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  1. Member DB83's Avatar
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    That 2nd item is too expensive. And the shipping costs are crazy.
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  2. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by satimis View Post
    https://picclick.com/Sony-Handycam-CCD-TRV67E-Hi8-Video-8-8mm-Tape-264257542042.html

    The seller replied me that the device was not under their offer. Then I wrote them a reply requesting them to clarify it with Ebay. Up to now there is no reply from this seller.
    PicClick saves old, inactive eBay listings. That one has a tag that says "Unsold", so it ended at some point. Maybe the seller sold it elsewhere, or via another listing, or simply disposed of it.
    (Formerly vaporeon800)
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    It is quite strange me. The 1st seller, mentioned on my posting #30 above, replied me on email without such an item offered. Today, Ebay HongKong sent me an email, still promoting this "Sony Handycam CCD-TRV67E Hi8 PAL Camera Recorder"

    https://www.ebay.com.hk/itm/393553813495?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11070.m3698.l3160&mkci...2Cchnl%3Dmkcid

    Same seller

    Today I found another Sony hi8 camcoder
    Sony PAL Camcorder Standard 8/Hi8/Digital8 Video (DCR-TRV480E) (Hospiscare)
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384442792438?hash=item59829379f6:g:dy8AAOSw2GthZYYb#viTabs_0

    I have sent an email via Ebay UK to the seller requesting to clarify follows;
    1) The said camcorder is still in good condition, able to capture video and play back as well
    2a) The play-back output is PAL system
    2b) The play-back is direct to computer, Windows computer or Linux computer?
    3) Sony V8 cassette tape can work on this camcorder
    4) What is the voltage of charger, 220v or 110v. The voltage in my area is 220 volts AC, 50Hz.
    5) Is the battery in good condition. How many batteries included?
    6) Is the instruction manual in English included ?
    7) Are the connection cables shown for connecting computer?

    Advice would be appreciated. Thanks
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  4. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    The advice is to buy a camcorder from where you live not Hong Kong, Also check user manuals online for camcorders features, most of your answers will be there, posting too many questions without doing some homework deters members and make them lose interest in the topic.
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  5. Member DB83's Avatar
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    ^^ The OP is located in Hong Kong
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    Just received a reply from the seller of;

    Sony PAL Camcorder Standard 8/Hi8/Digital8 Video (DCR-TRV480E) (Hospiscare)
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384442792438?hash=item59829379f6:g:dy8AAOSw2GthZYYb#viTabs_0

    mentioned on my posting #33 above.

    They have no knowledge about the condition of the camcorder, unable to answer my questions. It is a donated device. They only know the manufacturer and model number of the camcorder.

    I'm now working in 2 ways;
    1) Continue searching second hand Sony hi8 PAL camcoder online
    2) Searching another local company ripping VHS/V8 tape on DVD.
    Last edited by satimis; 22nd Oct 2021 at 08:15.
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  7. Member DB83's Avatar
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    A simple question for now.


    Just how many Video8 tapes do you have ?
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    A simple question for now.

    Just how many Video8 tapes do you have ?
    About 15 V8 Cassettes. I have no idea whether all of them can work. I haven't touched them after have ripped all video on them to VHS tapes. Afterwards I only played the VHS tapes on VHS player connected to a CRT TV. There was problem on the VHS tapes. I don't expect the quality of the video similar to 4K video. About 2 years ago the VHS player have broken down. Since then I haven't played the VHS cassettes anymore.

    My plan is to find a reliable shop ripping all VHS tapes on DVD. Unfortunately up to now I haven't find one.
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  9. Member DB83's Avatar
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    If that is all the tapes you have it is not cost-effective to even try to buy old equipment that may not work.


    If you lived a little near to the UK (or had some cousin here as a go-between) I would offer to do the transfers from the original tapes for you.


    Maybe an advertisement in a paper looking for someone who has the equipment may help your cause.
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    Hi DB83,

    I'm much appreciated for your kindness offering assistance to me, ripping my old V8 tapes to digital files.

    Following is a section of video trimmed on OpenShot and exported to .mp4 file. I just upload it to Youtube.

    Video: Niagara Falls taken by me in 1990, both on ground and on helicopter.

    Niagara falls in 1990
    https://youtu.be/ErZvhUSfXr0

    First, I converted a .vob file on DVD to computer as .mp4 with ffmpeg on Terminal and then imported the .mp4 file to OpenShot. After trimming I export the video to computer as .mp4

    MP4(h.264)
    Video Profile: HD 1080p 60fps (1920x1080)
    Quality: High


    Hi jagabo,

    Is there any chance further enhancing the video quality of the .mp4 file ?


