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  1. Watch this video:

    https://youtu.be/co7GvfyJeGQ

    SteadXP’s stabilizer is a gimbal with no moving parts.

    Last edited by Truthler; 16th Oct 2021 at 07:19.
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  2. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Did you actually watch it?
    Right there, at 2:49, he said not to buy it. https://youtu.be/co7GvfyJeGQ?t=169

    It also requires the mic port, so no actual mic allowed if your camera (ie most) just has one input.

    This does look neat, but not really ready for mainstream use. It has downsides.

    It's also not really a gimbal replacement, more like a steadycam replacement.
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  3. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Did you actually watch it?
    Right there, at 2:49, he said not to buy it. https://youtu.be/co7GvfyJeGQ?t=169

    It also requires the mic port, so no actual mic allowed if your camera (ie most) just has one input.

    This does look neat, but not really ready for mainstream use. It has downsides.

    It's also not really a gimbal replacement, more like a steadycam replacement.
    I never had any such videocameras which had no mic inputs. You know, I am not the person who buy cheap things from the bottom of the market.
    Last edited by Truthler; 16th Oct 2021 at 09:28.
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    I never had any such videocameras which had no mic inpts.
    Did they have TWO inputs?
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  5. Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    I never had any such videocameras which had no mic inpts.
    Did they have TWO inputs?
    Always.
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  6. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    This is nifty, but isn't really a replacement for anything. Just another possible tool in the toolkit.

    It's an accellerometer, just like what you would find in phones, as an addon. It is sending its realtime 3d positioning metadata through the audio line. Hence the need to use up the audio input.

    That data is then used as the guiding tracking info with a stabilization plugin - in POST - to counter-adjust the image. Hence, the zoomed-in result, as that is indicative of all tracking stabilization processes. They zoom in to cover up the manipulations done that is evident at the edges. It also is evident in the warping artifacts (really noticeable and bothersome, accentuated by rolling shutter distortions). And the requirement for such short shutter speeds (1/500sec or shorter) becomes clearer when one is fully aware of how this feature works.

    Phones may or may not be better, because though most of the modern ones have accellerometers, rarely is the the realtime metadata from them used for realtime or postprocessed stabilization. Much depends on the app there. And it would still have the same downsides of warp artifacting and dependency on short shutter speeds.

    I don't know what @Truther is spouting about audio inputs. Phones, gopros and other actioncams, dslrs and mirrorless cams and camcorders both consumer and prosumer are almost universal in their usage of 1/8" mini phone input for mics, and if it is stereo, it is still one trrs, not 2. Only when cams are of big enough form factor to include xlr ins do cams show up with 2 ins. Big duh. Not sure why that is supposed to be a sick burn, because that is also usually the point at which people who really care about audio quality will be doing double system and using a dedicated audio recorder connected to external, optimally positioned mics. And that is another whole topic having nothing to do with stabilization.

    Real gimbal systems - whether gravity-counterweight-based, or gyroscope-based, or hybrid - are still better at providing stable footage, especially as it is realtime instantly-reactive (so sort of "proactive") stabilization that needs no post processing, doesn't give up hotshoe slots or audio inputs, and doesn't produce artifacts or require changes in shutterspeed.


    Show's over, nothing to see here, moving on...


    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 17th Oct 2021 at 14:28.
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    I don't know what @Truther is spouting about audio inputs. Phones, gopros and other actioncams, dslrs and mirrorless cams and camcorders both consumer and prosumer are almost universal in their usage of 1/8" mini phone input for mics, and if it is stereo, it is still one trrs, not 2. Only when cams are of big enough form factor to include xlr ins do cams show up with 2 ins. Big duh. Not sure why that is supposed to be a sick burn, because that is also usually the point at which people who really care about audio quality will be doing double system and using a dedicated audio recorder connected to external, optimally positioned mics. And that is another whole topic having nothing to do with stabilization.
    That's kind of my point. If you have a camera (or setup) with dual (or more) audio input, then you're not going to be screwing around with this sort of cheapy hackish toy. Certainly not on a camcorder, and arguably not even a mirrorless.

    Recording data into audio is also a hack, and not one that will ever catch on. You can just as easily write metadata, and the NLE could use that. But we're just not there, and may never be.

    This is interesting, in theory, and really nothing else at the moment.

    The whole "not buying cheap things" aspect is amusing, seeing as how he tends to buy overpriced consumer camcorders (as per other threads). He asks so many total newbie questions. I don't even consider myself a serious shooter, but I know more than he does. My knowledge on shooting really isn't a high bar, I'm merely competent at it. But you'd never see me asking these sorts of basic questions, nor making silly claims.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 17th Oct 2021 at 03:51.
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  8. Truthler is at it again
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  9. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    This is nifty, but isn't really a replacement for anything. Just another possible tool in the toolkit.

    It's an accellerometer, just like what you would find in phones, as an addon. It is sending its realtime 3d positioning metadata through the audio line. Hence the need to use up the audio input.

    That data is then used as the guiding tracking info with a stabilization plugin - in POST - to counter-adjust the image. Hence, the zoomed-in result, as that is indicative of all tracking stabilization processes. They zoom in to cover up the manipulations done that is evident at the edges. It also is evident in the warping artifacts (really noticeable and bothersome, accentuated by rolling shutter distortions). And the requirement for such short shutter speeds (1/500sec or shorter) becomes clearer when one is fully aware of how this feature works.

