Saw this pop up and thought it was pretty interesting.
Any of the hardware folks have any opinion on the list of modifications here? Would be awesome if some people started refurbing these. Although this price point seems insane to me.
Datavideo TBC-1000 Single Channel Full Frame 4:2:2 Time Base Corrector
Refurbished with Low-Noise Modifications
Full documentation available as PDF on request
Modified TBC-1000 device
12V 1.5A power supply with ferrite bead
2x Male BNC to female RCA adapters for composite video
2x Male S-Video to female BNC adapters for S(Y/C) video
4x Male/Male BNC patch cables
2x BNC 75Ω terminators
Modifications Made in TBC-1000 ModV1RevB
The goal of the modifications we’ve made is to provide the high-quality, low-noise signal characteristic of the TBC-100 device, while maintaining the convenience of being a standalone device. The result is a device that is perfectly suited for incorporation into a modern analog video digitization workflow: the most common use case of the TBC-1000 device today. Modifications from the original device are as follows:
Distribution amplifier board removed entirely.
Power supply uses a linear voltage regulator—the same regulator used in the TBC-100 product.
All electrolytic capacitors replaced with new Nichicon brand capacitors.
BNC connectors are used for all inputs and outputs—for both composite and S-Video signals.
New internal coax wire from connectors soldered directly to PCB, providing the cleanest possible signal path to the board.
Input selector toggle switch added, allowing for input to be selected regardless of which cables are connected to the device.
All inputs and outputs moved to the back of the unit.
The status LED on the TBC-100 board (previously hidden from view inside of the case) is exposed as a blue LED on the front panel of the device, providing more insight into the operation of the device.
Install equipment as shown in the installation diagrams. Add BNC terminators to unused output connectors.
Set the input selector switch to the desired input signal (composite vs. S-Video).
Turn the power switch on. Red power LED will illuminate and blue status LED will flash in regular 3-second intervals.
Signal will be output to both composite and S-Video outputs regardless of which input is used.
Unit is capable of running continuously for many hours. However, it is recommended to power off the unit using the power switch in the back when not in use to extend its lifetime.
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Good luck to him, He is asking almost $4k for it, People think okay I got money in the bank I buy it use it then sell it, Chances of selling it at the same price is slim to none not to mentien the losses involved which can amount to up to $500 between shipping, insurance, ebay fees and Paypal fees.
I like the S-Video to BNC mod though.
Last edited by dellsam34; 16th Jun 2021 at 15:14.
The price is utterly outrageous, but this is where we are now. Anything slightly old related to audio, video or photography with a definite "cult" behind it has skyrocketed, along with service fees to repair them. The eBay price floor for "pig in a poke" random untested DataVideos sold by indifferent non-tech sellers is north of $1500, so $3K for a well-renovated customized TBC-1000 is in line with that. Basically if you did not buy one of these ten years ago when they littered eBay for $400-$500 LNIB, you're screwed today if you suddenly need one.
I've been in touch with someone who had this eBay tech retrofit these mods (except for the SVideo>BNC conversion) on his own existing TBC-1000. The work was done very very cleanly: the mods look better than DataVideo's original construction, so he clearly has experience doing careful work on delicate electronics. Functionally the unit performs well, with none of the annoying quirks of the original unmodified design. While the price is absurd, if you want/need a really solid TBC-1000 and can afford the cost this person might be a good resource. Personally, I'm interested but can't afford it right now: luckily my stock TBC-1000 is in good working order aside from the typical glitchy internal wiring harness.
Last edited by orsetto; 16th Jun 2021 at 17:59.
Yeah the price is definitely ridiculous. These TBC1000s are pretty often going for over $1k these days, so I could see up to 2 grand for a refurbished and modified one like this. But double that price is just another level.
Would be awesome to replicate this though at a price point that is a little more reasonable.
"Refurbished with Low-Noise Modifications" is potentially nonsense.
There's only 2 things that can be done.
- replace bad caps, which MAY or MAY NOT fix cap-induced noise
- bypass the VP299, which again MAY or MAY NOT remove jailbar noise when present
I've been rebuilding TBC-1000s for years. It's neither easy nor fun. My rebuilts have been in the $2k range.
That price is ridiculous.
Replacing s-video with BNC is dumb as hell. The BNC adapters are an added potential quality reducer, and most BNC cables suck compared to s-video (including dirt-cheap s-video cables).
The TBC-100 "status LED" does nothing that makes any sense, not documented at all. Knowing DataVideo, there's a good chance it was an abandoned LED that did nothing more than randomly flash due to having no instructions in the chipsets.
It comes across as a pointless hobby project ("gee, I wonder if I could do ___ to it?") trying to be sold for 2x+ fair market value for any TBC. For $4k, get a 3rd-gen TBC-3000 (will take time to locate), which crushes TBC-1000 quality in all regards.