    The VHS cassette was ripped on DVD by Shop-3 mentioned on my OP #1 above.


    I don't expect the video quality similar to those 4K video embedded on my following website;
    https://4k.tours-video.com

    I'm now building and enhancing my 5 websites, adding video and photos taken in my past world travel.

    1)
    http://phgallery1.reynoldstocks.com
    Canada and USA including Hawaii

    2)
    http://phgallery2.reynoldstocks.com
    Northern Europe - Finland, Sweden and UK

    3)
    http://phgallery3.reynoldstocks.com
    Asia - Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippine, Taiwan, Thailand and Singapore

    4)
    http://phgallery4.reynoldstocks.com
    Western and Central Europe - Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Switzerland and Vatican

    5)
    http://phgallery5.reynoldstocks.com
    China and Hong Kong

    I still have 3 camera lens left behind from my broken Sony V8 Video Camera and they are in good condition. I'm willing paying more for a good quality hi8 camcorder. After ripping all video on my V8 cassette tapes I can use it. I still have brand-new V8 tapes, unused and packed in original box.

    There will be still a long way for me to go even after finishing converting all my V8 tapes to digital. The next hard-work waiting for me will be converting all travel photos to digital. There are hundred of them packed in boxes, some of them already turning yellow color.

    I'm prepared purchasing an Epson V850 Flatbed Scanner to do the job. Some photos I need to scan their negatives. My old Epson Perfection 3490 photo scanner needs to retire. Even though it still works great without problem.

    Regards
    Last edited by satimis; 23rd Oct 2021 at 04:34.
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  11. Member DB83's Avatar
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    At first glance that yt sample is certainly better than the clip you showed in your other topic. But there are issues.


    The dvd from the VHS should be 720*576 25 fps. You should not convert that to mp4 unless you still have the video codec still at mpeg2. And surely you can export direct as mpeg2 with no loss of quality.


    Now you trim and export. Now you will lose quality and since you original had 25 fps it makes absolutely no sense to create 60 fps video since that will add duplicate frames.


    Now youtube will also re-encode your video so that can not be used as a basis for improvement of the original. At the very least we would need to see native mpeg2 from the dvd. But as already stated your original video has already received two quality hits. The transfer to vhs and the transfer from vhs to dvd. Maybe the shop that did the dvd transfer did some enhancement - noise reduction etc.


    I'll leave it at that. But if you can upload a similar clip as pure mpeg2 from the dvd it will be easier to assess. Under Windows this is quite easy. Vob2mpeg to create the mpg video. Avidemux to trim and export keeping the video the same (copy) with format as mpeg program stream. Audio is not important.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    The dvd from the VHS should be 720*576 25 fps. You should not convert that to mp4 unless you still have the video codec still at mpeg2. And surely you can export direct as mpeg2 with no loss of quality.

    Now you trim and export. Now you will lose quality and since you original had 25 fps it makes absolutely no sense to create 60 fps video since that will add duplicate frames.
    If export the trimmed video as .mpeg the quality of the video is terrible. (pls see attached screenshot)
    Target: MPEG(mpeg2)
    Video Profile: HD720p 25 fps (1280x720)
    Qulity: High

    The file imported to OpenShot is .mp4. I can convert .vob as .mpeg and import it to OpenShot
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot_mpeg.png
Views:	6
Size:	1.00 MB
ID:	61410  

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  13. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I am not familiar with this software. It might well have issues with interlaced material. Resizing (upscaling) interlaced sources can create interlacing artefacts. Field order is also critical.


    I was suggesting a method to create a mpeg2 clip straight from the ripped dvd. But to avoid misunderstandings you could post a mediainfo report (text mode) of the .mp4 you are importing in to Openshot.


    I am prepared to test the software but I would require direct mpeg2 (untouched) and not an .mp4
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    - snip -
    I was suggesting a method to create a mpeg2 clip straight from the ripped dvd.
    I can do it here converting .vob direct to mpeg2(mpg) running command on Terminal and import the mpeg2 to OpenShot for trimming. I would do it later.

    But to avoid misunderstandings you could post a mediainfo report (text mode) of the .mp4 you are importing in to Openshot.
    I would do it later. mediainfo-gui is on Ubuntu 20.04 repo

    I am prepared to test the software but I would require direct mpeg2 (untouched) and not an .mp4
    On Ubuntu 20.04 it is very simple running following command on Terminal
    Code:
    $ ffmpeg -i input.vob -vcodec copy -acodec copy output.mpg
    The size of the untouched VTS_01_2.mpg is 1.0G. How can I send it to your?

