NTSC Capture Has White Line Near Top of Screen

[davexnet]

I tried capturing the footage with the original Hauppauge software but it was detected with tiny blocks all over the footage. I then tried Honestech TVR2.5 but that would not even detect it.

The only software that I have that would only detect it was Power Director which has a mind of it's own & when capturing as as set it to 720 x 480 it keeps reverting back to 360 x 240.

I have captured avi footage using AmerecTV, I used the Lagarith codec.

I then converted the sample test capture with Power Director but it converts it at 720 x 480/60i

I now have no idea if it's right or what simple editing software to use apart from Power Director which is probably causing issues.

I have attached samples of the details of the capture from AmerecTV & a small sample.

Thank you again for all the help

That's horrible. Looks like the interlaced image has been resized resulting in those ugly artifacts.
Is it possible the native capture is 720x576 and that it's being resized (while still interlaced) to 720x480 ?

[DB83]

Something weird is going on now.


Your sample avi does not match the specs as posted above. While it is now NTSC there are still these letter-box borders which should not be there AND the avi is not Lagarith it is DV


So, again, you have to establish the correct output via the setting(s) on the vcr. The simplest one would be NTSC playback to PAL and capture using WinTV as Pal60. If you still have letter-boxing the culprit is the vcr.


The only other possibility is that the camera taking the footage was not set up correctly and you then live with the incorrect AR or correct it post capture as I described earlier.

[TazDave]

The specs are from AmarecTV capture, the sample is from Power Director which converted it to DV. Will WinTV with extend do the job, I don't want to buy software that won't work.
Thank you

[davexnet]

The specs are from AmarecTV capture, the sample is from Power Director which converted it to DV. Will WinTV with extend do the job, I don't want to buy software that won't work.
Thank you

Post a sample of the actual capture, straight out of AmarecTV

[TazDave]

The sample I posted before was from Amarec TV however I edited the sample with Power Director which I believe my problem possibly lies. What editing software is everyone else using?

[DB83]

I could not load the sample in to my 'basic' editor to show you how it should look and provide pointers to how you can proceed.


It makes no sense whatsoever to convert from Lagarith to DV even if that software support such a process.


Do yourself (and us) a favour. Stop messing (I could choose a more appropriate word) about with software that 'converts' and just upload the original. If it is to large for an attachment then upload it to a hosting site and provide the link.


(The editing could be done within vdub but there are easier tools as long as the sample can be loaded - but for whatever reason avidemux refused to load the DV)

[jagabo]

Open your 720x480 29.97 fps lagarith video in virtualdub(2). Select Video -> Direct Stream Copy (this will copy compressed frames directly from the input file to the output file, with no decompression, recompression, or any kind of filtering/conversion). Mark a short section with motion. Select File -> Save as AVI (virtualdub) or File -> Save Video (virtualdub2).

[dellsam34]

Don't use power director, you don't need it. Follow the members advice on how to capture in lossless and from there you can use an easy to use app like HandBrake or avidemux to encode while keeping the settings the same such as resolution, frame rate ...etc.

[TazDave]

I have attached a couple of samples I did with VirtualDub. The first sample 2 is at the start of the tape & the one labelled sample is toward the end of the tape I can see vertical lines in the video & the quality is pretty average.

I have no idea if it's my VCR or USB live-2 or the video itself.

Any help is highly appreciated

[Sharc]

Congrats! Now you got valid NTSC interlaced captures IMO, which one can rely on for further processing and discussion.
The captures show some of the typical VHS deficiencies like dot crawl and rainbows (from composite video signals) and magnetic flux variations. But technically your captures seem to be basically correct.

[dellsam34]

That faded chroma on the top of the frame is inherit to the format, it is in the tape and there is nothing you can do about it during capturing, There are filters that can fix those problems if you are into script software.

[jagabo]

Finally you have a 29.97 fps interlaced NTSC cap without missing or duplicate frames. Most of the problems are from a lack of time base correction. I presume you didn't pass the signal through your ES10 here. You need it.

[DB83]

Can not disagree with what has been said. Seems that the real culprit was PowerDirector creating those ugly, un-necessary, letter-boxing bars.


So coming back to an earlier remark of mine - there was a reply which I am still not sure addressed the concern.


Yes, you do need some Time-Base Correction which the ES10 would provide. But can the model you have, which would normally expect a PAL input, have a setting to switch it to pure NTSC input AND output. Without that the best, and still not sure even that is possible, would be quasi-pal/Pal60.