Its the same with other desirable items needed for transfer work, like restoring the fabled and infamous Panasonic AG-1980 VCR. Currently, the few dedicated techs specializing in that work are charging $700 or more to fully service a customer's own AG-1980, while one tech who also sells turnkey restored 1980s is asking $1500 and up for them.
The cost today is far beyond what most of us were used to paying for functional examples of such items 10-15 years ago, but times change and supply of working as-is units dries up. Today many of these legendary devices need a complete overhaul by a tech who truly knows what they're doing. That specialized skill and knowledge comes at a price, but if you watched over their shoulder and saw the time/effort involved you'd understand the cost. You still wouldn't like it, but you'd understand it.
eBay's shady business model changed yet again this past year, to the point they are now actively hostile and quite abusive to sellers. So asking prices for specialty items like this modded TBC-1000 on eBay do not necessarily reflect the world outside the hothouse trainwreck that is eBay. Sellers are padding prices by a huge percentage just to make up for how eBay is screwing them over, plus to discourage the sort of typical a-hole game-playing buyer that now makes every eBay sale fraught with risk. If there was a reasonably accessible alternative to eBay selling, I'm pretty sure that $2995 starting price would be hundreds less.
For perspective, check what technicians are charging to restore a vintage Thorens belt drive turntable or overhaul a Rolleiflex TLR. Its altogether beyond the pale, and out of reach now for any average Joe without deep pockets. There was a great pricing divide around 2010: if you got into these interests before then, purchase price plus overhaul verged on reasonable. After 2010, everything doubled, tripled, quadrupled as demand went up and supply of items and skilled techs dwindled.
The divide was between 2010-2015. There was a lull, less DIY, more gear available. That same gear is either now broken, or in the hands of hobbyists and pros that are not letting go. Almost no supply, high demand. That's unlikely to change. The support levels for these best TBCs is now well within the $1k-2k range, don't expect a drop. Most items these days comes from estate sales, storage units, etc -- not owners that knew how these work (or were supposed to work). So you too often pay a high price to somebody that doesn't know if it even works, when using eBay.
Many of us actually pre-date the 2000s for video. I remember when TBCs were $500-$1k new, then AVT-8710 a bit less (far less during black junk days), then back up to $500-$1k, then inflation in past 4-5 years slowly drove those into current valuations. Inflation has hit everything from food to hobbies. Back in 2014, a retail 6" action figure was about $15. Now it's $25+. That won't be going down. The after-market for figures is easily 2x+ in most cases, if you don't grab it in stores during the short window of availability.
I routinely see people pay $$$$ for singular car parts and $$$ for a single action figure. The car parts are a mix of stupid (pricey spinny things) and functional (true parts), and the action figures are just pretty stuff for your shelf. A TBC is an advanced tool, sharing more with a riding lawnmower than a Netflix subscription (ie, "video"). That Netflix sub is $ peanuts, while the mower is $$$$. You cannot conflate all video in terms of budget and valuation. A VCR at Walmart in the 2000s is NOT the basis upon which to value TBCs. To be blunt, it's just being clueless about economic reality. Somebody else will buy it (unless the price is just unreasonable, as is the case here), having seen the value, while you dawdle and whine. Odds are, the longer you wait, the more it'll cost later. TBCs are an unavoidable necessity for quality video capture -- or the ability to capture at all. It's a tool required for the task that we've elected to do ourselves, rather than pay others (who may or may not be using TBC, far too many bad services out there, which is likely why you want to DIY).
I don't see that eBay is some horrible place for sellers, but in fact worse for the buyers. The "buyer protection" can literally drag on for 2-3 months, while you're out both money and item. There are known video gear scammers, namely that butthole in Houston, that will fight you, and it will drag out. He's further figure out a way to game the system to remove negative feedback, and has multiple usernames. So sellers don't necessarily get the raw deal, sometimes sellers ARE the raw deal. I paid $700 for a "new" (BS!) SSD earlier this year, and it took 2 months to resolve. No refund, no SSD, and I was pissed, for 2 months.
TBCs and pricing require a different mindset. You can't simply declare something "expensive" without knowing what goes into it, what it does. It's not a toaster.
The TBC-1000 is intended for use with (at very least) s-video input from quality decks, meaning adapter needed.
