Syncing subtitles with dialog

[Sebastian42]

I have a movie that will not play in VLC, but will play in SMPlayer. There are numerous subtitle files for it. Eventually I found one that seems to have a correspondence between the dialog and subtitles, however starting with a 7.5sec delay, they do not stay in sync. I believe that may be because of different frame rates. It has been so frustrating to try and match them up, that I looked for an automatic process. I found only one and it is called Snapcraft, but works in Linux. Ubuntu v20 was mentioned. When I tried to download Ubuntu I kept getting 'Server not found'. Maybe there are other solutions that work in Windows 10.

[ProWo]

Subtitle Edit is your friend

[Sebastian42]

Subtitle Edit is quite interesting - although it forced me to try it out in a 64bits system. BUT I can't see any obvious way of getting the required matching done in it. Further research has suggested that a STRETCH function in Subtitle Workshop might do it; I could not find a STRETCH function in Subtitle Edit, but it did allow me to determine the time in the subtitle file when the last subtitle would be displayed. I could not find a corresponding method to locate the last voicing of that subtitle in the video, or what to do with that info. I could not install
Subtitle Workshop so was unable to 'test' the stretch function in it. So I'm no closer to my goal and would appreciate further help

[davexnet]

There is "adjust all times later or earlier" - Use this to sync the earliest subtitle, then see what's what.
Under tools there is adjust by frame rate or %, analogous to "Stretch"

[Sebastian42]

I needed more information than you gave above, so downloaded the manual for Subtitle Edit; It seems to be about WRITING subtitles - my project of matching existing subtitles to the video, MAY be there, but I have not found it. It MIGHT be helpful, but suffers from not matching my actual experience of the program. e.g. it suggests using K-Lite Codecs which require setting VLC as the default player, but VLC is greyed out in my program; Moreover although I could 'set' the Start Time, after I clicked the button for END TIME, I got NO option to enter the end time for the sake of 'stretching'. I feel very handicapped and frustrated - can not rely on the manual to guide me, so keep coming back to this forum for further incremental steps in progress.

[davexnet]

I have done this many times and I've never used VLC or k-lite. But I must admit, I never get it right the first time,
but I get pretty close, to give me something to work with.

What I normally do is save my modded sub to the Desktop as SRT
and I have MKVtoolnix GUI open with the video loaded (and any old embedded subs deselected) I add my SRT to mkvtoolnix
and mux the video with this new sub. Then it's a simple matter of playing it back in mpc-hc (VLC if you prefer) to see how accurate the adjustment was

Identify the beginning of the movie corresponding to the first subtitle (or as close to the begining as you can)
Make a note of the times and identify the amount of seconds the subtitle is out.
Then use synchronization/"adjust all times later or earlier" to shift all the subs by this amount.
Save as SRT,and mux in with the movie. Now beginning subtitle should align, or be very close

Assume you get the beginning of the movie synced, find the area in the movie corresponding to end of the subs (or as near can get to it)
and eyeball while the movie is playing back to see how far out it is.

For example,
if the video/audio of an end scene line is at 85 minutes 10 seconds but the matching sub is at 85 minutes 20 seconds.
(make a note of these times)
Convert it to seconds and figure a percentage
5110 seconds move line
5120 seconds matching sub
(5110x100)/5120=99.8047 %

use the percentage calculated (synchronization/change speed (percent) and enter 99.8047

Scroll down in the subs to confirm the change is as expected, save the SRT and redo a new version of the movie using
MKVtoolnix as described.

Recheck the start and end/make small adjustments as necessary

[Sebastian42]

You have given me what seems a lot of homework; made no easier by technical slang (?) terms like modding and muxing whose meaning I can but guess at. Thank you for going to the detailed effort. I will see if I can follow your instructions, and report on my failure (or success ????).

[davexnet]

Mkvtoolnix does the muxing (remultiplex) It just means to combine the elements into the new version of the movie
"modded" (modified) is just slang for something after you changed it

[Sebastian42]

I can't see what MKVToolNix contributes. I don't need to change the movie, I just need the subtitle file changed so it synchronises. The Synchronisatsion/'adjust all times earlier or later' that you mention, does not seem to be part of MKVToolNix, but I remember it from Subtitle Edit, in which I can, as stated before, find the time of the first subtitle but matching it to the video eludes me. I can do that in VLC, but then audio and subs get out of sync - and THAT is what I want fixed. I follow the concept of locating in both files when the first and when the last dialog occur and that the times between them will be different in the two files; and that the subtitles interval has to be stretched/shrunk to match that time in the video, but HOW to do that is still my problem.

[ProWo]

To work with your subtitle and to modify it, you must extract it first.
After the changes you made, the subtitle must be reinserted (remuxed) to the video and audio stream.
This last step is mkvtoolnix for.
Today im out, but tomorrow I'll help you with all steps needed to make your subtitle in synch with your video.

[Sebastian42]

'My' subtitle does not have to be extracted - it is already an SRT file.

[ProWo]

Post a mediainfo report (text mode) of your movie here and also the srt file.

[Sebastian42]

https://files.videohelp.com/u/275616/MediaInfo.JPG
https://files.videohelp.com/u/275616/_Race.2016.1080p.BluRay.x264-_YTS.AG_%20eng.srt

Incidentally there were scores of subtitle files (MANY TO CHOOSE FROM), but the one I have attached was the first where I could DETECT a correspondence between the two files.

If I knew how, maybe I could use what MediaInfo reveals, to make a better selection, rather than doctor the subsfile I chose...

[ProWo]

The yts srt is most likely from an 23.976 fps movie, your movie is 25fps, so you have to change the srt timings from 23.976 to 25 fps first.
Do this in subtitle edit and save the changed file.