    Phones may or may not be better, because though most of the modern ones have accellerometers, rarely is the the realtime metadata from them used for realtime or postprocessed stabilization. Much depends on the app there. And it would still have the same downsides of warp artifacting and dependency on short shutter speeds.

    I don't know what @Truther is spouting about audio inputs. Phones, gopros and other actioncams, dslrs and mirrorless cams and camcorders both consumer and prosumer are almost universal in their usage of 1/8" mini phone input for mics, and if it is stereo, it is still one trrs, not 2. Only when cams are of big enough form factor to include xlr ins do cams show up with 2 ins. Big duh. Not sure why that is supposed to be a sick burn, because that is also usually the point at which people who really care about audio quality will be doing double system and using a dedicated audio recorder connected to external, optimally positioned mics. And that is another whole topic having nothing to do with stabilization.

    Real gimbal systems - whether gravity-counterweight-based, or gyroscope-based, or hybrid - are still better at providing stable footage, especially as it is realtime instantly-reactive (so sort of "proactive") stabilization that needs no post processing, doesn't give up hotshoe slots or audio inputs, and doesn't produce artifacts or require changes in shutterspeed.


    Show's over, nothing to see here, moving on...


    Scott
    You forgot the hot shoe adapters where high end XLR mic boxes can be attached...

    For more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi_Interface_Shoe
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  10. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Mic boxes? Where are you coming up with this stuff?

    Here's what's available:

    1. Mics with mounts that utilize the hotshoe for mounting and/or power. Good for convenience but not for quality.
    Rule #1 you need to learn in doing production is that what is optimal visually often is NOT optimal audibly, and vice-versa.
    Hotshoe mounted mics are at a big disadvantage in terms of overall subject signal level, perspective, off-axis noise & echo/ambience suppression.

    2. Hotshoe mounted mixers/mic preamps. Again for convenience mounting and secondarily for power (hotshoes don't usually provide enough power for pro phantom powering, nor much for amplification).

    Either way, these are both convenience one-size-fits-all prosumer options, not real pro options. And your argument of lost faculty doesn't even hold water because one can easily and cheaply get a hotshoe extender/duplicator.

    Also, maybe YOU forgot about hotshoes, but I didn't.

    Nonetheless, all these feeble attempts at diversion from YOUR OWN TOPIC have no bearing on the main point of camera stabilization.

    IMO, that tool is a not-so-cheap way of attempting (but not fully succeeding) in solving a problem that wouldn't exist if one followed the wisdom of pros, and got a likely less expensive, but better, solution: actual physical stabilizers. Which ALL cameras of ALL flavors can benefit from.

    I'm curious: what are you regularly using for stabilization?
    I have a Glidecam with vest, a custom-built gyro gimbal device, a body-centric steering-wheel type stabilizer, a cushioned head mount system, a few small factor simple counterbalance rigs, a monopod, a couple of tripods including a hulky Manfrotto with fluid head, a dolly with track, and 2 other devices of my own invention that I won't discuss here due to intellectual property negotiation concerns (unless you sign some NDAs, waivers, etc). Not to mention electronic stabilization in-camera. And that's just for the cameras. Choice depends of the project.


    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 17th Oct 2021 at 18:47.
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  11. Member DB83's Avatar
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    The only positive from these missives is that I have accustomed myself of the class of a certain Mr Marx especially his contributions both as a guest panellist and mystery guest on 'What's my line'.
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  12. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Well done you, dB83!!
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  13. Member DB83's Avatar
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    And let's not forget when Groucho met.....


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAjOTMCq4rw
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  14. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    1. Mics with mounts that utilize the hotshoe for mounting and/or power. Good for convenience but not for quality.
    I wouldn't go that far. Some of these mics are really quite nice. I have the Deity D3 Pro. For an on-camera solution, it's quite good.

    2. Hotshoe mounted mixers/mic preamps.
    I don't know why anybody would even do that. The only reason for a hotshoe is to mount on-camera. It adds weight, makes it more bulky and wieldly. Just wire/tether to a nearby box/stand.

    hotshoes don't usually provide enough power
    Very true. If it powers it, odds are it's crap. The better mics have their own batteries.

    one can easily and cheaply get a hotshoe extender/duplicator.
    I've never heard of such a thing. Cold shoe, yes. Hot shoe, no.

    I'm curious: what are you regularly using for stabilization?
    I have a Glidecam with vest, a custom-built gyro gimbal device, a body-centric steering-wheel type stabilizer, a cushioned head mount system, a few small factor simple counterbalance rigs, a monopod, a couple of tripods including a hulky Manfrotto with fluid head, a dolly with track, and 2 other devices of my own invention that I won't discuss here due to intellectual property negotiation concerns (unless you sign some NDAs, waivers, etc). Not to mention electronic stabilization in-camera. And that's just for the cameras. Choice depends of the project.
    Nice.
    That custom gyro especially interests me.
    Are those other NDA devices small, something for personal carry?
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  16. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Gyro - it's a DIY using harddrives in a custom layout, taken from an amalgam of online projects. Thing is, it's a tradeoff - solid macrostabilization but added noise & microvibration.

    My own ones - one is sort of portable, the other certainly not.


    Scott
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  17. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Gyro - it's a DIY using harddrives in a custom layout, taken from an amalgam of online projects. Thing is, it's a tradeoff - solid macrostabilization but added noise & microvibration.

    My own ones - one is sort of portable, the other certainly not.


    Scott
    You worked in the movie industry for a while, I'm interested in what type of cameras you have at home? I mean the most modern ones.
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  18. Can't wait to see your next conversational topic after this one gets locked too, Turthler
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