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    Hello all,

    Recently purchased a Hauppage USB-Live2 to transfer Video8 tapes from a Sony Handycam DCR-TRV330E to a PC.

    The software provided with the USB-Live2 is "Hauppage Capture" and "WinTV v10."

    When the USB device is connected to a PC, in "WinTV v10" there is a green band at the bottom of the screen which remains no matter what configuration in the software, in the camcorder, or how camcorder is connected (composite or S-video).

    In fact, the green band is there even when the AVC jack is not plugged into the camcorder. (image below)

    Image
    [Attachment 58839 - Click to enlarge]


    In composite mode, (image below) the tapes play back nicely, but always with the green band at bottom. (In s-video, same green band but playback B&W only. Why? I don't know.)
    It does not feel like the video is "squashed" or cropped because of the green band, though the image (non-green) segment of the frame is not 4:3, as you can see.

    Image
    [Attachment 58841 - Click to enlarge]



    With "Hauppage Capture" software, OTOH, there is no green band. However, the tapes play in B&W only, no matter what settings or type of connection (composite, or S-video).

    Possibly a driver issue?

    Would appreciate any help on this. Thank you.
    Last edited by Rahneshin; 13th May 2021 at 06:25.
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  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    In the second sample you have selected PAL60 (NTSC tape played on a PAL device). If your source is not NTSC the squashing is explained by a display of 480 lines instead of 576.


    That could also explain the first sample. Check that you have not selected NTSC rather than PAL.
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    Hello DB83,

    Thanks for your reply.

    The source is a Sony Video8 NTSC tape played in a Sony PAL camcorder which has an "NTSC PB" setting of either PAL or NTSC 4.43.


    Image
    [Attachment 58848 - Click to enlarge]



    In the sample in the previous post, I chose PAL for the camcorder NTSC PB, with WinTV set at PAL60 for the capture setting. I also tried WinTV capture settings PAL, NTSC, NTSC 4.43. They all playback fine, (odd, no?) except for the green band always being there.

    I also tried "NTSC PB" -> NTSC 4.43 camcorder setting and then WinTV capture NTSC 4.43, NTSC, PAL, PAL60 settings. Again, they all playback fine, but always with the same green band.

    In fact, in WinTV, the green band is there even when the AVC jack is not plugged into the camcorder!

    With the "Hauppage Capture" software, there is no green band, but it will not capture in color, no matter the camera nor software settings. It is rather worse than WinTV.

    Also tried VirtualDub2 and had same green band problem but with otherwise good video capture, just as with WinTV.

    Cannot figure it out.
    Last edited by Rahneshin; 13th May 2021 at 07:35.
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  4. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I believe I contributed to an earlier topic since that screen shot is familiar. Two issues.


    1. Do ensure that you are using the Hauppauge driver and not something that Ms want you to use.
    2. (More pertinent). The Usb Live does support Pal 60 but NTSC 4.43 is NOT, despite what you may have been told, Pal 60. If you have a NTSC tape you need to set the camera to 'ON PAL TV' and not NTSC 4.43


    Hauppauge Capture only supports pure PAL and pure NTSC aka NTSC 3.58. So no NTSC over PAL there.


    I think there is a PAL 60 option in VirtualDub but, again, the driver must be correct and the camera output.
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    Thanks for your reply.

    I reinstalled the USB-Live2 with drivers from Hauppage, reinstalled WinTV v10 as well. The camera is set to "ON PAL TV" and WinTV is set to receive PAL and PAL60 signals on different channels. None of it makes any difference. Green band persists in all channels.

    In fact, the green band persists even when the A/V input cable is not plugged into the USB-Live2 and I run WinTVv10.

    Yes, you directed me to the USB-Live2 because of the NTSC Video8 tapes/PAL camcorder problem I have. I originally tried to use the camera's DV out cable but firewire card installed in PC was not recognised by Windows 10, even with legacy controllers, etc.
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    I feel a little responsibility for directing you to the Hauppauge device since I do own one and it is, for me, quite ok for PAL60.


    Yet my gut feeling is that the green bar is a NTSC artefact when displaying on a PAL capture without the benefit of PAL60. That suggests either a driver issue or, hopefully not, a camera fault. For the driver, if memory serves, there are two on the Hauppauge support page so I also ask you to check that you did get the right one.


    What I need to do now is run some tests of my own with my usb-live and WinTV (only v7 here) and Windows7 to see if I can replicate this. Unfortunately, I have other plans for this evening so it may not be until tomorrow when I can report back.


    Re-reading the other topic and I note that you do have access to a Win7 laptop. Can I ask you to try that laptop to see if it makes any difference.
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    I think I might have replicated your issue. Depending on the source I selected, I could get a green band or even a blue one. Sometimes it only appeared briefly.


