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  1. Wondering if someone can help me with this syncing problem. The film I have is 24fps and the only .srt subs I have is based on 23.976fps. Upconverting the subs to 24fps is no problem but that only subtracts about 1/2 second in the timebase. The problem is the subs still does not match the film. To make matters worst, if I try to adjust the time to sync the sub to the opening dialog, it works for a minute or two but then the voice dialog progressively begins to lag the subs more and more as the film progresses. The film is about 1 hour 59 minutes long but the sub timebase ends about 5 minutes short or 1 hour 54 minutes. The film is European so it must be PAL but not sure where the subs were derived from. Has anyone ever seen this before and is there a way to fix it?

    I know of some S/W that can sample and convert a known subtitle in a different language that is in sync with the film and that file's timebase can be used to adjust the other language subtitle timebase so they match, eliminating the need to individually adjust the whole subtitle timebase structure, but unfortunately in this case the film has no subtitles.

    TIA
    Maczones
    Last edited by maczones; 26th Oct 2021 at 14:54.
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  2. PAL film is 25fps.
    You could find subtitles for your movie at https://www.opensubtitles.org/en/search/subs
    Otherwise post a mediainfo report (text mode) of your movie here.
    Your film can also be a special version (e.g. directors cut) and your subtitle can be that of the normal theatrical version.
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  3. According to my calculation, your time data shows that you should change your subtitle from 25 fps to 24 fps.
    This results in the extension of the duration from 114 to 119 minutes.
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  4. Thanks to both your responses. I have been using the subs from opensubtitles.com and from other sites to no avail. The subs marked with a frame rate of 23.976 ends at the 1:54+mark and the 25fps also ends around 1:54 too. Does not make any sense to me. The last dialog of the film is around 1:59:30. All the various language subs are more or less ending at the 1:54 mark so maybe the film I have is not 24fps but something else?. I used VLC to look at the codec properties and it does state the film is 24fps, so maybe the issues is not there. I have seen this issue appear just one other time in a film distributed from Europe. I could never sync the subs unless I actually went in line by line to adjust the sub to the dialog timing but that was too much to ask for.

    Now the idea that it could be directors cut versus theatrical could have some bearing here but as far as I know, the film I have does not say either, but looking up the film on IMDB, I see that its 1:57 long so maybe there is a difference in cuts but still does not explain why all the subs I see are all in the 1:54 range.
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    What movie is this you're talking about?
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  6. Des Teufels General
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  7. Des Teufels General aka The Devil's General (1955)
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  8. Load your subtitle (25fps, 1:54) into Subtitle edit, select synchronization into the menu, change fps.
    change here from 25fps to 24fps and save the new subtitle.
    Should give you the right subtitle length.
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  9. @ProWo, Thanks for the help but I cannot find any English subs at 25fps. The subs available are all 23.976fps unless they are not listed correctly. Just for the heck of it I took the 23.976fps sub and used Subtitle Edit as instructed. I set the change from 25fps to 24fps and I now see the length of the subtitles is about equal to the length of the movie but again the subs had to be adjusted +4.5 seconds to stay in sync with the movie from the initial start. However, after reaching about midway in the movie, the subs starts to lag the dialog to the point where at the near end of the movie the delay has to be decreased down to +2 seconds to stay in sync. Not sure what to do at this point
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  10. Then you have to do the rest manually.
    Open your corrected subtitle file in Subtitle edit, click in the menu on Video, open video file, when the video is loaded click on click to add waveform, then you can move the subtitles as you like and adjust them to the audio.
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  11. Thank you ProWo. I will try that but will take time I assume to get it right.
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    There is version on Youtube that is 1:55.30, as mentioned IMDB gives 1:57
    I assume this movie is freely available -
    can you divulge the origin of your version? Did you download it from somewhere,
    of have you ripped it from a disk?
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  13. @davexnet: I bought the blu-ray and it's a German release: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Devils-General-Blu-ray/184911/#Overview

    The back of the box states the film is 120 minutes long. I now believe the subs I am finding so far were derived from the 1:55 length film found on the DVD release of this film. Its now becoming obvious, no one has made subs for the version I have which appears to have additional footage. This probably means I either use the subs I have and live with the unsyncing or learn German quickly.

