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  1. Evidently my attempts at capturing VHS have been poor, see this thread for that revelation https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/401856-So-I-captured-some-PAL-VHS-footage-at-30-fps-and

    I want to get a new device that does a better job, any recommendations?

    I will probably use VirtualDub or AmaRecTV to capture. The device would need to be USB.

    My "ballpark" budget is around 100-150 but I'm flexible, can go higher if need be.
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  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I have replied in the other topic but also read similar posts in this sub-forum all of which are quite recent.
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  3. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I have replied in the other topic but also read similar posts in this sub-forum all of which are quite recent.
    Thank you.
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  4. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I have replied in the other topic but also read similar posts in this sub-forum all of which are quite recent.
    I have some questions about the model you recommended.

    This is the UK one I'm assuming, https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-Live2-Capture-display-record-Laptop/dp/B003Q2ZA36

    It uses MPEG-2, like my current device, how is the MPEG-2 on this better?

    It supports PAL resolution but the specs don't include info on framerates, what framerates does it support and will it do 50i?

    If it does do 50i, would that mean I don't have to deinterlace? Would a 50i file cause issues on modern equipment, YouTube etc?

    The driver you mentioned was available for download, is it for Windows 10? because someone in the QA section said they can't get the drivers to work on Win10. Edit, saw there was a USB-Live 2 driver on their site, grabbed it.

    The US one lists very little specifications, but it does say it captures 30 images a second, obviously no good for my needs, is this ALL it captures at? could be the case if it's for a non PAL region.

    Update, after a bit more research I pulled the trigger on the UK model, will be receiving it tomorrow. I'll try it out and if it gives me issues I can always return it. I'll post again if I have any more questions about it.
    Last edited by Soundguy; 20th May 2021 at 16:50.
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  5. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Forget the default codec ie Mpeg2. What is critical is the DirectShow driver that will allow you to capture lossless beit with Vdub or Amarectv.


    Do recall my 'evaluation' of AmarecTV. This was done with the USB-Live2


    It was answered elsewhere about what is 50i = 50 interlaced fields NOT frames and the 25 fps that will be captured by the device from those fields. So do not confuse 50i with 50 fps two totally different concepts. That being said you can de-interlace your 25 fps capture and result in 50 fps but I take your word that youtube will re-encode that back to 25 fps so little point in doing that.


    I do believe that the driver I can link to if required is for Win10. But you do not have to take my word for it since there are several members who have contributed to the various topics who own the device and are using Win10. For the record, which I have mentioned in some of my replies to these topics, I stayed with Win7. Much more capture-friendly than Win7


    The US one will, naturally, capture 30 fps (29.97 actually) since that is the NTSC standard. But I do not suggest you get that due to the US to UK shipping not he capture qualities as I would still expect through its driver to support 25 fps PAL.


    Now compare this from Amazon.fr


    https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B003Q2ZA36


    with this from Amazon.uk


    https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-Live2-Capture-display-record-Laptop/dp/B003Q2ZA36/ref=pd_...267CEEWFBTJF59


    If that packaging is accurate then I have serious doubts that this is an official Hauppauge device.


    Coming back to youtube and 50i, just remember that is 25 fps interlaced. Here is a clip that I have on very good authority from the uploader that was 25 fps (50i)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F42QsRfSCS4


    He was still learning the ropes back in 2010 and just threw whatever he had at yt. The original mpeg2 has since been re-encoded by yt (maybe more than once)
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  6. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Forget the default codec ie Mpeg2. What is critical is the DirectShow driver that will allow you to capture lossless beit with Vdub or Amarectv.
    Yes, please link me this driver, I just have the default Win10 one from the Hauppauge website


    Do recall my 'evaluation' of AmarecTV. This was done with the USB-Live2
    But you do not have to take my word for it since there are several members who have contributed to the various topics who own the device and are using Win10
    Very reassuring, thanks.

    It was answered elsewhere about what is 50i = 50 interlaced fields NOT frames and the 25 fps that will be captured by the device from those fields. So do not confuse 50i with 50 fps two totally different concepts. That being said you can de-interlace your 25 fps capture and result in 50 fps but I take your word that youtube will re-encode that back to 25 fps so little point in doing that.
    OK, in that other thread people have been recommending that I use 50 fps, as my sample looked smoother at 50 fps on YouTube (I upscaled it to 720 to retain the framerate). YouTube will only allow up to 30 fps for 480. So I might deinterlace and upload an upscaled capture if that's better. In fact one person recommended upscaling to 1080p for less compression artifacts. So with that in mind wouldn't it be better to capture at 50i? That's what I've been told I should do. Or would you recommend just sticking to the 25 fps and upoading "as is"? to avoid extra encoding.