    The first thing I would now try is to scroll though the sources with the up/down arrows. My suspicion is that the first one is actually a NTSC feed. There should be one for a PAL feed. But I am concerned since I do not see the arrows in the second picture - the PAL60 one.


    I also looked at the Hauppauge support page and I now see another potential red flag. The usb-live2 is only shown as a North American product whereas when I and others here acquired it there was European support. It would be crazy in the extreme if it no longer had PAL support although you pic shows there is still PAL60. So I hope you can scroll though the options.


    But do check the available channels from the setup wheel that none are de-selected. If you need screencaps I will oblige.
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    EDIT: Below is in reply to your previous post and not your latest.

    Thanks for your reply.

    Happy to report that the green band problem's been solved.

    When WinTVv10 is installed for the first time, a dialog box asks which standard to use, NTSC, PAL, or SECAM, as it knows I'm in France. I previously chose PAL, because of the "NTSC PB"->"ON PAL TV" setting in the camcorder. This was the mistake.

    After reinstalling WinTV ticking the NTSC option, the dreaded green band was gone. This was the case even with "NTSC PB"->"ON PAL TV" in the camcorder. "NTSC PB"->"NTSC 4.43" worked just as well.

    No doubt this is all because the tapes are in NTSC. So, your gut feeling was right.

    In WinTV, I then tuned channels to both NTSC and NTSC 4.43 and they display equally well (as far as I can discern). Suspect if I were to tune a couple more channels to PAL and PAL60, they would also be as the NTSCs (maybe even better?).

    S-video mode still stubbornly only displays in B&W, though of course no green band as before.

    Very much appreciate your willingness to look into the problem further for my sake, in any case.

    As to USB-Live2, without your help it would've been difficult and lengthy for me to figure out that that was what I needed, given the NTSC-tapes-in-a-PAL-camcorder conundrum. So, your direction is appreciated and the device appears to be a decent piece of kit.

    Only question now is capturing in the best quality possible, which I assume is lossless. However, have not been able to figure out how to install huffyuv and/or lagarith and use them in WinTV (or another capture program).

    Cheers, and again much appreciate your help.
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  9. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Well it goes without saying that I am somewhat relieved to read that you now have a clear screen in the WinTV program. I was really scratching my skull as to why this was happening.


    Now did you not say that the band was also present in vdub. Have you tried that since ? WinTV is fine if you only want to capture as mpeg2 but lossless is infinitely better for the initial capture. To use huffyuv or lagarith in virtual dub you select the codec (installed) from the video >> compression menu. Also make sure you have selected the correct device etc. and not just a 'Windows Camera' or something similar.
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    Thanks. If you're relieved, imagine how I must feel!

    WinTV captures the files in a .ts format. Is this equivalent to lossless?

    VirtualDub2 doesn't show the green band, but behaves rather oddly.

    In capture mode, only if I set "device" to "Hauppage" and audio device to generic "capture device" do I get image and sound. However, if I set audio device to "Hauppage" then I lose image, unless I switch video device to "Microsoft WDM Image Capture." I cannot set both video and audio to Hauppage without losing either sound or video.

    I captured video anyway with video device -> "hauppage", audio device -> "capture device", but the sound got out of sync rather quickly and the images also started to freeze and jump very soon. Eventually the audio started to have a high-pitched compressed sound, like from a helium balloon, and the images very jumpy. A real mess.

    I tried with both lagarith and huffyuv codecs and the result was the same.

    If you'll tell me the .ts format which WinTV uses is lossless or nearly as good, I will go with that because there were no issues there.

    Cheers.

    Image
    [Attachment 58863 - Click to enlarge]


    Image
    [Attachment 58864 - Click to enlarge]
    Last edited by Rahneshin; 14th May 2021 at 05:37.
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    If you'll tell me the .ts format which WinTV uses is lossless or nearly as good
    I don't think he will...
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  12. Member DB83's Avatar
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    He will. In fact he eluded to the answer earlier.


    Unless. WinTV has changed, your .ts file is mpeg2 wrapped in a transport stream (.ts) container. There should be an option to 'convert' the .ts video to plain .mpg at the end of the capture process which will be easier to edit.


    Mpeg2 is NOT lossless. It is described as a lossy format which means that when you edit and save to any other format/codec even mpeg2 there is a loss of quality since information is thrown away in the process. Visually it may look fine for you but there is real loss.


    A lossless codec such as huffyuv or lagaarith (there are others as well) retains all the real quality on editing and saving in the same codec. This is best described as an archive format where you want to retain the original or edited original for future work on it. The downside as you will have noticed is file size. If memory serves, WinTV captures at 6 mbps which roughly gives you 90 mins per 4 gb. That same 90 mins in a lossless codec will be >> 40 gb.


