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  1. Member
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    I have been using Yadif to deinterlace and doubling the frame rate for MP4 conversion, But I will now be creating DVDs, which use 29.97 as frame rate. I am wondering if I should use yadif without doubling the framerate since I know that the target DVD won't male use of the higher frame rate anyway.

    My thinking is that I may as well keep the framerate the same. In your opinion which is a better method?
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  2. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    In your opinion which is a better method?
    None of both, for DVD don't deinterlace interlaced videos. Encode interlaced (29.97i).
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  3. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Do not deinterlace.
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    Can you share your reasoning on why not to deinterlace?
    I can't guarantee that the playback equipment will be able to detect whether it is deinterlaced. I have no idea what TV the users will be using or whether they know how to set their playback equipment to deinterlace? It's going to the whole family.

    The TV I am testing it on is not deinterlacing it.
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    what is the frame rate of your source?
    Open the source in mediainfo (text view) and post the info here
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    The framerate of my source is 29.97.
    It was captured from VHS to Huffyuv

    The media file says progressive, but it has visible combing if I do not deinterlace.

    I am aware of the advice not to deinterlace because modern equipment is supposed to do this for you. But I am not sure every family member has a TV or DVD that deinterlaces automatically. I don't expect them to know how to change their settings. it seemed easier just to deinterlace it before creating the DVD.

    Here is the relevant mediainfo section:

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : HuffYUV
    Format version : Version 2
    Codec ID : HFYU
    Duration : 1 h 30 min
    Bit rate : 75.9 Mb/s
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 3:2
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Standard : NTSC
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 7.331
    Stream size : 48.0 GiB (98%)

    Thank you.
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    You should covert it to DVD as interlaced mpeg-2.
    Was it captured from VHS?

    What software are you using to create the DVD?
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  8. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    The TV I am testing it on is not deinterlacing it.
    Please confirm that you are playing back to your tv with a DVD player from a disk and not a memory stick or other player.

    Deinterlacing should not be necessary when creating a DVD
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  9. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post

    The TV I am testing it on is not deinterlacing it.
    Encode the DVD you plan as interlaced and the television will deinterlace it. What happens when you play the AVI means nothing.
    Last edited by manono; 24th May 2021 at 16:56.
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    That is the capture file before any encoding I did. It says progressive even though it is interlaced. I don't know why. There is no way to tell huffyuv that the video is interlaced.

    Yes, it is a DVD on a DVD Player and the result is combing on an HDTV for any DVD I create that I do not deinterlace.
    DVD styler is what I use.

    It went from VHS to Huffyuv

    Monamo, maybe it wasn't clear. the mediainfo section I posted is the capture file before I did anything to it I do the following

    1. Capture from VHS.
    The file says progressive, but the video is not.

    This is the file you see.

    2. Then I Re-encode the file file using yadif as the filter.
    The resulting file says progressive and is progressive.

    3. I use DVD styler to create a progressive DVD, which is what I want.
    I can't rely on any assumptions about the capabilities of the equipment people will be playing it back on.
    Last edited by jpvoodoo; 24th May 2021 at 17:26.
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    Which software did you use to encode the DVD?
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  12. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    Yes, it is a DVD on a DVD Player and the result is combing on an HDTV for any DVD I create that I do not deinterlace.
    Where's the MediaInfo for those DVDs? Are you sure you didn't encode them as progressive? If so, go back and reencode, this time as interlaced.
    The file says progressive, but the video is not.
    AVIs don't carry progressive and interlaced flags. It'll call all AVIs as progressive. That means nothing.
    I can't rely on any assumptions about the capabilities of the equipment people will be playing it back on.
    Of course you can. If your source is interlaced and if you encode the DVD as interlaced, then all DVD players will deinterlace it, and using better quality deinterlacers than Yadif.
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    AVIs don't carry progressive and interlaced flags. It'll call all AVIs as progressive. That means nothing..
    This is the little tidbit I have been looking for. This had me barking up the wrong tree.


