Panasonic DVD recorder passthrough settings (DMR-ES10, DMR-ES15, DMR-ES25)

[Bogilein]

The way I see it, there was a design change after the DMR-E... models and I think it is from this change that the brightness pumping occurs.

Here is the Panasonic line-up from October 2005.

[Attachment 72366 - Click to enlarge]

Don't forget that we are talking about PAL units here, I can't say whether the NTSC models with the same name behave in the same way.

The "First Genaration" models also referred to the fact that these models worked internally with 702x576 and the "Second Generation" with 720x576, whereby this could only be captured via the HDMI output. Via the S-Video output only 704x576 was possible.

@Kimblrulez
I don't know what the arrow mean. You change the in- output with the switch.

[Eric-jan]

I never saw the GS or GK extension, to what does this refer ? i have a ES35V (also EU/scart version) don't know which difference would be with the ES30VEGS, V stands for quasi SuperVHS playback….

[dellsam34]

What is the full model # of the PAL version of the Panasonic DMR-EH50 ?

[Sharc]

What is the full model # of the PAL version of the Panasonic DMR-EH50 ?

There exist many PAL (50Hz) versions (if this is your question):
DMR-EH50EB for UK
DMR-EH50EBL for Ireland(?)
DMR-EH50EG for the EU (e.g. Germany)
DMR-EH50EP for ??
DMR-EH50EC for ??
(DMR-EH50P,PC are for NTSC, 60Hz)

Appendix -S for Silver case
Appendix -K for Black case

The differences for the PAL versions are mostly related to the TV tuner's country specific frequencies and PAL variants (PAL B/D/G/H/I/K/L/M/N).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL#PAL_broadcast_systems

One would have to check the model relevance when using the EH50xx in passthrough mode only.

[dellsam34]

Thanks, I was asked at another website and thought this is the best thread to ask this specific question.

[Brad]

DMR-EH50EP for ??
DMR-EH50EC for ??
(DMR-EH50P,PC are for NTSC, 60Hz)

EP = distributed in Eastern Europe and South Africa, apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Radio_and_Television_Organisation

Surprisingly, the (NTSC) DMR-EH50P and DMR-EH50PC have a core component difference: Digital PCB.



PAL DMR-E85H had a much different region breakdown.

[Idan1822]

Hello all
I have read about the PAL version that I should use S-video to Scart for the output.
But what about the input?
I'm using SVHS with S-video out.

Do the INPUT must be scart too? or should I connect my input to the S-Video AV4 IN?

Also the machine is DMR-ES10EB-S.
Does this model also suffer the brightness issue or unkown until I'll check?

[oln]

No it's only relevant for the output. It doesn't matter what input you use.

[Skiller]

Yep, you can use any input you want without running into the issue, including the front inputs.

[Alwyn]

@Tugatomsk, if you're still about, re your Scart adapter noise issue, have a look at this post:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/411872-SCART-to-S-Video-adapter-strange-problems#post2708654

[Sharc]

Regarding SCART adaptors and poor adaptor cables see also here:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/411872-SCART-to-S-Video-adapter-strange-problems#post2708738

Brightness flicker or wire crosstalk, choose your poison

[Idan1822]

Everything works

Should the Progressive option should be on or off? in the Panasonic picture setting?

[Sharc]

Set Progressive to Off

[Eric-jan]

The progressive option is only valid for any component or HDMI video output, but if it's on, it will switch off the RGB that's on the SCART, which is only on EU models, but does the progressive option de-interlace on the (RCA) component video output ?

[Sharc]

Here is a comparison of 8 different Panasonic DVD/HDD recorders about the brightness flushing.

Panasonic HS2 (2002)
Panasonic E55 (2004)
Panasonic ES10 (2005)
Panasonic ES15 (2006)
Panasonic ES20 (2005)
Panasonic EH65 (2006)
Panasonic EX77 (2007)
Panasonic EH495 (2009)

Nice comparison, very well done.

The brightness pumping is clearly there for all the machines shown, except the first two. Intensity does vary, apparently.

This was first discovered 10 years ago in 2013, so I'm really wondering why it takes so long for it to become common knowledge to use Scart only* with PAL Panasonics.

* Edit: or HDMI

Doing some tests with SCART S-Video OUT (via adaptor) vs. Direct S-Video OUT I noticed the following for the Panny E55 (PAL) in passthrough:

SCART S-Video:
The (Y+sync) signal is DC biased (probably by sync-tip clamping) at a fix level. The blanking level ("black") is at about 0.74 VDC. The signal is rock stable, and the black level of 0.74 VDC does not change with different video scenes (bright <-> dark).

Direct S-Video port:
The (Y+sync) signal is apparently AC coupled. Means the (Y+sync) signal shifts up and down, depending on the scene's average brightness. The capacitive AC coupling acts as a high-pass filter which cuts off DC and keeps the average (Y+sync) value at zero rather than the blanking level ("black"). No idea whether this AC high-pass coupling is standardized or manufacturer specific.

