to have the EH50 runing until this pop-up has appeared/disappeared and only then start with the real capturing.
    Another way to avoid the "HDD sleep" message is to simply start the Panasonic's own recording to HDD and keep recording while capturing. It won't go into sleep then.
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  18. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Skiller View Post
    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    After about 20 minutes of operation a pop up message "HDD sleep" (or similar) will appear for 1...2 seconds and interfere with the capturing process. This pop-up cannot be disabled. So it's recommended to have the EH50 runing until this pop-up has appeared/disappeared and only then start with the real capturing.
    Another way to avoid the "HDD sleep" message is to simply start the Panasonic's own recording to HDD and keep recording while capturing. It won't go into sleep then.
    Nice one, quite clever!
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  19. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tugatomsk View Post
    EH75V PAL for sale are seemingly non-existent. I can only find NTSC versions from the US or Japan. (...)
    I found the PAL version of the Panasonic EH80V for a hefty price (though there are deals on ebay as well):
    https://vcrshop.com/product/vcr/videorecorders/vhs/panasonic-dmr-eh80v/

    Are there many differences between the EH75V and EH80V regarding the hardware?
    Last edited by tugatomsk; 8th Sep 2022 at 19:14.
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  20. Had never even heard of it before. Looks like the EH80V might be slightly older than the EH75V, it doesn't have HDMI, but it does have a larger HDD, SD card slot and DV input. Wouldn't really bother with either unless you happen to come across a very good deal on it. The VHS side in these isn't anything special (same as the normal Panasonic combos from the time) so for just digitizing use I don't think they're worth paying extra for over a standalone Panasonic DVDR like the EH50 these days. The EH80V Must have cost a fortune when it was new with the 200GB HDD and what not.

    Also be vary that all of these panasonics are know for having capacitors in the power supply that go bad over time and needs replacing, eventually causing the unit to not start up. (On the plus side that does mean that if you are handy with a soldering iron you could be lucky and find a non-working one for cheap and fix it.)
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  21. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oln View Post
    Had never even heard of it before. Looks like the EH80V might be slightly older than the EH75V, it doesn't have HDMI, but it does have a larger HDD, SD card slot and DV input. Wouldn't really bother with either unless you happen to come across a very good deal on it. The VHS side in these isn't anything special (same as the normal Panasonic combos from the time) so for just digitizing use I don't think they're worth paying extra for over a standalone Panasonic DVDR like the EH50 these days. The EH80V Must have cost a fortune when it was new with the 200GB HDD and what not.

    Also be vary that all of these panasonics are know for having capacitors in the power supply that go bad over time and needs replacing, eventually causing the unit to not start up. (On the plus side that does mean that if you are handy with a soldering iron you could be lucky and find a non-working one for cheap and fix it.)
    I guess I'll go with the EH50. I'll just wait a couple more days for that ES15 guy to give me a reply. If he doesn't say anything, I won't risk a dud and order the EH50 on VCRshop.

    In any case, I'll post new footage of the new equipment when I get it.
    Last edited by tugatomsk; 8th Sep 2022 at 22:43.
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  22. Don't forget to add shipping cost and duties to your budget, especially when you import from abroad.
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  23. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Interesting find: the Sony HXD-870.

    https://youtu.be/crEojSrXzFM

    Can proc-amp settings compensate for the ES10/ES50 blown out whites?

    It's that or I sincerely hope that using the SCART output instead of the S-Video output and then using an a SCART to S-Video will actually solve the problem.
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  24. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oln View Post
    I'm not sure where they got it from that the EH50 would act differently? I do remember there was a thread where it was confused with the older and different DMR-E50 at first, maybe that's where the confusion is from. Also note (think it's noted earlier in the thread) that there are some differences between North American and international/european variants
    That's it.
    - E50 not EH50 .... stupid needlessly confusing model naming convention
    - E50 was sometimes referred to as E50H since it had hard drive ... though that reference seems lost now ("anything on the internet lasts forever" is BS)
    - PAL vs. NTSC differences
    - EH50 not really sold in USA, low production, due to costs, and due to shift to TiVo and PVR.

    These has IDE drive issues, HDD Panasonics were notorious back then, cheap crap Maxtor drives inside

    lack interlaced output over component/hdmi and what not so I would avoid those though.)
    Lots of ugly decks like this, almost all NTSC, and many (most?) PAL as well. Internal processing ruins the video quality between input and output.

    The oddball unit is the ES20 which uses a completely different chipset
    Correct, do NOT buy these.

    The EH75 is from the same lineup as the ES15 and EH55, I believe containing both DVD, HDD and VHS in one. Might be a bit rare, and probably big and heavy.
    VHS/DVD combo, no HDD.

    I have one of these because it was part of a package deal to get all the other hardware. (It's the only item from the lot I kept for myself, due to curiosity about the "longer than EP" VHS recording mode.)

