Panasonic DVD recorder passthrough settings (DMR-ES10, DMR-ES15, DMR-ES25)

[Neil-Betamax]

Whenever something stops working for no reason, my go-to first response is usually to clean the VCR heads. Have you been capturing a lot, and if so, have you been cleaning your heads regularly?

Hi, yes I have been caputuring a lot. I will give the heads a clean for sure as that'll help, good suggestion. I just wonder if its more likely something else, because previously it was able to capture the blue screen of the VHS when something isn't playing, but now it doesn't pick that up in media express.
It's no big issue though, its just that at times when there's enough distortion it'll go black and miss a small segment of image untill it recognises the signal again to capture.

[Bwaak]

Feel free to add the DMR-ES35V to the list. The manual for the North American version mentions this setting - unless one uses RF channels 3 or 4, then RF is better be disabled to avoid inerference. So:

NTSC only:

Press [FUNCTIONS] for more than 5 seconds, then press [CH, ^ or ⌄] and choose OFF to turn RF off.

[Bwaak]

--- Deleted ---

[Bwaak]

Here are some samples, have fun!

[Sharc]

Apart from "TBC issues" which you probably wanted to demonstrate: Crushed darks (superblacks, Y<16) and superbrights (Y>235, even clipped) leading to out-of-gamut and clipped RGB upon conversion to RGB as I see it. Partially fixable in post, I would however suggest to revisit the levels for future captures, at least to prevent clipping.

[Bwaak]

Apart from "TBC issues" which you probably wanted to demonstrate: Crushed darks (superblacks, Y<16) and superbrights (Y>235, even clipped) leading to out-of-gamut and clipped RGB upon conversion to RGB as I see it. Partially fixable in post, I would however suggest to revisit the levels for future captures, at least to prevent clipping.

Thanks, Sharc. This is not related to the ES35V, but I appreciate the comment. Indeed, my Lagarith captures are full range, not sure why. Default setting was "RGB", I switched to "YUY2", it did not help. Cineform, on the other hand, is in "video" range. Frankly, I thought this is how Vegas treated these codecs, I had not checked levels with other tools.

[Thermaltake]

Hi, I need a little help.

I am planning to buy panasonic dvd player to be passtrough device on my S7960 JVC for vhs capturing. I got few tapes that needs a bit more filtering. But I can't find anywhere in EU ES10, ES15 or ES20 model. Only ES35 for like 200 euros which is too much for me.
Any suggestion for some other good models to search for ?

Is this true EH50 is basically ES10 + hdd ?

Does it suffer from white overexposure ?

I need some if possible cheap dvd player for passtrough, and no to spent fortune on it, I spent 350 euros on my S7960 JVC...

[Sharc]

Is this true EH50 is basically ES10 + hdd ?

Basically yes. EH50 is fine. Just be aware that after some 20 minutes or so a message "HDD sleep" (or similar) pops up. So insert a dummy disk or wait 30 minutes after power up before starting a capture.
Many of the Pannys can serve the "TBCish" functionality in passthrough. You may find Bogilein's list useful:
https://gleitz.info/forum/index.php?thread/48522-%C3%BCbersicht-%C3%BCber-alle-panason...chland-europa/

Does it suffer from white overexposure ?

Not really as I know. You need to keep an eye on "Proc-Amp" and levels settings anyway.

[Thermaltake]

Is this true EH50 is basically ES10 + hdd ?

Basically yes. EH50 is fine. Just be aware that after some 20 minutes or so a message "HDD sleep" (or similar) pops up. So insert a dummy disk or wait 30 minutes after power up before starting a capture.
Many of the Pannys can serve the "TBCish" functionality in passthrough. You may find Bogilein's list useful:
https://gleitz.info/forum/index.php?thread/48522-%C3%BCbersicht-%C3%BCber-alle-panason...chland-europa/

Does it suffer from white overexposure ?

Not really as I know. You need to keep an eye on "Proc-Amp" and levels settings anyway.

Thanks for info.


So any of that devices from list have same quality TBC inside or ? Why are all praising ES10 and ES15 models only ?

Does it mean newer device better TBC inside ?

What are proc-amp leves ?

[Sharc]

What are proc-amp leves ?

This thread further up
Search the forum. It's full of it.
https://www.videohelp.com/search?siteurl=forum.videohelp.com&q=Proc+Amp
https://www.videohelp.com/search?q=levels
https://www.videohelp.com/search?q=histogram
https://www.videohelp.com/search?q=black+level
https://www.videohelp.com/search?q=crushed+whites

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/402267-Adjusting-capture-card-levels-not-sure-if-it-s-right
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/340804-colorspace-conversation-elaboration#post2121505

and so on.