Passing the TBC out to BNC is unusual, somewhat mixing gear. I know you like SDI workflows, and that's where you're coming from. But in general, it's far more complicated, and limiting in several ways. Serious users generally don't want to touch it, and casual users definitely don't want to. I guess if you insist on BNC-using workflow, this is what you're been waiting for. Go for it, $4k, that's all you.
s-video isn't flimsy, and BNC isn't firm. Each has slop in connections and cables. What I can say is that a cheap BNC is bad news, while a cheap s-video is almost always fine. The separated wires don't induce noise the same as other connections. Shielding is less important on s-video that others. It's one of the few times that you can go cheap with video, and still be perfectly fine. (Note: Not all cheap cables. But many are fine.)
Running longer is mostly about gauge and shielding.
I've had two s-video connectors go bad in 30 years. I rarely see or hear about that. The main issue is constant plug-unplug-replug that kills those.
You don't need adapters (see picture below), One cable with one side BNC the other side S-Video, Yes dual BNC can look ugly, S-Video is sexy, But I've had captures with chroma flicker that I traced back to a faulty S-Video socket with good soldier joints, Unfortunatly those sockets on the back of the VCR are proprietary and finding the exact replacement part is impossible, The only way to keep the original socket is to keep changing S-Video cables and hope for the best. Never had that happen with BNC equiped decks or cables and I do have cheap BNC cables. At the end of the day mods like these are personal customisations for better performance, it never meant to keep the stock look. One may like the orginal Mustang, another likes the performance add on.
Last edited by dellsam34; 17th Jun 2021 at 02:49. Reason: Added picture
I've never seen BNC>YC cables that weren't crappy, even the expensive ones from Extron. The one shown above has essentially no shielding, and is completely flimsy. I've had a difficult time finding good BNC<>s-video in the past, and it always irritates me. Yet ironically, BNC<>composite was far easier, simply using a good BNC<>composite adapter (not cheap, not gold, but good). In fact, those exact BNC/composite devices had a fairly robust composite, not blurry like many devices (thus proving bad composite is due to bad connections/devices, not entirely the fault of composite itself).
I am so glad I finished my vhs projected 9 years ago !, I had good luck with this little thing..........https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276891-REG/AV_Toolbox_AVT_8710_AVT_8710_Multi_S...Time_Base.htmlPAL/NTSC problem solver.
USED TO BE A UK Equipment owner., NOW FINISHED WITH VHS CONVERSIONS-THANKS
Well documented: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/vcr-repair/3053-avt-8710-doa.html
Selling high value items like JVC vcrs, DataVideo TBCs, hifi gear or good cameras on eBay was always slightly risky but is today almost untenable. Postage rates for high value insured items (or items heavier than a snow globe) are through the roof: all it takes is one selfish ass buyer to sink you financially (no refund on 3% PayPal fees, you must refund original shipping, and also pay for return shipping even for blatantly obvious buyer's remorse on new items). So someone selling a $700 item that is reasonably priced at $700 (i.e., at or below market price) risks at least a 50/50 chance that item will be bought and returned frivolously, possibly twice, at an out-of-pocket total loss of $90 to $200.There is no arguing with eBay on this point: you can march right into their offices in person and demonstrate the item was flawless, and they'll just shrug their shoulders and say "nothing we can do, buyer is always right, check your latest seller agreement fine print".
Sellers who drag their feet, seek arbitration or refuse to comply have their assets frozen and their account seized. This is esp potent since eBay effectively killed PayPal for sellers last December and insists on direct access to seller bank accounts, with eBay holding up sales payments for as long as they want (in many cases, insisting you ship the item before they release the payment money to your bank). So yeah, a handful of real dedicated PT Barnum scam sellers do figure workarounds to defy eBay, which is how LS got stiffed on that SSD deal, but such experiences are far far less common today than sellers getting completely torched by buyers.
Last edited by orsetto; 18th Jun 2021 at 14:29.
I am the owner of this auction, and I appreciate all of the feedback. I've lowered the starting price for the auction and enabled the feature to make offers. If you have any questions for me please feel free to contact me directly or ask in this thread. Thanks!
Nice, thanks for chiming in.
The relocation of the connectors all to the back and the new caps alone make this pretty desirable at this price point at least. Always wanted to rack mount my TBC1000, obviously inputs on the front cause issues with that.
Figured I would share the documentation that I mention in the auction listing… see attached.
Well documented modification and great information, Like any consumer device TBC-1000 is built with money saving in mind using readily available cheap components, But you did bring it up to standards used by proffesional gear, Kudos. I would love to make you an offer but I just don't need it, Hopefully it finds a better home.
The irony here is that cheap free s-video cables are often fine. The s-video cables that came with my JVC VCRs are some of the best cables that I still use. Most others are disposable, and I toss at least 1 pair in the trash every year (or recycle when I can). So I consider BNC a downgrade.
Question: What do you think the value of the VP-301x LED is? Because as far as I know (and I inquired with DataVideo on this), the LED is just random flashing. It's one of those things on the TBC-100 that had intentions, but didn't go anywhere. There's a number of aspects of the TBC-100 (and TBC-1000) that were scrapped before release, and just never changed.
