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  1. Member
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    Hello from Australia. I'm using my VHS multisystem which is PAL & NTSC connected to my ES10 & USB live 2.
    I've noticed a white line appears on every video capture towards the top & I have no idea what may be causing this.
    I have attached a photo of a capture and you will see the line just above the photo frame, I've tried denoising the video thinking that maybe the problem but I'm a bit stumped as everything is perfect through PAL but once I switch to NTSC this problem occurs & yes I have tried other VCR's with the same result.

    Any help will be highly appreciated.

    Thank you
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  2. Banned
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    It's probably some kind of NTSC overscan. You can remove it by cropping the video
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    Thank you pm-s. I can see the bottom of the video has over scan but I'm talking about just above the picture frame, if that's where your indicating that is a lot of video to crop out.
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    Originally Posted by TazDave View Post
    Thank you pm-s. I can see the bottom of the video has over scan but I'm talking about just above the picture frame, if that's where your indicating that is a lot of video to crop out.
    NTSC works on 480 lines while PAL works on 576. You are not losing any info
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    Also why did you scale your video snapshot to 480px. Australia is PAL and PAL uses 576 lines.
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    Hi again pm-s the existing video is NTSC hence the snapshot at 480x.
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    I should of been more specific, I'm in 4:3 converting to mp4
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    Originally Posted by TazDave View Post
    Hi again pm-s the existing video is NTSC hence the snapshot at 480x.
    Doesn't PAL/NTSC VCR for PAL markets output PAL signal? Like a letterboxed NTSC
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  9. Not sure what you mean by "white line". Is it persistet throughout the video, or just for this scene?
    Your "White line" above the frame could be VHS color flux noise, or perhaps rainbows of composite video which can be fixed with filtering.
    Also, I would recommend to capture VHS as interlaced. It looks to me like your picture has been deinterlaced and resized.
    Maybe you upload a short sample of your unprocessed captured file.
    Last edited by Sharc; 10th Jul 2021 at 03:32.
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  10. Member
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    I'm capturing at 720 x 480 & my capture settings are set to 4:3 NTSC on my PAL VCR then I convert it to mp4 as that is what my TV reads.

    This is the first time I've had to capture NTSC & I'm not sure if the original camcorder is causing the line above the photo frame.

    If there is better capture settings for Australia it would be great to know.

    Thank you
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    Capture the footage as interlaced PAL, set as PAL on your VHS, deinterlace it, crop it and change frame rate from 50 to 60 (by speeding th footage up). AFAIK PAL players slow down and letterbox NTSC footage.
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  12. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Just a thought.


    Pls also confirm that you have a true multi-system vcr and not just a pal vcr which will output ntsc as Pal60.


    But the issue could well be the ES10 which expects a pure PAL signal. Not a NTSC one or a PAL60 one.


    And a sample capture would also help.


    That precious comment about slowdown and letterboxing is pure nonsense. I have captured many a NTSC tape as PAL60. It will be captured as 720*480 29.97 fps. Only the color is converted to NTSC timing.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Just a thought.


    Pls also confirm that you have a true multi-system vcr and not just a pal vcr which will output ntsc as Pal60.


    But the issue could well be the ES10 which expects a pure PAL signal. Not a NTSC one or a PAL60 one.


    And a sample capture would also help.


    That precious comment about slowdown and letterboxing is pure nonsense. I have captured many a NTSC tape as PAL60. It will be captured as 720*480 29.97 fps. Only the color is converted to NTSC timing.
    One person told me that their ntsc DVDs play slower on their PAL dvd player so I thought same would apply for VHS. I forgot about pal60 when writing the reply. I have used VHS only like twice in my entire life (as opposed to strict 50hz dvd players)

    Thank you for correcting me DB83
    Last edited by pm-s; 10th Jul 2021 at 07:35.
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  14. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    That is a red herring.

    Dvds for PAL and DVDs for NTSC are usually edited and authored completely differently. But most commonly, if the title is the exact same edit, it goes like this:
    Pal: 24fps film source SPED UP to 25fps pal
    Ntsc: 24fps film source very slightly slowed to 23.976, then telecined (with no further change in the duration) to 29.97fps ntsc.
    To convert from pal -> ntsc that's where you would need to slow it down.