[Thermaltake]

What are proc-amp leves ?

This thread further up
Search the forum. It's full of it.
https://www.videohelp.com/search?siteurl=forum.videohelp.com&q=Proc+Amp
https://www.videohelp.com/search?q=levels
https://www.videohelp.com/search?q=histogram
https://www.videohelp.com/search?q=black+level
https://www.videohelp.com/search?q=crushed+whites

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/402267-Adjusting-capture-card-levels-not-sure-if-it-s-right
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/340804-colorspace-conversation-elaboration#post2121505

and so on.

I know I was reading what I can, but it would took me days for all that to read, that's why I ask if someone can just tell me this or this model and that's it, but ok.

[Alwyn]

@Thermaltake, have a look at my explanation on levels (that is, Brightness and Contrast) here.

[Thermaltake]

@Thermaltake, have a look at my explanation on levels (that is, Brightness and Contrast) here.

I did, but I need to get device first

I got some tears and flags on few tapes that I would like to correct with panasonic dvd player, but can't figure out yet what model should I look for. Because ES10 and ES15 are nowhere to found, and everyone is saying those are the best.

[Sharc]

@Thermaltake, have a look at my explanation on levels (that is, Brightness and Contrast) here.

I did, but I need to get device first

I got some tears and flags on few tapes that I would like to correct with panasonic dvd player, but can't figure out yet what model should I look for. Because ES10 and ES15 are nowhere to found, and everyone is saying those are the best.

As I wrote EH50 is perfect as well. I used it a lot. Very much the same re. picture stabilization as the ES15 (which I have as well). Also the E55 (European version, no HDD) is fine. And many other Pannys. You got the list from the German site. See those with the "TBC" label. No need to wait forever for the "best". It's up to you though.

And btw. these ProcAmp and levels (histogram, waveform monitor) settings you can practice with your current capture device, independent of the DVD recorder. You have to go through a learning curve. No quick shot.

[Thermaltake]

@Thermaltake, have a look at my explanation on levels (that is, Brightness and Contrast) here.

I did, but I need to get device first

I got some tears and flags on few tapes that I would like to correct with panasonic dvd player, but can't figure out yet what model should I look for. Because ES10 and ES15 are nowhere to found, and everyone is saying those are the best.

As I wrote EH50 is perfect as well. I used it a lot. Much the same re. picture stabilization as the ES15 (which I have as well). Also the E55 (European version, no HDD) is fine. And many other Pannys. You got the list from the German site. See those with the "TBC" label. No need to wait forever for the "best". It's up to you though.

And btw. these ProcAmp and levels settings you can practice with your current capture device, independent of the DVD recorder.

Ok, I just wondering if that EH50 is same as ES10 and ES15 in TBC, and that TBC is same with picture processing in those devices.

is this ok

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335320475288?itmmeta=01HTJAT1MMHS4KX3YCYPJ802CW&hash=item4e12...Bk9SR8aa6MrUYw

whats the best way to connect it ?

passtrough --> composite both sides or ? only video or audio also ? --> vcr --> s-video & L/R composite --> elgato video capture card

And TBC on my JVC vcr should be On or Off when I connect passtrough ?

Sorry If I ask a lot of stupid questions

[rgr]

Because ES10 and ES15 are nowhere to found, and everyone is saying those are the best.

But they appear from time to time. I just bought it with warranty for $21.

https://imgur.com/oOFbCYF

Will the DMR-EH57/58 remote control work?

[Sharc]

whats the best way to connect it ?

Use S-Video throughout whenever possible. TBC of the VCR normally switched off when using the Panny in passthrough.
There are quite some doubts with Elgato aka Elcrappo though. I won't comment on it as I don't use it. I-O Data GV-USB2 or Hauppauge USB live2 are normally recommended instead.

[Thermaltake]

whats the best way to connect it ?

Use S-Video throughout whenever possible. TBC of the VCR normally switched off when using the Panny in passthrough.
There are quite some doubts with Elgato aka Elcrappo though. I won't comment on it as I don't use it. I-O Data GV-USB2 or Hauppauge USB live2 are normally recommended instead.

L/R composite from audio I only need that from vcr to Elgato, I don't need to connected it on passthrough, just s-video cable ?

Is there S-video in and out on that player because I see two s-video ports there ?

And when connected do I need to set something up in menu of panny or just plug play and record

I digitalized around 20 tapes for now without any problems, and software is really good. But those two tapes that I got are really bad and I need better filter to clear them up. It's not vcr because I clean the heads and all the stuff inside that needs cleaning, but it's still the same. Elgato wasn't cheap either, 100 euros on amazon.