The re-cap is nice, but it only addresses the output block. The input of the TBC-1000 is far more problematic.
If you ever want to discuss the TBC-1000 more in-depth, fell free to contact me. I'm all for upgrading these (remove VP-299, etc, just not BNC), and refurb'ing when needed (re-cap, etc). As you surely realize, it takes time and funds to put a TBC-1000 back into shape.
I am the one Orsetto mentioned was in contact with who has the modified TBC-1000. Yes mine doesn't have Y/C bnc's but I contacted Blue Jean Cable and ordered a s-video [male] to two bnc [male]. It's made by Belden and seems pretty nice quality.
Overall I'm very happy with Bradley's work on my modified TBC-1000. He emailed pictures, documentation, constant contact with the progress, printout of all documentation. I'd like to believe it's as good or better than the TBC-100.
I had been closely monitoring eBay, even had Datavideo TBC-1000 saved in a search so I'd get a notification when one got listed. After a few weeks of no notifications I checked the completed listings/sold items and saw about four that all sold the second they got listed. Then one got listed (by Bradley) so I contacted him to see if he could either re-cap and/or bypass the distribution board. Who needs four outputs when capturing? With a few suggestions from Orsetto, which I relayed to Bradley they were incorporated in his mods for the better. All the TBC-1000's that recently were listed sold for $1400+. Then someone had a rack of gear with a TBC-1000 with the auction, and later listed the TBC-1000 separately and that stock unit sold for $1850.
Hey you guys have been watching this too.
It's mentioned that during this modification the power supply was changed to a linear voltage regulator. You said the switch-mode regulator adds noise to the system via ripple voltage.
One of the upsides of the TBC 100 is that it's connected to a computer's PSU. It's been said that TBC 1000s are sensitive to a dirty grid which next to aging caps can add to most of the noise which the TBC100 avoids. I wonder if this mod addresses that.
Overall looks like stellar and quality work. I hope it makes it to a good home whoever ends up buying it.
Linear regulators (as long as they are properly cooled) add very little noise to the incoming voltage. This mod uses a Texas Instruments LM7805 linear regulator thermally-mounted to the metal case of the box, away from the main board itself. I think this is pretty close to ideal and gives the user the most options. An interesting and very inexpensive idea might be to power the device from a 3S lithium battery connected to the DC jack instead of a power supply. This would probably give you less noise than even a computer's PSU. Just make sure the battery has built-in over-discharge protection and does not do any sort of voltage regulation. An example of a suitable battery and protection board:
With this battery you could probably run the device for about 6-8 hours on a full charge.
I know many on here already know this, but for any non members browsing. A voltage regulator works by detecting any changes in the power supply and then adjusting it according to the load. It converts dirty power into a clean one without any disruptions. Some regulators introduce more noise than others. The TBC 1000s can be notoriously noisy or not depending on your location.
Your documents provide a great explanation outlying the differences between the 100 and 1000 model design in better terms than I have ever read in other forums before. They most definitely are not the same. Very useful information for future modders themselves.
Within the next two weeks I am loading off and selling a bunch of my unused equipment and will be in the market for a "new" TBC. However I really need proc controls in my setup and it would be nice not to have to locate and use a separate Sima SCC. Depending on what I can find out there I may end up gravitating towards the TBC 1000 if I don't find another option.
Last edited by BenKlesc; 24th Jun 2021 at 04:24.
Have a question for you ccbradley, what's your testing process on these? I ask anyone who seems to know about fixing them, as I want to make sure my gear is still operating correctly. Do you have a specific way of verifying it's working correctly and the noise is acceptable?
The process is relatively quick to determine pass/fail when comparing the output signals from a known-good TBC-1000 and a TBC-1000 under test.
As I'm sure you already know by now, 90% of the used "pro" pizza-box rack mount TBCs with proc amps are either in dismal decrepit condition or unoptimized for VHS (usually both). While most newer, VHS-friendly units employed funky turn-of-the-millennium bespoke electronics that aged like goat cheese on a hot summer sidewalk between 2003 and today. TBCs with menu or button-controlled proc amps like the DataVideo TBC-3000 and the built-ins of some late JVC and Panasonic studio VCRs are often dysfunctional and unrepairable now. They worked well and earned a good rep when new, but peak performance lasted only a few years before rot set in. After digital killed off the market for pricey analog correction devices, repairs and spare parts for sophisticated modern combo gear designs dried up.
Which is the long way of saying you'll likely have more success picking up a basic separate TBC and proc amp. For the latter, units from Sign Video seem to enjoy popular acclaim here and at DigitalFAQ.