    Of course you can. If your source is interlaced and if you encode the DVD as interlaced, then all DVD players will deinterlace it, and using better quality deinterlacers than Yadif.
    Thank you. Lets see if I understand you correctly?

    ***Assuming my source AVI is interlaced.

    When I encode to interlaced DVD, it will not interlace the already interlaced content. Correct?

    The result will be a single-interlaced DVD that all DVD players in the world will deinterlace before sending the signal to the TV. Correct?
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    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    The result will be a single-interlaced DVD that all DVD players in the world will deinterlace before sending the signal to the TV. Correct?
    In most cases these days, yes. Not that it makes a difference to the viewer but with some player/connectors/TV scenarios it is actually the TV doing the deinterlacing. But that is not an issue. Any TV is able to deinterlace in such case.
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    Originally Posted by Skiller View Post
    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    The result will be a single-interlaced DVD that all DVD players in the world will deinterlace before sending the signal to the TV. Correct?
    In most cases these days, yes. Not that it makes a difference to the viewer but with some player/connectors/TV scenarios it is actually the TV doing the deinterlacing. But that is not an issue. Any TV is able to deinterlace in such case.
    It may be true that any TV is ABLE to. It may also be true that a DVD player is CAPABLE.

    I am trying to guarantee that any person who plays this DVD is seeing a non interlaced picture.
    The advice I was given is not to de-interlace at all. I can only follow this advice if I am absolutely certain that 100% of all DVD players always deinterlace all content by default without any adjustment by the owner. I want them to put the DVD in and see a de-interlaced picture without any technical knowledge of progressive vs interlaced or how to set up a dvd player. The previous poster said that all DVD players de-interlace by default, therefore de-interlacing is unnecessary. If that is the case, then his advice make sense. I am just clarifying this.

    I really just came here to find out how I should do something, not whether I should. But if the advice meets my use case better, I am willing to hear it out.
    Last edited by jpvoodoo; 24th May 2021 at 20:30.
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  16. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    The previous poster said that all DVD players de-interlace by default
    I don't see anyone saying that. If the content is interlaced and you've encoded it as interlaced, then all DVD players (or the televisions to which they're connected) will deinterlace it. Progressive content encoded as progressive won't be deinterlaced.

    The flag we speak of is just a bit of 'software'. It's just an on or off, a 1 or a 0. All MPEG encoders have a place where you set or don't set the progressive flag. Just make sure you do it correctly. Check using MediaInfo afterwards. Or use AvsToDVD to save yourself from having to make difficult decisions.
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    If you do try AVStoDVD you have the tell the program the source is interlaced:
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/398910-AVStoDVD-Is-Adding-Options-Without-My-Consent#post2596026
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    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    The previous poster said that all DVD players de-interlace by default
    I don't see anyone saying that. If the content is interlaced and you've encoded it as interlaced, then all DVD players (or the televisions to which they're connected) will deinterlace it. Progressive content encoded as progressive won't be deinterlaced.

    If you are not saying that all DVD players deinterlace by default, then your previous statement is untrue. I made this point earlier-that I can't make assumptions about whether the user's equipment is configured to deinterlace.

    I can't rely on any assumptions about the capabilities of the equipment people will be playing it back on.
    I Of course you can. If your source is interlaced and if you encode the DVD as interlaced, then all DVD players will deinterlace it, and using better quality deinterlacers than Yadif.
    So would you agree that for the conditions of my use case, it is appropriate to deinterlace manually to guarantee that any device playing my DVD will produce a deinterlaced picture since I cannot assume that all DVD players will play a deinterlaced picture by default?.

    If so, we are back to my original question. I get the argument for why letting the equipment do it is better. I really do and if I were making the DVD for my use only, i would follow your advice without question.

    I am still not clear about whether dvdstyler will interlace an already interlaced source. Does setting it to interlaced just tell dvdstyler that the source is already interlaced or does it actually interlace it?
    Last edited by jpvoodoo; 25th May 2021 at 05:58.
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  19. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    You are making this way more complicated than it is.


