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  1. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Dude, you really shouldn't speak of which you do not know.

    Cute quote, but you notice it actually does NOT say specifically which actual lenses are that way. But I checked out your lens (ZEISS® Vario-Sonnar® T*, as per the manual) and it is NOT parfocal, but vario-focal. Just like its NAME says. And - surprise - a simple google search of "parfocal lens for nikon dslr" will show you that, while nikon itself only has made 1, there are PLENTY of options out there, since those lenses are swappable. And you didn't even check to see which ones LS has.

    Plus, parfocal is not such a game changer that you want to make it out to be. Any veteran cameraperson can and WOULD be able to pull focus if necessary while zooming. I can do it with my cameras (all of which are variofocus).
    This argument reminds me of a driver that doesn't know how to break AND clutch at the same time so needs to brag about automatic transmission.

    Also, for MOST applications, a Deity mic is a MUCH more appropriate tool for on-camera-viewpoint sound than a built-in mic. It has better directionality, better quality transducer with better sensitivity, and can be outfitted with deadcat to muffle wind noise - which built-in mics can never do. Yeah, it isn't stereo, but there ARE stereo attachable mics, and I would ALWAYS recommend those over ANY built-in camera mic. And speaking as a live sound recordist for 30+ years, doing binaural and ambisonic work, the "surround" audio from built-in mics is a bit of a gimmic.

    Of course, if you were really into audio quality, you would be doing double system, with the mic(s) positioned optimally for audio, not for video.


    Scott
    Scott, I maintain my previous statements, Almost ALL Japan brand prosumer Camcorders have parfocal lens, while still cameras DSLRs did not have that, and you can not even buy such a lens system for still cameras under 10 000 $

    The direct ancestor of AX700 , the Ax100 had parfocal lenses. https://photographypx.com/best-professional-video-cameras/

    External mounted mics like Deity has very bad quality, if you try to record a couple of people sitting in a room, because they are often too directional. To record a party of a conversation where there are a lot of people around you, the internal mics of camcorders provide better quality audio.
    Last edited by Truthler; 7th Dec 2021 at 16:06.
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  2. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    No.

    You claim all these camcorders have true parfocal lenses? Which ones? Want to list them, with references?

    That article lists the 100 yes, but that is not your camera.
    And their info may be flawed - I see no actual specs from Sony that states it is capable of that, nor that yours is. I suspect the reviewer of the article just felt it was within the margin of focus to be considered as such.

    You really are out of your depth WRT sound. If you are trying to record people sitting in a room, probably one of the WORST choices for audio is to use a camera mounted mic, whether it is a 3rd party add-on (Deity) or a built-in one.

    ALL of the respected pro/semipro audio sites and most of the videographer ones recommend directional shotguns over built-ins. Not least of which has to do with isolation from camera, and cam operator, noise. As well as better transducer quality.

    Look at it this way in terms of your referenced example production:
    Whether you are recording from an onlooker perspective or an insider/participant perspective, you DO want directionality to "focus" the intended voice as the dominant one at that moment, but you also need nearness for clarity and reduction of confounding room ambience - AND you want stability of perspective. The best choice is a directed overhead shotgun boom mic (mono), or a ceiling directional mic array, or a tabletop boundary mic(s), or set of lavaliers (mixed together), or even old-school sets of mics on stands (table or floor).
    Or if you want to stage it as a "found environment" with natural multichannel ambience and less speaker dominance changes, you would use a floorstand/ceiling-mounted stereo/multichannel/binaural/ambi mic set that NEVER moves, and the mind would gloss over the A/V perspective disconnect.

    But if ONLY on-cam mics were available, a directional mono mic would more closely match any change in camera "perspective" exhibited by repositioning or panning, while not also affecting viewer playback environment. Look to the left, person A is being focused on and their sound gets louder in relation, look back to the right and person B gets louder. And it matches the camera's movements, yet is still the same stable environment to the end listener, who may be listening with speakers or headphones. A stereo or multichannel built-in setup that follows panning would exhibit a form of "shifting room" effect, as the ambience/environment would be shifting perspective along with the direct sound source, and that is more distracting/confusing to the viewer. NOT professional.

    I suspect you keep thinking like a video person and not an audio person, forgetting the the 2 should not be approached the same way and the choices made for optimum quality diverge greatly with respect to positioning and perspective.

    *************

    So, I'm curious, what does this or any of the last 20-odd posts have to do with lossless NVENC HEVC capture with camlink?
    You have been going off on different tangents to boost your cam's cred, but it's really unnecessary. As I stated, your cam is pretty decent as a prosumer cam. Would I recommend it for moviemaking? Probably not, unless "guerilla" or "indie" style. Would I recommend it for its audio? NOPE, in that respect it is just average for its class.
    But if you have been given suggestions on ways to avoid quality issues in capture, there's no need to deflect as a defense mechanism. Just take the suggestions and try them out, using scientific methods as your guide.