I imagine that these scene-dependent (Y+sync) fluctuations are the reason for the brightness pumping of the S-Video port. Also, I wonder how various capture devices handle it (DC offset with fix "black" level vs DC level fluctuations shifting the signal average dynamically to 0V). As far as I know they restore the video levels taking the sync tip as a reference for the levels and the sync pulse amplitude as a reference for the gain. In any case the fluctuations put a challenge on the level control of the subsequent capture device, and in worst case may cause transient instability or "hunting".

Edit:
Here eventually an excellent article which addresses the subject:
https://www.analog.com/en/technical-articles/get-a-grip-on-clamps-bias-and-accoupled-v...o-signals.html

[Traderbam]

I've picked up a cheap DMR ES-15-EB-S (UK model). There is only 1 S-video in which is on the front panel. Is this the best option to use for inputs or is the 2 x SCARTS on the back fine to connect up to my VCR (Philips VR1000)?

There is only a single S-video out on the rear panel. Assume this is the best to use (over SCARTS assuming I could use a in/out switch on adapter) and this output has the TBC included?

Here are the pics (from a similar model):
Front - https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rX0AAOSwP1dgXfXa/s-l1600.jpg
Back - https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/TxIAAOSwxrRgXfXg/s-l1600.jpg

[Skiller]

All outputs share the same processing ("TBC").

You can use the front S-Video input. That's actually the one I recommend using.

The rear S-Video output suffers from the brightness pumping. If you have a high quality Scart adapter, you might be better off using S-Video via Scart.

[Traderbam]

All outputs share the same processing ("TBC").
The rear S-Video output suffers from the brightness pumping. If you have a high quality Scart adapter, you might be better off using S-Video via Scart.

I read that this happens on some models - is the UK models one of those affected? I have an SCART adapter with s-video on it but not sure it would be classed as high quality - more like ebay cheapy.

[Skiller]

is the UK models one of those affected?

Yes. The difference between a UK model and other European ones is only the analog tuner being adapted to each country.

I have an SCART adapter with s-video on it but not sure it would be classed as high quality - more like ebay cheapy.

Show us a photo of it.

[Traderbam]

It's this one...https://amzn.eu/d/f0CMW8q

[lollo]

That's only one part (and not good quality).

Skiller refers to something like this, the S-Video connector going to your capture card:


[Attachment 74916 - Click to enlarge]

or a part as yours (but good quality) plus a S-Video cable (good quality)

[Traderbam]

Ah ok, I don't have a scart to svideo only cable.

For svideo are the belkin ones ok from Amazon?

[lollo]

I do not know, never used. Search the forum for suggested cables brands

[Skiller]

A Scart to S-Video cable as one piece would be ideal, but they are hard to find.
And with these it is crucial to have the right one, because the signal path can only be either Scart to S-Video or vice versa – not both with the same cable. The one in lollo's picture is for S-Video to Scart, which would be the wrong direction here.

There is actually one high quality used cable with the right signal direction on ebay UK right now:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305190360679

[lollo]

Yes Skiller, mine was just first picture I found (wrong direction, but should give a good hint to OP)

[Eric-jan]

what's against by just use an adapter like this ? it has a switch to set in/out mode, and has a SCART passthrough, and also has audio too, connections are kept short, this is a very populair option, and came free with some products, never had to buy one myself, otherwise somebody has one in the atic.


[Attachment 74918 - Click to enlarge]

[lollo]

Eric-jan, Skiller was talking about the cable I showed (integrated Scart+S-Video), which is Scart-to-SVideo or SVideo-to-Scart, no programmability.
If you use 2 separate objects you remark applies.

[Skiller]

what's against by just use an adapter like this ?

Unless a high quality one is used, they tend to introduce signal degradation and noise. The IN/OUT switch may seem handy, but it's just another wonky junction the signal needs to pass. I've had one where the switch developed intermittent contact.

[Eric-jan]

Eric-jan, Skiller was talking about the cable I showed (integrated Scart+S-Video), which is Scart-to-SVideo or SVideo-to-Scart, no programmability.
If you use 2 separate objects you remark applies.

You always have to check the directions with cable versions, eBay/Amazon can give wrong specs, the passthrough adapter is just a safe option of both, don't see the problem here. never had any problems, doesn't matter at which end of the SCART cable you place it, just need a male-male s-video cable with it, any cable will be short enough to not get any loss. we're not talking about HDMI 4K here…
An even better option would be to make your SCART cable yourself, and use 75 Ohm coax cable for the video path, pin-out of SCART is easy to find, you only need good solder skills to do this fast on the SCART connector.

[lollo]

Eric-jan, I did not understand a word of what you wanted to explain. Never mind, Skiller already gave the right indications...