    From the lossless 'master' you convert/export to a delivery format ie something to normally view or share. In fact that .mpg is already a delivery format although there are more efficient codecs available now and make smaller files again without visual loss of quality.


    The bottom line is what you want to do with your captures and how satisfied you are with the visual results. We can all preach but ultimately it is your call.
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    If you'll tell me the .ts format which WinTV uses is lossless or nearly as good
    I don't think he will...
    Noooooooooooooo!
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    Thanks for the reply, DB83.

    Of course I'd like highest quality capture to keep as a 'master' for then editing and converting later in a delivery format. However, as mentioned, VirtualDub2 doesn't let me set both video and audio devices to "Hauppage", only one or the other. And when I did do a capture using Hauppage as video device and generic "device" for audio, the result was not good. Out of sync sound very quickly (which then turned high pitch, like a cartoon) and freeze/jump video as well.

    I noticed the much larger avi file sizes, but that's for me a minor issue compared to the problems described above.

    Cheers.
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    May I suggest you try the original virtualdub. Now Win10 is a strange beast but in Win7 there are no such issues that you describe and with the original vdub. One selection for video and audio (the default audio is the capture device)
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    Have a crack at capturing with AmarecTV. Others have said it records in-sync where VDub wouldn't. Note the first Amarectv comment in the reviews.

    Re VDub, Lordsmurf says VDub 1.9.11 is the best one to use.

    I think that VDub is preferable, if you can get it going, because you can use the histogram for setting brightness and contrast levels (depends on the Hauppauge driver though).
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    May I suggest you try the original virtualdub. Now Win10 is a strange beast but in Win7 there are no such issues that you describe and with the original vdub. One selection for video and audio (the default audio is the capture device)
    Thanks.

    The sync and jumpy video problems in vdub2 seem to have been resolved by setting "NTSC PB" in the camcorder to "NTSC 4.43". Had it on PAL before.

    The issue now more appears to be a fair amount of interlace lines(?) (capture below) visible in any panning movements in the video. Those are eliminated when the avi is played in VLC media player with "deinterlace" on, but not when an mpeg4 version of the same is played in Windows 10 media player.

    There must be a way to eliminate this at the source in vdub capture mode but there is nothing obvious which I can see, except maybe for "noise reduction" or "vertical reduction" in video settings? If not, there must also be a way in avidemux when transferring to a delivery format, though I didn't see anything obvious.

    I am, of course, keen not to do anything which will downgrade the lossless quality of the original avi capture.

    Cheers.

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    [Attachment 58869 - Click to enlarge]
    Last edited by Rahneshin; 14th May 2021 at 08:19.
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Have a crack at capturing with AmarecTV. Others have said it records in-sync where VDub wouldn't. Note the first Amarectv comment in the reviews.

    Re VDub, Lordsmurf says VDub 1.9.11 is the best one to use.

    I think that VDub is preferable, if you can get it going, because you can use the histogram for setting brightness and contrast levels (depends on the Hauppauge driver though).
    Thanks.

    I'm going to have a look at AmarecTV as well for the sync reasons others have mentioned (although at the moment that issue seems to be resolved for me in vdub2), but if I recall correctly, there are no lossless codecs within AmarecTV and you have to install them manually which I couldn't figure out how to do with lagarith or huffyuv. (yes, I am a noob, here).

    Will also try VDub 1.9.11

    Much appreciate it.

    Cheers.
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  19. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Of course that NTSC 4.43 capture in vdub is not natural. In fact it is like the original ones you did with the green bar but now the green bar is missing.


    Vdub does not support NTSC 4.43 - few capture programs do. The interference you see could well be the timing difference between 3.58 and 4.33


    Before dinner(yeah I like mine at 'lunch time' ) I did a quick PAL60 preview in vdub and the green bar was there. It was also there if I attempted to capture at NTSC source.


    There is other capture software you can try. Even less 'Elegant' than vdub is DScaler. Fully compliant with the USB-Live (Well it is under Win7)
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  20. Member DB83's Avatar
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    BTW Did you buy the Hauppauge from Amazon ?


    If so I would appreciate a link since I am also contributing to another topic about the Hauppauge and the OP is from Spain. I did find one but the price was much less than I would have expected it to be - much less even when I bought mine many moons ago.
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    Lagarith setup file:

    https://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html

    Huffyuv (bit of a fiddle but you'll get there):

    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-conversion/2193-cannot-install-huffyuv.html#post11627

    Another Huff link here with instructions in the comments (make sure you put in the correct Huff folder location)

    https://www.videohelp.com/software/HuffYUV


    I use Lagarith as it's file sizes are a bit smaller than Huff. Still 30gb per hour for 720x576 25FPS. I think at the time it was easier to install!
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    DB83, DScaler won't run in Win 10 20H2; crashes a few seconds after startup.