    Scott
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  3. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Truthler View Post
    AX700 is not a consumer product, but a prosumer product.
    Prosumer is a transition between consumer and professional level.
    Semantics. Prosumer is used by serious/rich consumers/hobbyists, and as backup by pros. The difference is generally that consumers fail to understand it's not "pro", and the pros tend to overly dismiss it as "not pro". Neither are correct.

    ALL Prosumer camcorders have parafocal objectives
    No.

    Moreover AX700 have built in ND filters too.
    That's a good thing?

    About audio. Deity is a good mic for the external outdoor street recording category, but it is not even close to the sound quality of built-in mics of pro-sumer camecorders during indoor (room) recordings.
    In room recording? That camcorder will equally suck, due to reverb and single location. My concern was outdoor audio, but not "street". Sometimes indoor studio setting, audio is narrative, and pets, I'm not recording music.

    Deity produces only dual mono sound instead of real stereo (My two AX700s have real stereo, my FDR Ax53 has dolby 5.1 mic set.
    Single-mic stereo is (usually) a gimmick, "surround" is just laughable nonsense.

    Originally Posted by Truthler View Post
    Deity is produced in USA, a country which is generally not trustable in the quality of its industrial products. That's why USA was ousted from global industrial export markets of the first world countries by Germany both in quantity and quality terms since the late 1980s . Especially in audio-visual electronics, the American products were superseded by Japan products since the 1970s.
    WTF? No.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    And you didn't even check to see which ones LS has.
    FYI, I prefer primes for video. Zooming is generally newbie fodder, or style, or need (ie, baseball games). Not a newbie, not my style, no need. The new pancake Nikkor Z f2 has minimal breathing.

    And honestly, what's the big deal with parfocal? Dynamic focus is amazing these days. And the breathing is generally far less worse than the style of "shake the hell out of the camera" (a style I've hated for the past 2 decades now). In fact, there's something to be said for a zoom and slow deblur, style.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    I suspect you keep thinking like a video person and not an audio person, forgetting the the 2 should not be approached the same way and the choices made for optimum quality diverge greatly with respect to positioning and perspective.
    This is a great example of video skills. Again, I'm not a shooter, I currently do well to not make technical mistakes. Shooting audio is a unique skill set, and again for video. Adjacent concepts, but very different. And it's complete different again from post-edit projects, where my skills are. Not just mere conversion, but restoration (salvage, even). Too many novices think they are masters of every video/audio skill simply because they (usually partially) know one (aka, "know enough to be dangerous", such as vomiting out misinformation which another newbie may unknowingly believe to be fact).

    As I stated, your cam is pretty decent as a prosumer cam.
    Same for me. It's not bad at all. Just don't pretend it the best camera ever, and all other cameras are bad. No. Nonsense. It has strengths, it has weaknesses.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    lossless NVENC HEVC
    This is such an oxymoron. It's compressed, the end. I can get H.265 from my Atomos Ninja V. Next on my shopping list is a post-M1 Mac Mini. C'mon Apple, gimme that M2! Without horsepower, editing HEVC/265 is a PITA. For me, it's a great compromise for space (and thus costs). It seems so odd to see Truthler argue some imagined ultimate" quality in one breath, and then wants to compress it in another. Make up your mind.
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  4. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by Truthler View Post
    AX700 is not a consumer product, but a prosumer product.
    Prosumer is a transition between consumer and professional level.
    Semantics. Prosumer is used by serious/rich consumers/hobbyists, and as backup by pros. The difference is generally that consumers fail to understand it's not "pro", and the pros tend to overly dismiss it as "not pro". Neither are correct.

    ALL Prosumer camcorders have parafocal objectives
    No.

    Moreover AX700 have built in ND filters too.
    That's a good thing?

    About audio. Deity is a good mic for the external outdoor street recording category, but it is not even close to the sound quality of built-in mics of pro-sumer camecorders during indoor (room) recordings.
    In room recording? That camcorder will equally suck, due to reverb and single location. My concern was outdoor audio, but not "street". Sometimes indoor studio setting, audio is narrative, and pets, I'm not recording music.

    Deity produces only dual mono sound instead of real stereo (My two AX700s have real stereo, my FDR Ax53 has dolby 5.1 mic set.
    Single-mic stereo is (usually) a gimmick, "surround" is just laughable nonsense.

    Originally Posted by Truthler View Post
    Deity is produced in USA, a country which is generally not trustable in the quality of its industrial products. That's why USA was ousted from global industrial export markets of the first world countries by Germany both in quantity and quality terms since the late 1980s . Especially in audio-visual electronics, the American products were superseded by Japan products since the 1970s.
    WTF? No.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    And you didn't even check to see which ones LS has.
    FYI, I prefer primes for video. Zooming is generally newbie fodder, or style, or need (ie, baseball games). Not a newbie, not my style, no need. The new pancake Nikkor Z f2 has minimal breathing.