    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    I am trying to guarantee that any person who plays this DVD is seeing a non interlaced picture.
    The advice I was given is not to de-interlace at all. I can only follow this advice if I am absolutely certain that 100% of all DVD players always deinterlace all content by default without any adjustment by the owner
    The average viewer does not know about the technicalities of interlacing and yet, magically, it just works all the time. That is because a DVD is expected to be interlaced more than any other digital media is! By default, a DVD gets deinterlaced no matter what, unless a flag says otherwise (not the other way around).
    I guarantee if the disc is played by any hardware player on any TV (not computer monitor) there won't be any issues (provided the disc was encoded and flagged correctly of course). Simple as that.

    I cannot however guarantee it if the disc is played on a computer or laptop (whole different story).



    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    I get the argument for why letting the equipment do it is better.
    Simple and short anwer: Encoding interlaced keeps the full smoothness of motion.

    Remember, there are 60 fields per second worth of motion on the original VHS tape. Since DVD does not support 60p, deinterlacing to 30p pretty much deletes half of your original video and motion will be rather choppy in comparison. Encoding interlaced keeps all of what was originally there. A DVD player or TV will always deinterlace such DVD to 60p rather than 30p.
    Last edited by Skiller; 25th May 2021 at 10:11.
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  20. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Here is an article which pretty much sums up everything written above.


    http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-interlaced-vs-deinterlaced.htm


    Now the OP states that is Huffyuv capture is interlaced despite the mediainfo report. So I did some sample captures both in vdub and AmarecTv using this codec and all report the capture as interlaced not progressive as reported. A Lagarith capture does not even report it. Even if mediainfo assumes based on the codec it does not explain the inconsistency here. I could not find a direct way to capture as progressive but I do wonder if some filter is also included in the capture path.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Here is an article which pretty much sums up everything written above.


    http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-interlaced-vs-deinterlaced.htm


    Now the OP states that is Huffyuv capture is interlaced despite the mediainfo report. So I did some sample captures both in vdub and AmarecTv using this codec and all report the capture as interlaced not progressive as reported. A Lagarith capture does not even report it. Even if mediainfo assumes based on the codec it does not explain the inconsistency here. I could not find a direct way to capture as progressive but I do wonder if some filter is also included in the capture path.
    According to Monamo, An AVI capture always flags any capture as progressive. Although he does not mention Huffyuv in particular,

    I believe I had one instance where it was flagged interlaced.

    At that time, I had the interlace/progressive on the VCR switched to interlaced.

    i have a theory that this switch may control whether the capture software believes it is interlaced.

    In other words, because my VCR is switched to progressive, the Huffyuv codec might believe it captured a progressive signal, even though the tape is interlaced.

    That's what I am wondering.

    So then what is the correct setting if I have an interlaced tape? Is the flag irrelevant like Monamo said or might this switch play a role?

    As for whether a DVD player deinterlaces interlaced video. I found a setting in DVD styler that created an interlaced DVD ISO. When I tried it in VLC, VLC deinterlaced it. When I turned off deinterlacing in VLC, it was interlaced. When my DVD-Rs get here, I'm going to burn an interlaced DVD and give monamo's idea another shot.
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  22. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    According to Monamo, An AVI capture always flags any capture as progressive. Although he does not mention Huffyuv in particular,

    I believe I had one instance where it was flagged interlaced.
    The flags of the capture AVI don't mean anything a proper VHS capture is always interlaced if the settings are correct. If it's not interlaced at all, something's fishy.


    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    At that time, I had the interlace/progressive on the VCR switched to interlaced.
    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    In other words, because my VCR is switched to progressive, the Huffyuv codec might believe it captured a progressive signal, even though the tape is interlaced.
    A VCR doesn't have such options, unless maybe you are talking about a combo unit (VCR/DVD/HDD) with progressive output options via Component and/or HDMI (Composite and S-Video outputs are not affected by this, they are always interlaced!).


    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    i have a theory that this switch may control whether the capture software believes it is interlaced.
    Doubt it as there is no way there could be any communication between capture hardware and VCR. The capture device takes whatever the VCR provides what's on the tape.


