HDMI > Coax = Dropouts?

[companda]

Hey All,

I'm currently on an mission to archive 1080p to 480p on video tapes, because why the hell not? My setup is ATV > HDMI OUT > COAX CONVERTER > COAX OUT >VCR > DVD RECORDER >HDMI OUT TO LCD. The problem I'm getting is intermittent audio/video dropouts, but an otherwise clean and relatively stable image. Am I missing something in my daisy chain? Any and all help is appreciated.

[dellsam34]

I don't get that workflow, Why coaxial -VCR then DVD and back to HDMI, Can't you just use a scaler box with HDMI HD in and HDMI SD out?

[companda]

The workflow is this way because I just added the converter to my existing setup: All my analog equipment passes through the DVD recorder to upscale it to 1080p to my LCD. As far as I know, there aren't many options to strip HDCP from ATV without the use of of a computer or an outrageously priced converter; the coax converter ($10) carries sound/audio and converts the signal to 480p- while stripping the HDCP in the process, thus allowing me to record to tape in real time. I know it's a kind of roundabout way, but it's working aside from the dropouts.

[Skiller]

Why not eliminate Coax (RF) and use a simple, cheap RCA Composite converter instead? Coax is prone to analog noise and drop outs.

480p on video tapes

VHS tapes store only fields, so there is no 480p, it is 480i on tape.

[dvd3500]

480p on video tapes

VHS tapes store only fields, so there is no 480p, it is 480i on tape.[/QUOTE]

Even if recorded in long play or superlong play mode?

[Skiller]

Yes, of course.
In 1976, when VHS hit the market, progressive scan was unheard of in consumer electronics for decades to follow (aside from computer displays).
Any analog consumer tape format stores a sequence of fields. Just like any analog standard definition connection (RF, Composite, S-Video...) is just a succession of fields. There simply is no progressive scan with these.



But depending on your TV's (or in your case DVD-recorder's) ability to deinterlace and recombine fields, it may not make that much of a difference.
Heck, VHS not being able to natively store progressive video is one of your least concerns I think.

[companda]

Why not eliminate Coax (RF) and use a simple, cheap RCA Composite converter instead? Coax is prone to analog noise and drop outs.

Because those cheap converters don't strip HDCP and don't resize aspect ratio correctly.

[Skiller]

Because those cheap converters don't strip HDCP and don't resize aspect ratio correctly.

I don't understand because going from HDMI to anything else strips HDCP automatically since there exists no HDCP outside of HDMI.

These HDMI to Composite converter boxes seem to always output anamorphic video (not letterboxed) from a 1080i/p or 720p HDMI source. Anamorphic is good, it means you gain a whopping 33% of vertical resolution over letterboxing. Aspect ratio is not distorted if everything is set up accordingly. Coax/RF is by far the worst you can use. Even Composite shines in comparison because it doesn't break up into half a second of static when your fridge turns on. Coax/RF is your problem.

[dellsam34]

There are cheap HDMI splitters that can strip off HDCP just look for them, If you are recording 16:9 materials there will always be a compromise recording that to an ancient format that has a screen ratio of 4:3 and a resolution of a Nokia phone from the 90's, Your options are crop off the sides of the 16:9 frame and lose 40% of the frame contents, letterbox the heck of it to keep the 16:9 aspect ratio, or squeeze it for anamorphic recording if you can live with watching fat asses get skinny again unless you reverse the process using a 16:9 display panel and save some extra resolution.

The best way offcourse is get out of the cave (none of my business, just an advice) and get a HD DVR with hard drive and you don't have to mess with all that crap.

[companda]

I don't understand because going from HDMI to anything else strips HDCP automatically since there exists no HDCP outside of HDMI.

This hasn't been my experience, but I (most likely) could have been doing something wrong.

The best way offcourse is get out of the cave (none of my business, just an advice) and get a HD DVR with hard drive and you don't have to mess with all that crap.

It's really just a hobby; I like to figure out ways to mix analog and digital and this seemed like a fun project. Having said that, HULU streamed Lollapalooza last week and each day was 9 hours long, which would run me 3 whole tapes a day, where I can set it and forget it. I definitely don't have the HD space, nor the computer power for nearly 30 hours of video, but I do have 9 tapes readily available.

[themaster1]

find a new hobby: make dvd's

[companda]

find a new hobby: make dvd's

This adds nothing to the conversation and is a waste of yours and my time.

[Cornucopia]

HDCP also exists in DisplayPort. And if HD-SDI were ever to start being used for consumer carry of commercial (aka copy-protected) signals, you can bet that the powers that be would add HDCP to that also.

HDCP applies to HD signals. Getting from HD to SD will depend on how the device responds to HDCP.
If it ignores it completely (to be sold in the USA legitimately, it shouldn't), no problem converting - either to another HD signal or downscaling to an SD signal.
If it honors it, it might:
1. disallow transfer/conversion to any HD or SD sink that isn't verified as HDCP secure
2. disallow transfer/conversion to HD sinks but allow SD sinks
3. disallow transfer/conversion to HD sinks but allow SD with reduced/garbled quality
4. like #2, but if going to ANALOG SD, would add Macrovision encoding

YMMV

Scott

[dellsam34]

Some HDMI to analog devices, at least the legit ones like Gefen won't output anything out of the analog output if it senses HDCP in the HDMI input, How I know? I tried it. But they are a reputable company and they don't want to get sued, Chineses ghost companies and their knockoffs probably don't care about that.

[companda]

Some HDMI to analog devices, at least the legit ones like Gefen won't output anything out of the analog output if it senses HDCP in the HDMI input...

I have a Blackmagic device that gives me that same issue with the SDI out.

[Cornucopia]

From their perspective, that wouldn't be considered an "issue".

Scott

[Skiller]

These generic Chinese HDMI to Composite boxes for ~10 bucks that all look a lot like this do not care about any copy restrictions.


[Attachment 60171 - Click to enlarge]

[companda]

From what I've gathered, these will not work with the current version of ATV, but will with a gaming console or blu-ray players. Perhaps they did at one point, but I believe they are no longer compatible/not all apps will work properly.