[Skiller]

I'm not sure either if the PAL ES10 and other Panasonics are able to process PAL60 inputs properly. They certainly do output PAL60 when the global setting mentioned earlier is set to PAL while playing an NTSC DVD.

Just try both of the global settings and see what happens.
If the picture is way off center vertically and/or without color in either setting, you know it does not work.

[dellsam34]

I don't think it's PAL60, from the file he posted it shows 720x480 29.97 fps, That's NTSC.

[jagabo]

I don't think it's PAL60, from the file he posted it shows 720x480 29.97 fps, That's NTSC.

The only difference between NTSC and PAL60 is the chroma subcarrier (4.43 MHz vs 3.58 MHz). The timing (525 lines, 59.94 fields per second) is the same as NTSC. So you expect a PAL60 cap to have 480 lines an 29.97 fps.

[dellsam34]

The only difference between NTSC and PAL60 is the chroma subcarrier (4.43 MHz vs 3.58 MHz). The timing (525 lines, 59.94 fields per second) is the same as NTSC. So you expect a PAL60 cap to have 480 lines an 29.97 fps.

Sometimes I get confused about these pseudo formats, So what is it called a 625 scan with 60 fields a second then?

[DB83]

the only difference between ntsc and pal60 is the chroma subcarrier (4.43 mhz vs 3.58 mhz). The timing (525 lines, 59.94 fields per second) is the same as ntsc. So you expect a pal60 cap to have 480 lines an 29.97 fps.

sometimes i get confused about these pseudo formats, so what is it called a 625 scan with 60 fields a second then?

ntsc 443 :d

[dellsam34]

So NTSC 4.43 is 625/60 with PAL chroma and PAL60 is 525/50 with PAL chroma ?

[DB83]

No. I believe the first actually has NTSC chroma. Yes. It is all quite confusing and I may well be wide of the mark. The wiki write-up simply states words to the effect that NTSC 443 is the opposite of PAL60.


Both are means to view NTSC sources on PAL equipment but NTSC 443 is only for more 'recent' tvs

[dellsam34]

Yeah I think I have to write this down on a sticky note and put it next to the computer screen, lol. But 4.43 MHz is PAL chroma not NTSC, very confusing.

[jagabo]

NTSC 433 is NTSC timing with the chroma carrier at 4.43 MHz, without alternating phase. PAL60 is NTSC timing but with the chroma carrier at 4.43 MHz and with alternating phase. Upon capture you will have 720x480 at 29.97 fps.

[DB83]

Like I said, I was somewhat off the mark.


But little of this actually helps the OP except, if memory serves, he did do an early capture with NTSC 443 and ended up with a PAL one. But that might now be discounted and what is more relevant is what his ES10 can input AND output.

[jagabo]

what is more relevant is what his ES10 can input AND output.

Yes.

[TazDave]

I changed the setting on my ES 10 to NTSC, here is the resulting captures in VirtualDub of both NTSC & PAL settings.

[DB83]

Well I do not think I need to tell you that the 1st capture is garbage.


The second is not PAL but NTSC so vdub is doing something odd here. Also there are combing artefacts and the frame size is not complete - minor letter-boxing but still borders.


Did you mean PAL60 and not PAL ? If not then try with a PAL60 capture if vdub allows for it. But also check the output settings on the ES10.

[Sharc]

The PAL version looks about valid to me, as a basis for further processing.
Here a first attempt to clean it up a bit.

[DB83]

The 'clean up' is certainly an improvement.


It is just that I would have expected a much 'cleaner' capture from the ES10.


But I still ask. Where does 'PAL' come in to this ?

[jagabo]

The PAL version looks about valid to me

But it has many missing and duplicate frames. It becomes very obvious at the end of the clip when the camera starts panning.

changed the setting on my ES 10 to NTSC, here is the resulting captures in VirtualDub of both NTSC & PAL settings.

You mean the ES10 was set to NTSC and PAL? And in both cases VitualDub was set to capture 720x480 at 29.97 fps?

[Sharc]

But it has many missing and duplicate frames. It becomes very obvious at the end of the clip when the camera starts panning.

Indeed. My guessing is that this comes from the ES10 which does line and frame TBC. Maybe doing line TBC only could even do better in this case? As far as I remember this has been discussed earlier in another thread, but I couldn't find it. Sometimes the ES10 can make things worse.
The OP's former examples without the ES10 (although from different scenes) did show garbled frames due to time base errors but no dupes and no skipped frames.
Perhaps the tape should just be recaptured, and spooled fully forward and backward once before capturing.