    Similarly, it has nothing to do with capture/scanning resolution differences.

    Anyway, re: the OP, that is either a hum bar due to badly filtered power (esp. if converting frequency) - though that usually slowly rolls through - or it might be an issue with the deck or with the recording. Try with a known good prerecorded movie (in ntsc). If stll there, is likely the fault of the deck.

    Can you verify that deck is putting out true ntsc and not pal60?


    Scott
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  15. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry about that tiny bar, Chances are it is in the original video, VHS is an analog format so don't expect the edges to be clean like DV or DVD. Set your VCR to NTSC 3.58, set the DVD recorder to output the same format, capture lossless interlaced AVI at 720x480, Then you can de-interlace and/or encode from there.
    If the edges really bother you de-interlace the lossless file and crop to a bare minimum in a 704:480 ratio (requires some math), then resize to 1440x1080 and encode, You will have a better looking video with minimum damage.
    Last edited by dellsam34; 10th Jul 2021 at 13:18.
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  16. Member DB83's Avatar
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    The cap still looks 'odd' though.


    If 640*480 is the accurate reflection of the captured (and converted) image then the VHS head noise would not be some way above the bottom. It should be at the bottom.


    Hence my thoughts about the ES10.


    But, again, an actual original, not converted, capture sample would help.
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    Thank you everybody for the replies.

    I'm using a Panasonic NV-FJ600 Multisystem which is PAL/NTSC

    I've been capturing as mpg which will upset the purists but I've tried using Virtual dub & Amarec TV with no success.

    My capture settings are NTSC 4 33, I've tried all the other NTSC settings with the same result & if I try to capture as PAL or PAL 60 I get a big bar across the bottom of the screen blocking the footage.

    If someone can suggest some easy to use software to use I'm willing to give it a try.

    I've attached a small sample of the original capture without the sound.

    Thank you again
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  18. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Ok. But that is not a NTSC capture. It has all PAL qualities.


    Again, I think the ES10 has done something if your original source was NTSC. There should be no letter-box border and the head-switching noise should be at the bottom of the frame. Not the active frame.
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  19. Cheap vcr for sure and pal60 don't help, if you had a real ntsc player there would be less garbage at the bottom.
    For your white line (or semi-transparent line isn't it?) may be a bad grounding issue or just cheap vcr again.
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  20. The discolored line near the top of the frame is the least of your problems. The MPG file has duplicate frames and missing frames. You need to work at getting a proper capture. What exactly do you mean by "I've tried using Virtual dub & Amarec TV with no success"?
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    The discolored line near the top of the frame is the least of your problems. The MPG file has duplicate frames and missing frames. You need to work at getting a proper capture.
    Exactly.
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    I used an ES10 to record US analog cable to DVD in the mid-2000s. I often saw an uneven, flickering, white line at the top of the screen in my recordings. I was told that I was seeing NTSC Line 21 analog closed captions, which are normally hidden in the overscan on an NTSC CRT TV. NTSC VHS also has the ability to provide this kind of closed captioning.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
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  23. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by themaster1 View Post
    Cheap vcr for sure and pal60 don't help, if you had a real ntsc player there would be less garbage at the bottom.
    For your white line (or semi-transparent line isn't it?) may be a bad grounding issue or just cheap vcr again.
    He has a true NTSC VCR, though low end, He just need to set it to NTSC 3.58. Looking at the sample posted the video looks normal, I don't see any white bar. I see a lot of artifacts that Jagabo pointed out, and the aspect ratio is completly screwed up with forced black bars on top and botoom, what a mess.
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  24. Member DB83's Avatar
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    So what are you using to capture ?


    Hauppuage Capture can only do pure NTSC (which really should be set at ntsc 3.58 on the vcr) or pure PAL


    WinTV can also do PAL60


    Someone may correct me but I thought that ES10/15 were single signal so can only process either PAL or NTSC and not both.