[Sharc]

... And when connected do I need to set something up in menu of panny or just plug play and record ...

Did you read at all what has already been explained and discussed in this thread? Sorry, I am out now.

[Thermaltake]

Found ES10 here locally in my coutry for cheap, and bought it. Can't wait to test it. But without remote unfortunately.

His original remote is

this https://www.ebay.com/itm/134213886651 ?

[Alwyn]

Here are the model numbers from an ES-10 manual I got from Manualslib:

[Attachment 78141 - Click to enlarge]
That Ebay one is "KMO".

I will say that my ES-15, EZ-48 and EH-57 all have different remotes but they all work OK with each box, so I think you'd be pretty safe with that Ebay one.

Try to find the exact manual for your ES-10 and then you can match the remote.

[Sharc]

.... all have different remotes but they all work OK with each box, so I think you'd be pretty safe with that Ebay one.

Same experience here with different remotes on different devices. Pannys seem to be reasonably exchangeable.

[rgr]

I can confirm -- remote control from DMR-EH575/585 works.

I tested DMR-ES10 vs DMR-EH585. Well, I can say - FAIL.

Source: pretty worn Toshiba (output SCART/Video):
ES10 (connected via SCART cable) -- recording to disc (MPEG2)*
EH585 (composite) -- capturing from HDMI output

* - I was a bit surprised that it records in 704x576 and not 720x576

[Thermaltake]

I can confirm -- remote control from DMR-EH575/585 works.

I tested DMR-ES10 vs DMR-585. Well, I can say - FAIL.

Source: pretty worn Toshiba (output SCART/Video):
ES10 (connected via SCART cable) -- recording to disc (MPEG2)*
EH585 (composite) -- capturing from HDMI output

* - I was a bit surprised that it records in 704x576 and not 720x576

Interesting. I will get my ES10 next week and test it with my JVC 7960e, have a few tapes that are pretty worn hopefully ES10 will help.

[Sharc]

* - I was a bit surprised that it records in 704x576 and not 720x576

704+black borders is normal for Panasonics. And the 704x576 picture gives a geometrically undistorted picture (circle test) upon playback as exactly 4:3. In passthrough you may get 720x576, or the 704 just getting padded (actually overscanned) by the capture device to 720. You may want to try.

Edit:
See here etc.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/413492-Missing-pixels-with-s-video-vs-firewire-cap...e2#post2725356

Edit2:
Note that these DVD recorders were made for digitizing analog video. Following the Rec601 standard the luma sampling rate is 13.5 MHz which results in an active picture width of ~704 pixels (approximated). Anything beyond the 704 width actually violates the standard, so it makes no sense to record or keep it. The 720 provide some headroom for analog tolerances and pictures which are not exactly centered.
The DVD standard (and later DV videocams as well) handled this very loosely, unfortunately.

[rgr]

* - I was a bit surprised that it records in 704x576 and not 720x576

704+black borders is normal for Panasonics

Well, the successors of ES10 already recorded in 720x576 (DMR-EH57 etc.).

[Sharc]

* - I was a bit surprised that it records in 704x576 and not 720x576

704+black borders is normal for Panasonics

Well, the successors of ES10 already recorded in 720x576 (DMR-EH57 etc.).

I assume that those with HDMI output would record in 720x576.
But how is it output on the S-Video OUT? As 704+2*8 sidebars, or as 720x576 filled with picture content?

[rgr]

* - I was a bit surprised that it records in 704x576 and not 720x576

704+black borders is normal for Panasonics

Well, the successors of ES10 already recorded in 720x576 (DMR-EH57 etc.).

I assume that those with HDMI output would record in 720x576.
But how is it output on the S-Video OUT? As 704+2*8 sidebars, or as 720x576 filled with picture content?

MPEG2 (HDD/DVD) also records in 720x576.
PAR (HDMI output) is exactly the same as ES10 with its 704x576 (12:11). Of course DAR is different.

Screenshots with PAR 1:1.

[Thermaltake]

wow it really clears the picture and stabilize it.

[oln]

But how is it output on the S-Video OUT? As 704+2*8 sidebars, or as 720x576 filled with picture content?

On the analog outputs on the panasonics the has the 8 pixels on the sides blanked out with black bars on the sides like most dvd-recorders and similar to most tbc/video processing devices. The HDMI output does not blank the 8 pixels so it's the only way to get the picture content in that area from the video outputs if there is anything there. (HDMI not blanking the 8 edge pixels also seem to be what's standard with other dvd-recorders)