    It's a heavy SOB deck. Like several other specific decks, the unit should not be shipped. It will likely arrived damaged. Local sale only. (Unless you plan to use a giant reinforced heavy duty box, wrap the unit with large bubbles a dozen times, and then fill the box with peanuts. That's what the person did, to send it to me.)

    As for the sony/pioneer units, yeah they do switch to black if there is near or complete noise/signal loss - that video is a bit bad though as they used two different VCRs for whatever reason, one which blue-screens on bad signal. It does illustrate that they are a bit more subject to drops/inserted frames on very bad input than the Panasonics
    Weak line TBC, no frame TBC, crippled by forced anti-copy injection acceptance.
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  25. Member
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    How to read.

    The first block covers North American models only

    The second block covers International models only

    The third block are all models sold in North America or International (aka.. they are 'Mixed' together)

    Any model with an "H" in its model code has a hard drive (aka.. HDD)

    Any model with a "Z" in its model code generally means a digital tuner is included, ATSC for North America, DVB-T for International

    UDF and MEIHDFS are pseudo partitioning schemes that predate PC and Mac computers but show up in the bytes on the hard drives, most of the recorders use two operating systems, and simultaneously address the hard drive from a user interface operating system and a real time (rtos) operating system.. it gets very messy

    PATA and SATA are types of hard drives, there was a cut over point between 2006 and 2007


    US & Canada--------------------------
    2000 E10
    2001 E20
    2002 E30 E40(HS2)
    2003 E50 E60(E70)E80H(E90H)E100H
    2004 E55 E65 E75 E85H E95H E500H
    2005 ES10 ES20 ES30 ES40 EH50 EH60
    2006 ES15 ES25 ES35 ES45 EH55(EH60)EH75
    2007 EZ17 EZ27 EZ37 EZ47
    2008 EA18 EZ28 EZ38 EZ48

    Intl---------------------------------
    2006 ES15(ES25)ES35(ES45)EH55
    2007 (EZ17)(EZ27)(EZ37)(EZ47)EH57 EH67
    2008 ES18(EZ27)(EZ37)(EZ47)EH58 EH68
    2009 (EZ18)(EZ27)(EZ37) EH49 EH59 EH69


    Mixed--------------------------------
    2000 E10
    2001 E20
    2002 E30 E40(HS2)
    2003 E50 E60(E70)E80H(E90H)E100H
    2004* E55 E65 E75 E85H E95H E500H
    2005* ES10 ES20 ES30 ES40 EH50 EH60
    2006* ES15 ES25 ES35 ES45 EH55(EH60)EH75
    2007 (EZ17)(EZ27)(EZ37)(EZ47)EH57 EH67
    2008 ES18(EZ27)(EZ37)(EZ47)EH58 EH68
    2009*(EZ18)(EZ27)(EZ37) EH49 EH59 EH69


    Mixed (HDD models only)--------------
    2000
    2001
    2002
    ---->UDF
    2003 E80H E100H
    2004* E85H E95H E500H
    2005* EH50 EH60

    ---->MEIHDFS
    2006* EH55 EH75
    2007 EH57 EH67
    2008 EH58 EH68
    2009* EH49 EH59 EH69


    (2000)
    (2001)
    (2002)
    (2003) PATA E80H E100H
    (2004)*PATA E85H E95H E500H
    (2005)*PATA EH50 EH60
    (2006)*PATA EH55 EH75
    (2007)*SATA EH57 EH67
    (2008) SATA EH58 EH68
    (2009)*SATA EH49 EH59 EH69

    *note: this is an incomplete list, its simply what was collected before I quit working on it. The second digit of a model code seemed to indicate or be some code unto itself which indicated the Region Code for the DVD player/burner in the device.. but I lost interest before figuring out that puzzle.

    **note: the placement of the letter "H" indicated the "generation" of the HDD recorder. Placed "after" the Numbers its the 1st generation. Placed "before" the Numbers its the 2nd generation. The 1st generation were indeed very expensive, but slightly under powered in the CPU department. I do not know what an EH80V would be.. i have never come across it. The "V" letter code however indicates it has a SQPB video tape deck in the same case.. very rare. In North America only the E75V and EH75V ever had SQPB VHS tape decks in the same case.

    Blowing out "Whites" is a function of the IRE Pedestal setup.. or a symptom of it not being paid attention too.

    In North America output signals are "elevated" or "put on a pedestal" to raise the blackest black level above the floor normally reserved for horizontal sync pulses at the beginning of each line. This pushes the "white" above normal unless the entire range of the signal is compressed. Once a signal has exceeded the whitest white.. or blown out.. data is lost and cannot be recovered.

    In the rest of the world the entire range is available and the analog video signal is stretched to fit the entire range. This also causes a PAL signal played back and captured to exceed the whitest white.. if it is not compressed to fit on a "pedestal".