    I used to get black lines on my VHS captures with another device, deinterlacing got rid of them, but didn't change the framerate. I believe it was only capturing half the fields, which caused the lines. Will those black lines be an issue with this device? My current device doesn't have black lines on the capture.

    The US one will, naturally, capture 30 fps (29.97 actually) since that is the NTSC standard. But I do not suggest you get that due to the US to UK shipping not he capture qualities as I would still expect through its driver to support 25 fps PAL.
    Fair enough, won't get it, but just wanted to be sure.


    If that packaging is accurate then I have serious doubts that this is an official Hauppauge device.
    Well I ordered it anyway, will get it tomorrow. If it's a counterfeit, or falsely using the Happauge brand, that's illegal, so I will return the device and report the seller to Amazon. It's more likely just been re-branded from the one you bought years ago, but I'll be wary nevertheless.



    Coming back to youtube and 50i, just remember that is 25 fps interlaced. Here is a clip that I have on very good authority from the uploader that was 25
    It's rough, but actually OK for 240p

    One more question, when watching the 50/25 fps stuff, I should switch my monitor to 50Hz yes?
    Last edited by Soundguy; 20th May 2021 at 19:12.
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  7. Member DB83's Avatar
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    The driver can be found on this page (just scroll down and a click will download xxx.....36075.exe)


    https://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/support/index.html#win10


    I can not test this since I remained on Win7. But in the topics you could ask those who use the device what driver they use for Win10 - I believe the full software download includes a different driver.


    I will be more than interested in knowing what you get from this order.
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  8. The driver which works here under Win10 and AmarecTV is 6.0.119.36075. You may have to run Hauppauge's mpeg2 capture SW once (WinTV or Hauppauge capture) to initialize the driver and make it accessible to your local capture SW.
    Proc amp settings have to be made via GraphStudio though, as has been discussed in other threads.
    Last edited by Sharc; 21st May 2021 at 02:06.
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  9. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    The driver can be found on this page (just scroll down and a click will download xxx.....36075.exe)


    https://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/support/index.html#win10


    I can not test this since I remained on Win7. But in the topics you could ask those who use the device what driver they use for Win10 - I believe the full software download includes a different driver.


    I will be more than interested in knowing what you get from this order.
    That's the driver I have, the one I downloaded yesterday, I mentioned that I got it from the manufactuer's site in the last post, it's the only Win10 driver they offer for that device.

    I'll keep you posted about the order, but would really appreciate answers to the questions I had in the last post.

    One observation about this forum, consider it constructive feedback, as I don't want to sound entitled, or ungrateful, and I appreciate anyone taking time out of their day to help, also it doesn't necessarily apply to you, as you've been one of the most helpful. It is the case though that many questions I ask get ignored, and there's a lot of blinding with science and quibbling over technical terms, that can be overwhelming and draining for a non-expert, especially when the practical things that they really want to know haven't been addressed. A fair amount of cross wiring too, like me telling you that I downloaded the driver from the manufacturer's site, then you linking me to that very same driver, or the guy that went on a diatribe about lossless codecs, when I hadn't actually mentioned anything about them.

    Maybe this forum is geared more towards video professionals, which I'm clearly not, but it's one the first hits I got in a search, and I need expert advice, because as you've seen from that article I linked in the other thread, there's some very bad information on the internet if you attempt independent research. I have taught and designed audio production courses for level 1, 2 & 3 learners in FE colleges, so I have experience dealing with noobs. Just my two-pence, take it or leave it, obviously people here want to help others, or they wouldn't give up their time, I'm just offering feedback to help facilitate that, so please don't take it the wrong way.

    Anyway, I'll sum up the questions again, most of them are just simple yes or no:

    If the device offers 50i, should I use that and upscale the video, to retain the framerate on YouTube?

    If it only does interlaced 25 fps, should I deinterlace and upscale as above? or best to leave as is?

    The horizontal black lines I've got on other devices, interlacing artifacts, whatever they are, will they be an issue on this device?

    When I watch my 25/50 fps videos, should I switch my monitor to 50Hz for a better experience?

    I'll throw in a bonus question, lossless video, big files presumably, roughly how many GB an hour?
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  10. Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    The driver which works here under Win10 and AmarecTV is 6.0.119.36075. You may have to run Hauppauge's mpeg2 capture SW once (WinTV or Hauppauge capture) to initialize the driver and make it accessible to your local capture SW.
    Proc amp settings have to be made via GraphStudio though, as has been discussed in other threads.
    I have no idea what Proc amp is, so can I just safely ignore that?
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  11. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Very few of us around here are video pro's. Even those you know a heck of a lot more than I do are not while some have worked in the industry.