    Edit-1
    ===
    screenshot of MediaInfo of the .mp4 file upload to OpenShot

    Edit-2
    convert .vob to mpeg2 and import mpeg2 to OpenShot

    After trimming export the trimmed video as .mpeg2. The result is unacceptable. The exported video flashes from time to time. Pls see attached screenshot
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot_mediaInfo.png
Views:	2
Size:	266.7 KB
ID:	61411  

    Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot_imp_mpeg2.png
Views:	4
Size:	2.49 MB
ID:	61412  

    Last edited by satimis; 23rd Oct 2021 at 11:25.
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  15. Member DB83's Avatar
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    That ffmeg command is the basic input >> output. And for a simple vob to mpeg it is not even necessary since one could just rename the vob. In practice you would not want to do it that way since a recording could span more than one vob. Vob2mpeg will take all the vobs from a dvd belonging to a single title set and create a single .mpg


    But I was not asking for that (at least I do not think so). I wanted a trimmed output ideally of the video you uploaded to youtube. Which you asked if it could be improved upon.


    If you want to share a complete vob you can upload it to any file sharing site. Even Google Drive. But if you trimmed it in the manner I suggested you would have a file under 500 mb which you can then upload direct to this topic as an attachment.
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    I haven't edited the original video after trimming. The trimmed video consists 5 sections, trimmed on the original video and joining together.

    I can only save the trimmed video as project file in .osp. I must export it. I'm going to export the trimmed video in following options:
    Target" MPEG(mpeg2)
    Video Profile: HD 720p 25 fps (1280x720)
    Quality: High

    (the options for quality: high/med/low)
    and upload it to this forum.

    Imported file - .mp4
    trimmed_video_imp_mp4.mpeg 418.3MB (file size)

    Imported file - .mpeg2
    trimmed_video_imp_mpeg.mpeg 546.7MB (file size)

    Both - Video flashing

    Please advise
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  17. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I am more confused than ever with what you are doing. And 'flashing' is just a word without actually seeing what is going on or what you have done with the source material.


    So let us keep it simple. Upload to a file sharing site, even Google Drive, the original vob AND both of these 'flashing' videos you now refer to. And for good measure, if you still have it, the original clip you uploaded to Youtube which does not 'flash' (unless you are seeing something that I can not)
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I am more confused than ever with what you are doing. And 'flashing' is just a word without actually seeing what is going on or what you have done with the source material.

    So let us keep it simple. Upload to a file sharing site, even Google Drive, the original vob AND both of these 'flashing' videos you now refer to. And for good measure, if you still have it, the original clip you uploaded to Youtube which does not 'flash' (unless you are seeing something that I can not)
    I suppose there is a confusing between us. What I was and am talking is the trimmed video file, NOT the original .vob file on the DVD.

    I still have the .mp4 file upload to Youtube. The file size is 860MB

    If on mpeg format the file size is 418.3MB. The video is not clear, flashing. Now I upload this file to this forum.

    Remark-1:
    1. I haven't edited both files before exporting them on OpenShot.
    2. I can't upload the .mp4 file to this forum, exceeding 500MB. If you need it, please download it on Youtube

    Remark-2:
    Also I can't upload the .mpeg file to this forum
    Warning:
    niagara_falls_1990.mpeg - Invalid File

    I have tried 3 times
    Last edited by satimis; 24th Oct 2021 at 04:08.
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  19. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Change .mpeg to .mpg


    Like I previously said, youtube have re-encoded your uploaded file. It is no longer one that can be assessed for improvement. If you no longer have the original then so be it.


    But we really also need to see what you were working with BEFORE trimming, exporting and uploading. Only the original vob tells us that.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Change .mpeg to .mpg
    Rename the file and upload it here. Now it works

    But we really also need to see what you were working with BEFORE trimming, exporting and uploading. Only the original vob tells us that.
    As I said before I only used OpenShot to trim the original Video on DVD without editing. I don't have AviSynth running on this Linux PC.

    Because I couldn't import .vob to OpenShot, I converted it to .mp4 and imported the resultant .mp4 file to OpenShot for trimming ONLY without editing.
    Image Attached Files
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  21. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Thank you for the clip. I think I know what is going on but read below. You should have started with interlaced 720*576 from the vob. Assuming that the conversion to .mp4 did nothing you have now ended with 1280*720 progressive with hard-coded pillar-boxing. I will check later if the active video is at the correct aspect ratio (I doubt it). The 'flashing' I believe is the result of a poor de-interlace done by Openshot plus the upscale since you can see the interlacing artefacts and because the video is now progressive these can not be removed at playback.