    For a correct capture, dropped frames etc aside, you might well have to connect the vcr direct to the usb-live and set NTSC playback on the vcr. Then properly capture 720*480 (not 720*576 as you have here) PAL 60.


    Alternatively, leave the output as NTSC and capture as NTSC


    But even leaving the capture as it is with the letter-boxing, the aspect ratio is all wrong. The effective view is 768*502 which is no where close to 4:3
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  25. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Someone may correct me but I thought that ES10/15 were single signal so can only process either PAL or NTSC and not both.
    With units sold in PAL-land there's a global setting in the menus. You select either PAL or NTSC and it'll output only in that format (PAL60 for NTSC DVDs) and only expect that format on it's inputs (SECAM is auto-detected with PAL selected).

    Don't know for sure about units sold in NTSC-land. I would expect they only support NTSC in and output, as usual.
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    I think you were right about using the ES10 with the USB Live-2. After disconnecting the ES10 & using the USB Live-2 by itself I got a better picture which I will attach a sample but the sample has tiny little vertical lines but watching it on my TV was fine, I have no idea what is causing the lines.

    I tested the tape in both Amerec TV & Virtual Dub which I got working & got the same result.

    My family wants the videos to be mp4, can I convert the footage to a custom ratio 720 x 480?

    The video I have does not have a standard remote only a universal one which I have no idea how to manually change the settings on the VCR to the correct NTSC ratio, I contacted the seller hoping he might have some ideas.

    Thank you again
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  27. Member DB83's Avatar
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    You probably now see the time-base errors that the ES10 was filtering out.


    But your capture settings are still PAL hence the letter-boxing you see and the wrong aspect ratio.


    So I concur that this can only be corrected once you can set your vcr to the proper outout (Amarec picks the source automatically)


    720*480 is only the storage ratio for NTSC just as 720*576 is likewise for PAL. The automatic mpeg 4:3 display for these is 640*480 (which you were using) and 768*576. To be certain that all your family can play these back correctly you encode at a set 4:3 ratio (720*540 can be used for both). However to do this for the 'NTSC' sample you really will have to crop those letter-boxing bars away
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  28. @TazDave: What software did you use to encode and compress your 'Test Capture.mpg' to mpeg-2 (*.mpg)? Was it encoded on the fly (i.e. during capturing)? Did you use Hauppauge's "Hauppauge Capture" which is shipped with the USB-Live2 (or can be downloaded from their site)?
    If so, make sure that you select the NTSC format from its settings. Now it looks like it has been set to "PAL" and letterboxed accordingly and oddly framerate converted (720x576, 25i).

    In case you decide to crop your capture make sure to crop interlace compliant (mod4 vertically). Otherwise you destroy the field structure.
    If you decide to resize (vertically) you should (bob-)deinterlace before resizing, otherwise the fields will be messed up.

    Sidenote: I would suggest that you capture the tapes 'lossless' in a first step (using a codec like Huffyuv or Lagarith with AmarecTV), and convert to mpeg-2 or AVC + multiplex in an .mp4 container in a second step only (off line) according to your needs.
    Last edited by Sharc; 11th Jul 2021 at 06:35. Reason: Sidenote added, typos
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  29. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    But your capture settings are still PAL hence the letter-boxing you see and the wrong aspect ratio.
    And the jerky motion from discarding one of every six fields to convert 60 fields per second to 50 fields per second.

    So yes, you need to capture with NTSC settings, 720x480 29.97 fps.
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    I tried capturing the footage with the original Hauppauge software but it was detected with tiny blocks all over the footage. I then tried Honestech TVR2.5 but that would not even detect it.

    The only software that I have that would only detect it was Power Director which has a mind of it's own & when capturing as as set it to 720 x 480 it keeps reverting back to 360 x 240.

    I have captured avi footage using AmerecTV, I used the Lagarith codec.

    I then converted the sample test capture with Power Director but it converts it at 720 x 480/60i

    I now have no idea if it's right or what simple editing software to use apart from Power Director which is probably causing issues.

    I have attached samples of the details of the capture from AmerecTV & a small sample.

    Thank you again for all the help
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