    To clarify the point about the driver, read this on one of the support pages:


    https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support/support.html


    The inference, in my eyes was that there is another driver. But I could be wrong on that one.


    I'll offer my two cents on your other questions although I thought that some had already been answered.


    1. 50i is really another way of writing 25 fps interlaced. You capture VHS as interlaced and at the native speed depending on the source. So, technically speaking, the device will support 50i. What you probably meant to say was 50 fps and for the reason just stated that is not appropriate. The matter of 'i' and 'p' got more complicated when digital came around. Now one reads 576i/p, or 720i/p etc. Analogue video capture does indeed create digital files so your 50i source creates a 576i video. Now I bet you are sorry you asked that one


    2. (and 3.) One of the main, IMO, reasons to deinterlace is to crop your captured video (remove borders that hold no actual information and or the scan lines you see at the bottom of the picture) and/or resize your video. Crop and resize on an interlaced source without deinterlace first results in visual artifacts on your video at playback. From the yt perspective you require to upload a higher resolution video so that the encode that they do will give it sufficient bit rate and not degrade/resize it more. So your resize must be at least 720 pixels high (720p)


    4. All interlaced video has 'lines' which are removed on playback either automatically on a modern tv or by selecting a deinterlacer in a PC player such as vlc. I would not call these artifacts since they are part of the natural process. Real artifacts occur when you do not follow the deinterlace/resize protocol described above.


    5. Why ?. Do you watch Pal dvds on a 50 MHz display ? But some may differ and that really is a Q. if you are unhappy with the answer for another topic.


    Bonus. Lossless video is appr 30 gb per hour. You are only doing it to make the deinterlace/resize more efficient. You create a delivery format eg AVC.mp4 from that for uploading which will itself be higher quality than a direct mpg upload (and a smaller file size)


    PS. A proc amp is where you alter colour, brightness, hue etc at the point of capture rather than post capture.


    If I missed anything by all means come back to me. Others may interject although these Q.'s are easier found in specific topics rather than this general one.
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  12. The device is here, it's the orange packaging shown on the Fr Amazon, so no worries about it being a knock-off.

    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Now I bet you are sorry you asked that one
    No, you cleared up some confusion, because some people are saying I should do it in 50i others 25 fps, still a bit foggy to me, but it makes more sense now.

    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    (and 3.) One of the main, IMO, reasons to deinterlace is to crop your captured video (remove borders that hold no actual information and or the scan lines you see at the bottom of the picture) and/or resize your video. Crop and resize on an interlaced source without deinterlace first results in visual artifacts on your video at playback. From the yt perspective you require to upload a higher resolution video so that the encode that they do will give it sufficient bit rate and not degrade/resize it more. So your resize must be at least 720 pixels high (720p)
    I've always avoided cropping, but I have been told of it's benefits, might start doing it. As well as removing redundant information apparently it makes for a better encode on YouTube, because the encoder doesn't have to deal with that redundant info anymore and can focus on the important stuff. I just didn't want to mess with it too much in case I made it worse or did something wrong, plus it was more encoding.

    One of the reasons for upscaling was to keep a 50 fps framerate too, which you said the files will end up if I deinterlace.

    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    All interlaced video has 'lines' which are removed on playback either automatically on a modern tv or by selecting a deinterlacer in a PC player such as vlc. I would not call these artifacts since they are part of the natural process. Real artifacts occur when you do not follow the deinterlace/resize protocol described above.
    The problem is they don't get removed on YouTube, so I have to remove them before I upload. That's one of the things I liked about the Hanestech device, it removed them at source, despite the bad capture quality. Now I have the Happauge they're back again, I used to use FCP to remove them with a deinterlace plug-in, what would be a good Windows solution? How would you do about removing them? I'm thinking Avidemux at the moment.

    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    5. Why ?. Do you watch Pal dvds on a 50 MHz display ? But some may differ and that really is a Q. if you are unhappy with the answer for another topic.
    I'm just assuming that a 60Hz display would cause stuttering if the source was 50/25 fps, because the two are out of sync. I'm noticing a stutter in horizontal movement in gameplay captures, if the screen refresh rate and video fps aren't matched, but this may be placebo or caused by something else. I'm not a big DVD watcher but I'm also assuming that yes, you would watch PAL DVDs at 50 HZ.