    Noone except you has mentioned avisynth but this is the tool to correctly de-interlace the footage although others may be adequate. The tool I mentioned was avidemux.


    So for the final time of asking, please upload the original vob to a file-sharing site. Only with this can we correctly suggest and illustrate the means to prevent this 'flashing'. I will be away for a few hours now and on my return I will check the aspect ratio of this clip - hardcoding of pillar-boxing is not the correct way to do this but maybe that is the only method with Openshot. But if I can receive the .vob I will test the program. I could do it with my own vob(.mpg) but for practical purposes it really should be your footage.
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  22. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Ok. So let's talk about the aspect ratio of the live video. Crop away the letter-boxing and one is left with approx. 880 * 720. That shrinking could only have been done, assuming all other things being equal, in Openshot since even if it adopted the original sample aspect one would end up with 5:4 (as is 720*576) or 900. Granted that the missing 20 pixels could be explained if the original capture >> to vhs >> to dvd had a slight border which could equate to 702*576 or, more typically, 704*576 with the residual 18 or 16 pixels being black.


    But even that is not correct. Ignoring any residual border a true image would be 960*540 so Openshot has not acknowledged the Display Aspect Ratio of 4:3 or the Pixel Aspect Ratio of the original vob.


    I assume that the gent in the video was your dad (seems to be the same person as in the other vid). But he is now a little thinner than he should be.


    I just wonder if these programs can not work efficiently with non-square pixels as in dvd and are more suited for square pixels as in native HD footage. But there is only one way to be sure. And do bear in mind that despite their glossy appearance they are little more than a front-end for ffmpeg as is the case for many converters/editors.
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  23. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I just wonder if these programs can not work efficiently with non-square pixels as in dvd and are more suited for square pixels as in native HD footage. But there is only one way to be sure. And do bear in mind that despite their glossy appearance they are little more than a front-end for ffmpeg as is the case for many converters/editors.
    +1.
    In my experience these glossy tools normally don't easily (if at all) handle interlaced non-square pixel footage correctly, but mess up with the interlaced structure and/or distort the picture, don't properly deinterlace and resize etc. Sure they always produce some output, but with plenty of pitfalls or poor compromise.
    No simple click-click-done.
    Learn Avisynth


    Anyway, the attempt of a quick and dirty fix of the OP's poorly converted .mp4 of post #50 indicates that his (.vob) source is probably in a reasonably good condition; it's not a lost case but it has probably been totally messed up by his tools and processing....
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	niagara_falls_1990000816.png
Views:	6
Size:	391.7 KB
ID:	61425  

    Last edited by Sharc; 24th Oct 2021 at 13:34.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    - snip -
    I just wonder if these programs can not work efficiently with non-square pixels as in dvd and are more suited for square pixels as in native HD footage. But there is only one way to be sure. And do bear in mind that despite their glossy appearance they are little more than a front-end for ffmpeg as is the case for many converters/editors.
    I trim a short section of the original DVD video on OpenShot and export it, without editing, as .mp4 file
    Options:
    Target: MP4 (h.264)
    Video Profile: HDV 1080 25p (1920x1080)
    Quality: High

    The file size is 447.6MB. No flashing is found. It is impossible exporting it as mpeg2 file, without flashing on video.
    Image Attached Files
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  25. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Well I have asked 3 times (at least) now. I will not ask again.


    I have not downloaded your latest sample nor will I. This is NOT about exporting (your previous .mp4 according to you had 'flashing') . This is about getting your video to look as it should and properly compiled. Until you understand this simple case I am out.
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    I've been following this thread as it started out with how to capture/transfer V8 tapes but I'm intrigued as to what you think you are going to achieve. Your original source is SD 4:3 PAL, so 720x576, 25fps interlaced, so what do you think you will achieve by changing it to 720 or 1080p? You won't get better quality, you'll get worse. Changing it to mp4 won't improve the quality either. Your best quality is the source file, anything you do to it is only to make it worse.
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    Originally Posted by Richard_G View Post
    I've been following this thread as it started out with how to capture/transfer V8 tapes but I'm intrigued as to what you think you are going to achieve. Your original source is SD 4:3 PAL, so 720x576, 25fps interlaced, so what do you think you will achieve by changing it to 720 or 1080p? You won't get better quality, you'll get worse. Changing it to mp4 won't improve the quality either. Your best quality is the source file, anything you do to it is only to make it worse.
    Hi,

    I have spent sometimes to rescue my old VHS cassettes tapes. I have tried 2 companies advertising ripping VHS on DVD. After having received their DVDs I played them on DVD Writer but the result was terrible. The video are completely not clear.