    And honestly, what's the big deal with parfocal? Dynamic focus is amazing these days. And the breathing is generally far less worse than the style of "shake the hell out of the camera" (a style I've hated for the past 2 decades now). In fact, there's something to be said for a zoom and slow deblur, style.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    I suspect you keep thinking like a video person and not an audio person, forgetting the the 2 should not be approached the same way and the choices made for optimum quality diverge greatly with respect to positioning and perspective.
    This is a great example of video skills. Again, I'm not a shooter, I currently do well to not make technical mistakes. Shooting audio is a unique skill set, and again for video. Adjacent concepts, but very different. And it's complete different again from post-edit projects, where my skills are. Not just mere conversion, but restoration (salvage, even). Too many novices think they are masters of every video/audio skill simply because they (usually partially) know one (aka, "know enough to be dangerous", such as vomiting out misinformation which another newbie may unknowingly believe to be fact).

    As I stated, your cam is pretty decent as a prosumer cam.
    Same for me. It's not bad at all. Just don't pretend it the best camera ever, and all other cameras are bad. No. Nonsense. It has strengths, it has weaknesses.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    lossless NVENC HEVC
    This is such an oxymoron. It's compressed, the end. I can get H.265 from my Atomos Ninja V. Next on my shopping list is a post-M1 Mac Mini. C'mon Apple, gimme that M2! Without horsepower, editing HEVC/265 is a PITA. For me, it's a great compromise for space (and thus costs). It seems so odd to see Truthler argue some imagined ultimate" quality in one breath, and then wants to compress it in another. Make up your mind.
    AX700 have parfocal lens, and exactly the same system as AX100. You will never have parfocal lens.
    Deity is worse than the built in mix set in indoor conditions.

    And I will repeat the simple hard-fact (learn economic history, it is an interesting subject )
    That's why USA was ousted from global industrial export markets of the first world countries by Germany both in quantity and quality terms since the late 1980s . Especially in audio-visual electronics, the American products were superseded by Japan products since the 1970s.

    Haven't you heard about the mathematically lossless HEVC encoder of NVIDIA cards? It's an old story. LEARN: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Nvidia_NVENC
    You can simply record the uncompressed HDMI signal of the camera with the help of the Nvidia card.
    Why is it so complicated to understand for you?
    Last edited by Truthler; 10th Dec 2021 at 06:17.
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  5. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Parfocal? No.

    Deity worse than built-in? Right.

    USA wasn"t "ousted" from anything. No, it was desire to cut costs that moved manufacturing to Asia. Yes, that started in the 70s, you got something right at least. But since the 90s, Japan and Europe now outsource as well. Japan to rest of Asia, Western Europe to Asia and Eastern Europe. You act as if this isn't common knowledge. It's why Walmart is full of cheap Chinese shit. Or eBay and Amazon, etc. Great example = those horrid Easycap cards, garbage. Some UK person had the "bright idea" to make/dropship it from China, and then it got further KO'd by Chinese stealing plans (typical) and making it cheaper/worse (typical). Some/most/all of your precious Sony camcorder is made in non-Japan Asia. We live in a global economy, and have for decades.

    The fact is you're calling a highly compressed format "lossless", which is fine in the right context. But to act as if it means "uncompressed" is false.
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  6. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Parfocal? No.

    Deity worse than built-in? Right.

    USA wasn"t "ousted" from anything. No, it was desire to cut costs that moved manufacturing to Asia. Yes, that started in the 70s, you got something right at least. But since the 90s, Japan and Europe now outsource as well. Japan to rest of Asia, Western Europe to Asia and Eastern Europe. You act as if this isn't common knowledge. It's why Walmart is full of cheap Chinese shit. Or eBay and Amazon, etc. Great example = those horrid Easycap cards, garbage. Some UK person had the "bright idea" to make/dropship it from China, and then it got further KO'd by Chinese stealing plans (typical) and making it cheaper/worse (typical). Some/most/all of your precious Sony camcorder is made in non-Japan Asia. We live in a global economy, and have for decades.

    The fact is you're calling a highly compressed format "lossless", which is fine in the right context. But to act as if it means "uncompressed" is false.
    USA was outsed from European first world markets, due to lack of competence and quality of engineering. No wonder , due to the low level of education, USA have very low ratio of native-born scientific Nobel awards per capita. Very low.

    Why do you call the mathematically lossless codecs like NVENC HEVC Ut video Huffyuv etc... as highly compressed?
    Last edited by Truthler; 11th Dec 2021 at 07:41.
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  7. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    So what you you are saying is:

    You need confimation that your capture method is of the highest quality.

    But when confronted with holes in your methods, you go down an increasingly divergent and bizarre series of rabit holes of topics and hyperbolic proclaimations and braggadocio, even when repeatedly faced with facts counter to those claims.

    Culminating in national and personal insulting and taunting.

    Yep, classic TROLL.

    No need to engage further.


    Scott
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  8. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    So what you you are saying is:

    You need confimation that your capture method is of the highest quality.

    But when confronted with holes in your methods, you go down an increasingly divergent and bizarre series of rabit holes of topics and hyperbolic proclaimations and braggadocio, even when repeatedly faced with facts counter to those claims.

    Culminating in national and personal insulting and taunting.

    Yep, classic TROLL.

    No need to engage further.


    Scott
    Dear Corni, which of my statements has been refuted? Neither of them.
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