    Conclusion: If you want a definitive answer provide a small sample of your raw capture. Otherwise it's just guesswork.
    Last edited by Skiller; 27th May 2021 at 12:23.
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  23. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post

    According to Monamo, An AVI capture always flags any capture as progressive. Although he does not mention Huffyuv in particular,
    None of this makes any difference at all, as already said. You set (or don't set) the progressive flag when doing the encoding for DVD. If not set as progressive (meaning interlaced), then it'll automatically be deinterlaced. What's so hard to understand?

    Apparently, when I said, "It'll call all AVIs as progressive." that was incorrect. I forgot about DV AVIs and DB83 discovered other oddities. But the point remains. Since the HuffYUV AVI isn't your final format, what MediaInfo says about it doesn't matter at all.

    I'm going to burn an interlaced DVD and give monamo's idea another shot.
    It's not an 'idea'. DVDs with interlaced content encoded as interlaced are required to be deinterlaced by the player or the television to which it's connected.. All standalone DVD players will do the job, no matter how cheap they are. As Skiller already stated.
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    Update. I just tried to make a DVD in DVD styler setting the target to interlaced. The result came out wavy, the way a person on LSD might see. I didn't see a point in burning a dvd.

    For the record, I am now trying an interlaced source that is marked as progressive in the AVI and encoding as progressive in DVD styler on the hope that because the source is interlaced, it will make no changes and come out interlaced. If that works, maybe the DVD player will correctly deinterlace it.
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  25. Member DB83's Avatar
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    If you still have the vob from that 'LSD' dvd trim a short sample using avidemux post it here as a attachment. Do likewise with the avi source. If you do not have the vob (or can not recover it) then just upload the sample of the avi.


    There's simply too much guess work here to know just what you have done.


    But there's more. It was already stated that NO vcr has a switch to output progressive. We also need to know what equipment you are using both the 'vcr' and anything else in the capture path.
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  26. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    Update. I just tried to make a DVD in DVD styler setting the target to interlaced. The result came out wavy, the way a person on LSD might see.
    You resized the interlaced video frame vertically with a non-interlace-aware resizer.
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    Avstosvd much better for this, takes the resizing into account.
    But you do have to tell the program the source is
    interlaced
    If it's not flagged as such
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    MVD4543 Combo VCR/DVD with progressive switch
    Wires
    Roxio VHS to DVD 3

    As for samples. I discovered something.

    The problem occurs when VLC is configured to either AUTO or deinterlace.
    Looking at the VOB, it appears DVD Styler chose bottom field first.
    The source, marked as progressive is interlaced top field first.
    So I changed the SVD Styler setting to Top field first.

    My reasoning is that if DVD Styler interlaced a top field first source as bottom field first it would probably screw it up horribly and VLC wouldn't know what to do.
    So by changing it to top field first, maybe VLC will deinterlace it and he waves will go away.

    Just for kicks, I opened the vob and applied a bottom field first filter and it recreated the waves I saw in VLC.
    This is screen shot just to show what I mean by wavy. Look at the door jam in the left picture.
    Image
    [Attachment 59143 - Click to enlarge]
    Last edited by jpvoodoo; 27th May 2021 at 12:44.
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  29. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Screen shots mean nothing.


    Just post a 10 - 20 second sample of the original avi.


    And that progressive switch is more than likely to be screwing with the VHS capture.
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  30. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    That screenshot doesn't say a whole lot other than that the video was probably butchered by a vertical resize.


    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    MVD4543 Combo VCR/DVD with progressive switch
    In the manual of the unit it says:

    1. Progressive Scan On/Off Switch (DVD ONLY)
    2. S-Video Out Jack (DVD ONLY)
    3. Component Video Out Jacks (Y, Pb/Cb,Pr/Cr) (DVD ONLY)


    So that switch has no effect at all for capturing VHS! (No surprise!)


    Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    Roxio VHS to DVD 3
    Use VirtualDub or AmarecTV instead.
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