    Then I copied the .VOB files to PC and converted them to .mp4 files running ffmpeg. I can play the .mp4 files running VLC media player and other Video player as well. The video are clear even some sections being not so sharp. It is quite strange to me.

    Actually the video on the VHS cassette tapes were converted from Sony V8 cassette tapes. I only play the VHS tapes on VHS player connected to CRT TV. The original V8 cassettes are stored in boxes resting on shelve. Unfortunately both the VHS player and Sony V8 camera are broken, unable to work. Then I consider to rip the video on V8 cassette tapes direct to PC myself therefore I started this posting.

    The DVD writer is about 2 years old.

    I'm still working in 2 ways;
    1) Trying to improve the quality of the video on the DVD ripped by the companies
    2) Searching a workable Sony hi8 camcorder online

    Regards
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  28. Originally Posted by satimis View Post
    1) Trying to improve the quality of the video on the DVD ripped by the companies
    2) Searching a workable Sony hi8 camcorder online
    As you have been told many times, if you want help or comments for 1) upload an untouched .vob. If you can't just trim it without preprocessing, zip it and upload the .zip to some filehoster. Providing processed material like the one of your posts #50 and #54 which has obviously been post-processed by one of your tools with all flaws one can imagine doesn't make much sense.
    Last edited by Sharc; 25th Oct 2021 at 04:14.
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    Originally Posted by satimis View Post
    I have spent sometimes to rescue my old VHS cassettes tapes.
    and this is where you are going wrong. The VHS tapes are copies of the original V8 tapes so some detail will likely have been lost during the transfer. Admittedly, the V8 and VHS resolutions are the same, in the case of PAL, around 280 lines interlaced to give 576 horizontal lines. Being interlaced the display will be refreshed 50 times a second, the first time it will display the odd numbered lines, followed by the even numbered lines giving you 25 full frames per second. IF the transfer to VHS has been done properly with decent quality equipment, the resultant images should be very little different to the original, but it is always better to start with the original.

    The reason why the VHS tapes looked fine on a CRT TV is because it is designed to display an interlaced image. The time it takes for the phosphor dots to light up and decay means that the footage looks sharp and smooth. Viewing on a computer monitor or modern TV will look worse.

    Re-encoding the already low resolution footage to DVD compliant MPEG, is going to degrade in the first place. MPEG compresses by using key frames every 12 full frames and the ones in between are reduced to the differences between the previous and next frame. Compressing even further and increasing the resolution is only going to make it worse. When you only have 280 lines to start with how do you expect increasing that to 720 or 1080 is going to improve it? You can't put back something that was never there in the first place. Trying to do something with the vobs on the DVD is a waste of time, what little quality that was there in the first place has already been degraded.

    It must be 20 years since I last did what you are trying to do but your best bet for keeping comparable quality, would be to play back on a V8 player. Keep the resolution the same and capture it with a lossless codec (huffyuv was always preferred in those days and probably still is). More recently for V8 and Hi8, I use a Sony TR7000E Digital8 camcorder to play the tape back and output as DV avi. To capture from VHS I use an SVHS player and output component video to a Sony VX2100E used as a passthrough device and again transfer as DV avi. If, for whatever reason, I need to compress the file sizes (as DV is 13Gb per hour) I compress to DVD compliant MPEG (@720 x 576) which drops it to around 4Gb per hour. I will never compress further, storage is cheap but if the originals are lost or degrade you can never get the quality back. Not sure what method DB83 would use but I suspect pretty similar.
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    Originally Posted by Richard_G View Post
    ...... but your best bet for keeping comparable quality, would be to play back on a V8 player. Keep the resolution the same .......
    I think I was looking at the wrong direction in these few weeks, walking on a wrong way heading to the target of enhancing video quality. I should look for a way to super scale the HD Videos on V8 tapes to 4K (and Above).

    I made following test :
    1) Get an old PC with old graphic card with old display.
    2) Run VLC to play .vob on DVD
    3) The video are quite stable and clear, more less similar to playing them on a CRT TV in the past.

    It would be difficult getting similar result playing them on 4K display without super scaling the old video to 4K resolution and above. Maybe DaVinci Resolve will help me out.

    If I can get a hi8 camcorder to rip the video on V8 tapes direct to PC, the result would be even better.

    I will try DaVinci Resolve later. I already have it installed on a VM/client of Oracle VirtualBox. The OS is Ubuntu 20.04 desktop. I'll get back to post my testing result here if achived

    The alternatives of DaVinci Resolve;
    Adobe Premiere Pro (for Windows)
    Blender (for Linux)
    OBS Studio (for Linux)
    etc.
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