    In North America the signal is assumed to come with a Pedestal and is "knocked out" or removed to reduce the whitest white level and provide "head room" when capturing either a North American signal or a PAL signal.. but that can also reduce the levels across the board for a PAL signal and make it appear "dim".. the dynamic range should/has to be adjusted for adding or removing a Pedestal at the input of the capture device. "Generally" in North America this is done by stripping or recovering the sync, then grounding or normalizing the video signal with respect to zero.. and then either linearly raising the size of the entire range using a video amplifier in a "proc-amp" or doing nothing at all and simply accepting the slightly reduced range of the "dim" signal. and on playback or during color correction.. the signal is "refitted" to the available range.. it gets complicated and people tend to have their preferences.. work in the analog realm or the digital realm.

    A telling problem can be if the input has AGC, automatic gain control, and the whitest white level is regularly exceeded.. it can cause the AGC to compensate for a few microseconds and make the video appear to "flicker" while it reduced the overall video signal strength, and then back that change out a few microsecond later.. much like an audio level.. exceeding video levels regularly is not a good thing.. not only do you loose image fidelity with "blow outs" but you can also get flickering artifacts. The fix is to make sure the video levels are not being exceeded, be that because of Pedestal setup, bad cabling or anything else that might be amplifying and boosting the signal above where the AGC kicks in and ruins a good capture. . needless to say.. various forms of copy protection can also cause havoc with AGC circuits on the input of a capture device.
    Last edited by jwillis84; 9th Sep 2022 at 03:54.
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  26. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    That's a great list.
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  27. The EH80 looks like it might be related to the EH60 maybe, from 2005 or 2006 sometime? Not sure what marked it was sold in or whether it shares hardware with the ES10 or ES15 models.

    Looks like there was a japan-exclusive EH70V as well.



    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    The EH75 is from the same lineup as the ES15 and EH55, I believe containing both DVD, HDD and VHS in one. Might be a bit rare, and probably big and heavy.
    The E75 is VHS/DVD only, manual suggests it's from 2004? EH75 is VHS/DVD/HDD from 2006 it seems. Confusing? Yeah

    Besides the ES20, older forum posts suggests the ES40 VHS/DVD combo is also an oddball unit based on a LSI chipset. Something I don't know if whether the it's only the north american ES20 and ES40 that are LSI-based like the later variants, or if it's the case in all markets.

    For the intl models, there is a EH52 which shares SM with the EH50, might be some regional difference thing, and also a EH54 which uses the same design and is also from 2005 but has it's own SM.
    There's also a EH53 and EH63 but those are later models from 2009.
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  28. Member tugatomsk's Avatar
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    Does that mean this is not the PAL version of the EH50 with HDD?

    https://vcrshop.com/product/vcr/dvd-recorders/harddisk-recorders/panasonic-dmr-eh50-dv...80gb-recorder/

    I'll ask the vendor about it.

    EDIT: I closely checked the back image of the DVR and it mentions Region 2 and Germany. Are these images trustworthy?

    EDIT 2: The vendor has just replied to me (man, they're quick!), and they confirm it's the PAL version.

    How can a faulty IDE connection mess up the passthrough signal?
    Last edited by tugatomsk; 9th Sep 2022 at 07:24.
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  29. No I don't see why they would be selling the North American variant from a dutch shop without clearly noting it. The North American one won't have SCART and say 120 volt on the back if there is any doubt.
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  30. Member
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    The list is "incomplete" I am from North America.. so what I have "hands on experience" with is strongly influenced by what was available from North America.

    I would trust whatever VCR shop told you, they are a reputable and very old shop. I have never bought from them before, but they have been around for a long time. I think their reputation would have been severely damaged by now if they didn't know what they were doing.

    I imported some International models a few years ago, and that formed the majority of the International information in the list.

    Mostly the list gives you an idea of "when" that model was created and sold, with respect to the other models.. and what type of hard drive they had if they had a hard drive.. ect.. Think of it more as a framework, than a definitive list.

    Example: EH50 International should be from the year 2005 .. I have no information for the International models from the year 2005, but there was an EH50 North American version released that year. So there was probably an International (European, and Asia Pacific) version released that year.. though, this is only a guess.. it would have been more 'likely' to be an EH55 or EH57.. but since the hard drive models depended upon a HDD design.. Panasonic of Japan may have simply re-used that design in all markets.. it was very early in their production days, once they developed markets they could specialize for those markets.

    One way to be almost certain is to see the back of the model, SCART was never used in North America, if it has SCART.. its definitely some sort of International model. Voltages and Power plugs are also region specific.. and if you get to see a Region code near the fan vents.. that's reliable.. nobody bothers to fake that.. but Region codes for DVD are Numerical, where for Blu-ray they are Alphabetical.

    I would caution about Asia Pacific and Middle Eastern models, they can be 'very' attractive based on specs alone, but very odd and difficult to work with. You can only tell them apart from European version by their Region code. I don't think VCR shop ever deals in Asia Pacific or Middle Eastern models.. but world travelers can drag these all over the place.. I got a New Zealand model (New Zealand is a Region ???) one time. Panasonic specialized for many locations.. so it can be very confusing.
    Last edited by jwillis84; 9th Sep 2022 at 15:15.
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