    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Lossless video is appr 30 gb per hour. You are only doing it to make the deinterlace/resize more efficient. You create a delivery format eg AVC.mp4 from that for uploading which will itself be higher quality than a direct mpg upload (and a smaller file size)
    Phew! That's huge, much too big for archiving. But I guess I can delete the raw capture once I've generated the delivery file. If I need to encode I normally use H264 in an MKV wrapper, is that a good idea? or would you use something else?

    Anyway back to the device, teething problems aplenty unfortunately. The picture has good definition, but has nasty wave like interference and a portion of green at the bottom. What's causing that and how to fix? Sample included, recorded in AmarecTV, VirtualDub gave same results.
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  13. Member DB83's Avatar
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    The dreaded return of the green band. Firstly take a look at this recent topic:


    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/401800-Problem-with-Hauppage-USB-Live2-Green-Band


    Now the OP has different aims than you inasmuch he was using the USB-Live to capture a NTSC source on Pal equipment. So the band kinda represents 96 lines of non-existant video being the difference between Pal 576i and NTSC 480i


    Now you will immediately shout that my source is Pal but the driver and unit may think your source is NTSC.


    So my immediate suggestion is that even just for one occasion install WinTV and see if that removes the green band - you will be asked for your analogue source ie Pal on install.


    Then also check that the hauppauge driver really is being used by confirming what device is being recognised by both vdub and Amarec - you should see cx23100


    BTW I am relieved to read that the packing received did not match what was shown by Amazon. However for many that would invoke a return for somewhat obvious reasons.
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  14. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Uncompressed video is bigger than that:

    SD PAL size = 720x576 @ 25FPS
    At 24bit (3colors x 8bits) RGB, that is 248832000 b/sec or 248Mbps or 111.97 GBytes/Hour (not counting audio or overhead)
    At 12bit YUV (common 4:2:0 subsampling), that is 1/2 of that or 56 GBytes/Hour. Lossless-compressed at half again of that is the 30GBytes/Hour that DB83 is talking about.
    HD and UHD/4k would be much bigger still.

    That is why very few folks actually record, capture or archive in that format.
    Common compression like AVC in MP4 compresses that down to ~1/100th of the size with modest loss in quality.
    Most MPEG2 capture ranges are on the lower end in between, at 10-25Mbps, and DV is 25.


    Scott
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  15. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    The dreaded return of the green band. Firstly take a look at this recent topic:


    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/401800-Problem-with-Hauppage-USB-Live2-Green-Band


    Now the OP has different aims than you inasmuch he was using the USB-Live to capture a NTSC source on Pal equipment. So the band kinda represents 96 lines of non-existant video being the difference between Pal 576i and NTSC 480i


    Now you will immediately shout that my source is Pal but the driver and unit may think your source is NTSC.


    So my immediate suggestion is that even just for one occasion install WinTV and see if that removes the green band - you will be asked for your analogue source ie Pal on install.


    Then also check that the hauppauge driver really is being used by confirming what device is being recognised by both vdub and Amarec - you should see cx23100


    BTW I am relieved to read that the packing received did not match what was shown by Amazon. However for many that would invoke a return for somewhat obvious reasons.
    Thanks, that fixed the green band, but it was the Happauge capture software I installed just before you replied that must have fixed it. So the problem now, that nasty wavy interference, that's obviously not acceptable and wasn't present in the recordings I made with the other device. What is it and how to stop it? I've included a new sample.

    Also if the lossless captures are 100gb an hour, like what Cornucopia said, that's impractical, as I'd have to have about 300 gb free constantly just for breathing space, not to mention the amount of time it must take to encode files that size.
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    Scott was referring to fully uncompressed video.


    As to the 'wavy' lines. Do you mean the red band top right or generally through the video. The former is prossibly dot-crawl and the latter general interlacing inheritance or, as you put it, artefacts. You may not have preciously seen it if your device had an adequate comb filter


    I would suggest you search through the forum for topics on dot-crawl or better still start a new topic "What is this artefact and how do I fix it" with this sample as your prime 'witness'. But it could well take avisynth and a decomb filter to remove it. Not my, as one would hear from the days when 'Woolies' had real people serving you, counter.
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  17. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Ps. Yes. The Hauppauge s/w initialised the driver (Recall what Sharc wrote earlier) but do confirm that all is now well in vdub and AmarecTv
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  18. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Ps. Yes. The Hauppauge s/w initialised the driver (Recall what Sharc wrote earlier) but do confirm that all is now well in vdub and AmarecTv
    Only AmarecTV, for some reason VirtualDub doesn't like this device, the green band is gone, but it won't display a signal if I select the Direct show driver, there's another driver I can choose, a Win32 but it's only displaying a 12 fps signal.
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    For vdub do check that 'Capture Filter' >> 'Video Decoder' is set to Pal and Video Source has not inadvertingly changed.
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  20. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Scott was referring to fully uncompressed video.