    Btw... The Blu-ray release only has German audio but no subs, so I was trying to add English subs via remux to understand the film.
    Last edited by maczones; 27th Oct 2021 at 17:45.
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    If it were me I'd create a reduced resolution copy from your source, down load the youtube version, make the frame rate match, use something like stackhorizontal and scrub through the films. If you can find out where they differ scene-wise you may be able to fix the subs manually.
    Easily done in an Avisynth script
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  15. Yea sounds like a major project for me. I think, I will try to use the subs I have and incrementally adjust the sub when I see them lag the dialog. There might be parts in the film that will not have any subs to make up the 4-5 minute difference in film lengths. If only the film came with German subs, it would have been easy to grab the PGS file and then manually translate it with the right timebase in place but unfortunately this one had absolutely no subs... rare indeed.
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  16. Then again is it possible to slightly change the FPS of the film to match the length of the subs? I would think this could be done to slightly adjust the pace of the film to lose about 5 minutes over the course of the film. How can you do that? .. tsMuXer maybe?

    So far I have not found out any information if the film I have has extended scenes that would justify the increase in runtime, so its possible the increase in the length of the film is attributed to it being PAL vs. NTSC maybe?
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    Then the audio will not be in sync and you might have trouble playing it on
    external devices now because of the non-standard frame rate.
    I'll take a look at it myself if you make a small low-resolution copy available
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  18. Found this one (length 01:59:54,950). Try it.
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  19. @ProWo Perfect. Thank you so much for providing the correct subs that made me extremely happy to allow me to watch this film. I tried then out and it worked perfectly. May I ask where you found them?
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  20. @davexnet: Appreciate all the help you also provided and to further the cause to help me out. You are right about the audio syncing issue as well. Sub work can be daunting if you don't have the correct subs that fit. Thanks again.
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  21. Originally Posted by maczones View Post
    @ProWo Perfect. Thank you so much for providing the correct subs that made me extremely happy to allow me to watch this film. I tried then out and it worked perfectly. May I ask where you found them?
    On https://www.opensubtitles.org/en/search/subs
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    Originally Posted by maczones View Post
    @davexnet: Appreciate all the help you also provided and to further the cause to help me out. You are right about the audio syncing issue as well. Sub work can be daunting if you don't have the correct subs that fit. Thanks again.
    Thanks for responding, does this mean your movie has additional
    footage? How did they come up with that after all these years?
    Certainly finding the subs is great, saved hours of work
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  23. @ProWo: I must say I got duped. I primarily use the opensubtitles website as my main source and for some reason, I must of misread the length of time that same sub you sent on the exact one I had previously downloaded. I must of got thrown off by worrying about the FPS of the sub versus the FPS of the film. Did not realize the length of the subs file I previously downloaded is exactly the length of the film. All other subs I found however were 5 minutes shorter than the film. Just glad I got the right one to work. Now I am working to shorten the sub lines because some of them are too long and they stretch beyond the frame of the film. This is of course is a minor fix.

    Thanks again!!
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  24. @davexnet: Not sure now if it has additional footage without comparing it to one that is shorter. In my opinion I don't think it is, as the case does not indicate extended edition and that is something I would think the movie house would strongly advertised.
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    Originally Posted by maczones View Post
    @davexnet: Not sure now if it has additional footage without comparing it to one that is shorter. In my opinion I don't think it is, as the case does not indicate extended edition and that is something I would think the movie house would strongly advertised.
    Probably so. The Youtube version is 1 hour 55 @ 25fps, works out to 1 hour 59 when slowed down to 24 fps.

    Is 24 the frame rate of the Blu-ray ?
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  26. Yes but now I have another issue. After muxing in the subtitle using tsmuXer and exchanging the stream, playlist and clipinf files, I cannot select the sub. The BD originally did not come with any subs, so there was none to exchange. BDinfo does show there is a sub in the remuxed version but it is marked as follows: "* Some playlists on this disc have hidden tracks" Not sure how to access the hidden track if it is even possible. I know of BD's loaded with "easter eggs" where you press a few buttons on the remote to access the hidden material but not sure if this will apply here.
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    Originally Posted by maczones View Post
    Yes but now I have another issue. After muxing in the subtitle using tsmuXer and exchanging the stream, playlist and clipinf files, I cannot select the sub. The BD originally did not come with any subs, so there was none to exchange. BDinfo does show there is a sub in the remuxed version but it is marked as follows: "* Some playlists on this disc have hidden tracks" Not sure how to access the hidden track if it is even possible. I know of BD's loaded with "easter eggs" where you press a few buttons on the remote to access the hidden material but not sure if this will apply here.
    Have you ever rebuilt a BD like this successfully before? Perhaps you better open a new thread
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  28. I have limited experience. As suggested, I've opened a new thread, to see if someone can shed some light on this issue:

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403588-Subtitle-is-Hidden-Why#post2635689
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  29. I solved the issue and posted the findings in the other thread.
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