[Sebastian42]

That technical information helps - let's hope I can apply it in Subtitle Edit

I'm puzzled what you mean by adding 'FIRST" - what else needs doing apart from just playing and enjoying the movie ?

[ProWo]

Give the new srt the same name as the movie so you can see the movie with the sub with Vlc player

[ProWo]

Here a little guide...

[Sebastian42]

Before I saw your guide, I tried the following : In Subtitle Edit, I found the option to change frame rates, so set 23.976 as the original, and 25 as the desired, and saved that file. Suspiciously, I had exactly the same size as the original. It failed to achieve synchrony.

[ProWo]

Whats the movie name?
Maybe we can find a better matching sub for you.

[Sebastian42]

As I wrote before there are oodles of subtitles, but the one that I chose and copied to you was the only one I could recognise any kind of correspondence in, between the audio and the subtitles. The movie is RACE - there is UNUSUALLY no further detail in the name, UNLIKE the subtitle file which I sent.

[ProWo]

Load your srt in subtitle edit, open race.mp4 (open video file), click add waveform. Adjust the first sub with (synchronization, adjust all times).
Then click on the last subtitle. Is it too early or too late in relation to the last dialog?

[Sebastian42]

I opened Subtile Edit; It remembered the SRT file; In Video menu, I clicked on 'Open video file'. If offered me the chance to select the video. I did. Nothing happened. I could not find 'Add waveform', but I did find and click on a TOOL for 'Show/Hide waveform'. Two windows opened, one called 'Audio', the other 'Video Controls Undocked' which had the Adjust tab selected. I clicked on the Sync Menu, and then on 'Adjust all times'. That simply opened a window, which stayed open. HOW to 'adjust the first sub' ?

[ProWo]

Take a look again at my guid above to understand how to load video and audio waveform.
Double click the first subtitle and it should appear into the video windows, showing the postition into the waveform window too.
If you play the video, you can control if the subtitle appears in synch with the dialog. If not, you must correct the timing with 'Adjust all times', earlier or later.

[Sebastian42]

I will have another go, but am being handicapped by several things : Subtitle Edit only works in 64bits, and I normally work in 32bits, so I have to 'change systems'; I've recently had to replace my secondary monitor and it works fine in 32bits, but sooner or later goes black in 64bits, even though I've installed its latest driver. I find the required number of windows to be open to be able to follow your instructions and also do the required steps very challenging to manage in only one monitor.

Also I have made posts in this thread that do not appear in this thread ....

Your guide is in the form of a GIF - I thought I'd save it to my HDD and then play it when required, but the players (Ifanview & VLC) do not render it legibly.

For reasons that are too irksome to relate, I can not read your email in 64bits, and so can not follow your guide 'as I go'.

When I played the video, a line moved across the wave form window ONCE. The subtitles displayed in the video window. Just like in VLC I can hear the dialog and can see the subtiles out of sync. You write 'You can control' I don't see how. I dont understand the markings of the horizontal scale in the wave form window; and even if I did, I feel helpless in dealing with them.

You have really taken on a gargantuan task in trying to help me.

I've managed to remove one handicap - my current secondary monitor does not black out in 64bits. If I can find a way to view your guide LEGIBLY in 64bits, that will improve things immensely.

I watched your GIF over and over and tried to extract the significant procedures. Armed with those I went back into 64bits - now with a functional secondary monitor - but alas, a new obstacle. Clicking in the waveform window did NOT produce the critically important waveform - so I am at a halt again. I probably missed some important step that prevented the display of the waveform. I hope this is not as painful for you as it is for me.

[ProWo]

Upload your movie somewhere and post the link here, so I'll synch the srt for you...

[Sebastian42]

That is a generous offer, and I may have to take you up on it; but if it CAN be done, I would really like to know HOW to do it, as there will probably other movies I will have to fix. I have already come so far, I can't have missed much ! Any chance that you can get me over what MUST BE the last hurdle ?


RACE occupies 1.6Gb so that is too much to send by MyFiles.

[davexnet]

That is a generous offer, and I may have to take you up on it; but if it CAN be done, I would really like to know HOW to do it, as there will probably other movies I will have to fix. I have already come so far, I can't have missed much ! Any chance that you can get me over what MUST BE the last hurdle ?


RACE occupies 1.6Gb so that is too much to send by MyFiles.

I found a version of the subs of subscene.com, here's the subs at the end. Do these match the timing of
the actual video?
Edit - I see these are subs are for the NTSC version of the video. Doing the 23.976>25 conversion in subtitle edit changes
this line so:
1950 01:59:17,553 --> 01:59:20,193 (CHUCKLES) Um, would you mind?

1950
02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:25,993
(CHUCKLES) Um,
would you mind?

1951
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:29,239
(CHUCKLES) Sure.

1952
02:04:34,440 --> 02:04:35,555
Thank you!

1953
02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:37,074
(CHUCKLES)

[ProWo]

Try this sub:

[Sebastian42]

The film will not play in VLC, but does in SMPlayer; SMPlayer does not 'see' your subs file, but it does 'see' the one that is out of sync.
In my researching, I came across Aegisub which was supposed to show waveforms when Subtitle Edit would not. Since it runs in 32bits, I tried it, but it also does not show a waveform for 'my' subs file. So either I am making the same mistake in both programs, or there is something about that subs file .... I found an old tutorial about using SubtitleEdit, but when the webpage opened it told me I had no authority to download it.

'Do these match the timing of the actual video?' I'm not clear about the procedure for answering that question.

[davexnet]

You play the video, pause it as the line is spoken,
And look at the time indicator for your current location.
Surely this is obvious?