    As to the 'wavy' lines. Do you mean the red band top right or generally through the video. The former is prossibly dot-crawl and the latter general interlacing inheritance or, as you put it, artefacts. You may not have preciously seen it if your device had an adequate comb filter


    I would suggest you search through the forum for topics on dot-crawl or better still start a new topic "What is this artefact and how do I fix it" with this sample as your prime 'witness'. But it could well take avisynth and a decomb filter to remove it. Not my, as one would hear from the days when 'Woolies' had real people serving you, counter.
    The red band top right? There's a health bar if that's what you meant (a gaming thing, you said you didn't game, so just clarifying that). But yes the ones all the way through the video.

    Well that's bad, never seen it before and it looks awful, too awful for a device to leave in and expect users to remove themselves tbh, so I'm suspecting it might be something else. I noticed wobbling the scart connection removed them for a split second, so I'm wondering if it's related to that, the device might even be faulty. I'll make the post anyway because I can't accept that, real shame as everything else seems OK.
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  21. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    For vdub do check that 'Capture Filter' >> 'Video Decoder' is set to Pal and Video Source has not inadvertingly changed.
    Thanks, did that, no change.
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  22. Member DB83's Avatar
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    You got me thinking. Check out this sample from a commercial tape - the one I did for the evaluation post (just trimmed it for length)


    I seem to recall other tapes having issues but they could be cleaned up by filtering the signal.


    But since your sample was mpeg2 and mine is Lagarith do also confirm that the issue remains after capturing in AmarecTV (for the interim while the vdub issue is resolved)
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  23. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    You got me thinking. Check out this sample from a commercial tape - the one I did for the evaluation post (just trimmed it for length)


    I seem to recall other tapes having issues but they could be cleaned up by filtering the signal.


    But since your sample was mpeg2 and mine is Lagarith do also confirm that the issue remains after capturing in AmarecTV (for the interim while the vdub issue is resolved)
    Sample looks fine to me, bit grainy but that's to be expected with VHS. Also your horizontal lines seem much less apparent then what I get, makes me think there's something else I'm doing wrong, but that could just be placebo.

    I'm not quite sure what else I'm supposed to be looking for? but you don't have those nasty dot / wave patterns that I do.
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  24. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I will be turning in now but, all being well, we can continue this over the weekend.


    May I ask that, as before, you screen-cap each main menu page, device and settings, and each selection from the menu.


    This has to be something silly since others are not having such an issue.
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  25. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I will be turning in now but, all being well, we can continue this over the weekend.


    May I ask that, as before, you screen-cap each main menu page, device and settings, and each selection from the menu.


    This has to be something silly since others are not having such an issue.
    Jeez it's Friday! These technical problems have been so draining for me the last few days, I don't even know what day of the week it is, but yes would love to continue because resolving this means a lot to me, it's actually been affecting my mental health because I've spent so much time on these tapes already, but I do want them to be good, or at least as good as I can get them to be. Thanks.
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    Soundguy, the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 has a poor comb filter. You should capture through its S-Video input, hoping your VCR has such output.
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  27. Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    Soundguy, the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 has a poor comb filter. You should capture through its S-Video input, hoping your VCR has such output.
    Is that what's causing the bleed?

    If so then "poor" is an understatement, I think "unacceptable" would be a better fit. Nope, no S-Video, should I return this device?
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  28. Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    Soundguy, the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 has a poor comb filter. You should capture through its S-Video input, hoping your VCR has such output.
    Is that what's causing the bleed?

    If so then "poor" is an understatement, I think "unacceptable" would be a better fit. Nope, no S-Video, should I return this device?
    Sorry I thought this was the other thread, see this https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/401909-New-device-getting-strange-wavy-dot-like-pa...re#post2620405 Jagabo diagnosed the problem, but I'm waiting for him to respond because I don't know how to fix it my end.
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    Nope, no S-Video, should I return this device?
    That will be your decision.

    I love the Hauppauge USB-Live 2, but the device is not adequate for capturing from composite signal (and directly from a VRC without line TBC)

    Not easy to find an appropriate device with excellent quality at small price for your case.
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  30. Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    Nope, no S-Video, should I return this device?
    That will be your decision.

    I love the Hauppauge USB-Live 2, but the device is not adequate for capturing from composite signal (and directly from a VRC without line TBC)

    Not easy to find an appropriate device with excellent quality for your case.

    Is the comb filter responsible for that bleed that Jagabo diagnosed? Because if not, and I can fix the bleed, then I'm happy with the quality, don't need it to be excellent.
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