    I tried as Admin and in Win 7 and Win XP SP3 compatibility.
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    DB83, DScaler won't run in Win 10 20H2; crashes a few seconds after startup.

    I tried as Admin and in Win 7 and Win XP SP3 compatibility.

    Oh shucks !!!
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    Hello DB83,

    So, spent way too much time trying to make things work in vdub but to no avail. No matter the settings in "timing" and in lagarith (multithreading option, and null frame option), either the video or the audio would go badly out of sync, often hilariously so.

    Then finally pulled my head out and tried AmarecTV. Works like a charm.

    Only real issue now is fairly heavy interlacing in the avi files. Tried using different deinterlace settings in amarec, but they make no visible difference. Even disabling deinterlacing gives the same result.

    Of course, am able to deinterlace in VLC player and record from it. Avidemux has a similar function though seemingly less effective.

    Perhaps this is the better way to go: let the editing program/s deal with deinterlacing rather than the capture software?

    Have same question with cropping: better to do in capture software, or in editing software?

    Am kind of leaning towards letting editing programs do both, but that's just a feeling.

    Cheers.

    PS If you call lunch 'dinner' then you must be from the Midlands. Know a guy from Coventry who does the same.
    Last edited by Rahneshin; 16th May 2021 at 07:33.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    BTW Did you buy the Hauppauge from Amazon ?


    If so I would appreciate a link since I am also contributing to another topic about the Hauppauge and the OP is from Spain. I did find one but the price was much less than I would have expected it to be - much less even when I bought mine many moons ago.
    Yes, from Amazon, but in France. Price is 50 euros.

    https://www.amazon.fr/Hauppauge-Live-2-Carte-dacquisition-num%C3%A9rique/dp/B003Q2ZA36...1159006&sr=8-1
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Lagarith setup file:

    https://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html

    Huffyuv (bit of a fiddle but you'll get there):

    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-conversion/2193-cannot-install-huffyuv.html#post11627

    Another Huff link here with instructions in the comments (make sure you put in the correct Huff folder location)

    https://www.videohelp.com/software/HuffYUV


    I use Lagarith as it's file sizes are a bit smaller than Huff. Still 30gb per hour for 720x576 25FPS. I think at the time it was easier to install!
    Thanks for these.

    Tried Huffy but found it unworkable. Couldn't play back avi files in VLC player and other media. Like you, prefer Lagarith in the end as it's easier to install and more compatible with other players. If it makes smaller files, then even better!

    PS, do you enable 'null frames' in and 'multithreading' in Lagarith? I have an i5 system so guessing "yes" for the multithreading. But about null frames am unsure. Am using Amarec for capturing.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Rahneshin; 16th May 2021 at 06:27.
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    [QUOTE=Rahneshin;2619681]
    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    BTW Did you buy the Hauppauge from Amazon ?


    If so I would appreciate a link since I am also contributing to another topic about the Hauppauge and the OP is from Spain. I did find one but the price was much less than I would have expected it to be - much less even when I bought mine many moons ago.
    Yes, from Amazon, but in France. Price is 50 euros.

    https://www.amazon.fr/Hauppauge-Live-2-Carte-dacquisition-num%C3%A9rique/dp/B003Q2ZA36...8-1[/QUOTE]


    Thanks. I did find this listing but I wanted to be sure since I also found a listing on Amazon's Spanish site and that, despite it's claims, does not appears to be a USB-Live2 at all.
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    Originally Posted by Rahneshin
    PS, do you enable 'null frames' in and 'multithreading' in Lagarith?
    I have "Null frames" unticked and multithreading ticked. I also have an i5. Oldie but a goodie.
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    Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Originally Posted by Rahneshin
    PS, do you enable 'null frames' in and 'multithreading' in Lagarith?
    I have "Null frames" unticked and multithreading ticked. I also have an i5. Oldie but a goodie.
    Cheers.

    Also, do you do deinterlacing and cropping in capture software or afterwards in editing software?

    A goodie for sure, but an upgrade would be nice. My i5 is from 2014!
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    One should NEVER deinterlace and crop during the capture process. These are for post-capture.


    BTW To answer your other Q. I am not from the Midlands (or even close - although the rumour goes that we still supply their water )


    Born and still resident in 'Old South Wales'. The term 'lunch' typically refers to a meal taken on or around 12 pm whereas 'dinner' is typically on or after 6 pm. (unless you are in Spain and I know from experience that you can not get 'dinner', in Madrid at least, before 9 )


    And do not worry about your CPU. Post-capture proceedures will just take a little longer. In fact your CPU blows mine out of the water.
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