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  1. Member
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    Hello all,

    Have bought Sony DCR-TRV 330E camcorder to transfer old Sony Video8 tapes to PC.

    Installed PCI E ieee1394 card to connect camcorder via "i.link" to computer. However, camera is not visible to computer nor to video capture software, ScenalyserLive, WinDV 123, VirtualDub.

    Settings in camcorder are at A/V->DV out "ON"; playback in NTSC mode.

    Any help would be much appreciated.
    Last edited by Rahneshin; 6th May 2021 at 09:17.
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  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Is the card visible to Windows 10 Device Manager ?


    But why NTSC mode ? France was a Secam country but I would have thought that PAL would have been more appropriate.
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    Hi,

    Thanks for the reply. Where would I look for the card in device manager? Under "System devices"?

    Thanks.
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  4. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Start with ieee 1394 bus host controllers.
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    Thanks.

    I see no such thing in device manager. Under "System Devices" I see "PCI Express Root Port" 3 times (the PC has 3 PCI E slots) but no mention of ieee 1394, even though the card is installed in one of them. The card came with no drivers.

    Perhaps the slots need enabling in the BIOS?

    Cheers.
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  6. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Try imaging devices - the first probably was for firewire on the mainboard rather than a card.


    I would also do a forum search for Device Manager reports for firewire cards. There are several quite recent topics.The ones you refer to are not appropriate.


    But there are also reports of Windows 10 killing firewire connections in updates. You might have to install a Windows 8 legacy controller driver.


    Still have not answered the NTSC question though.
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  7. Member
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    Originally Posted by Rahneshin View Post
    Hello all,

    Have bought Sony DCR-TRV 330E camcorder to transfer old Sony Video8 tapes to PC.

    Installed PCI E ieee1394 card to connect camcorder via "i.link" to computer. However, camera is not visible to computer nor to video capture software, ScenalyserLive, WinDV 123, VirtualDub.

    Settings in camcorder are at A/V->DV out "ON"; playback in NTSC mode.

    Any help would be much appreciated.
    did the PCI E ieee1394 card come with an install CD ??
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  8. Member DB83's Avatar
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    ^^ These cards do not come with drivers. They tend to rely on direct Windows support.
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    DB83,

    Thanks.

    I see no "imaging devices" anywhere in device manager.

    Have checked some of the threads in the forum on this issue. Found good article about this problem and how to solve it using the Microsoft Firewire 1394 OHCI Legacy Driver. https://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/Firewire-1.htm

    Unfortunately, everything I tried as instructed in the article didn't make the PC recognise the card. It could be the card is defective. I will install it in the PCI slot as a last measure, just to see.

    After that, not sure what's left to do. (I don't honestly believe the card is defective.)

    The card was installed today, after the latest Windows 10 updates were installed yesterday.

    On the NTSC question, in the menu of the camera there is an "NTSC PB" heading which gives a choice of setting either to "ON PAL TV" or "NTSC 4.43" The camera is set to the "ON PAL TV" setting. I think this is the default setting.

    The camera is a PAL one bought second hand here recently. My Video8 tapes were made in a Handycam bought in the USA in 1990.

    Hope this helps to clarify. Unfortunately, I doubt this is the source of the problem here.

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    Last edited by Rahneshin; 6th May 2021 at 14:28.
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  10. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I also doubt that is the issue but even if and when you get the card to work you will come across the following.


    Playback of NTSC tapes (which you have) on a PAL player/camera (which you have) is an analog feature. I may be wrong with this and a user manual might confirm but NTSC playback is not supported for DV playback - it certainly does not work with my Canopus ADVC which expects either a pure NTSC or pure PAL source.



    And NTSC 4.43 is also not a pure NTSC system

    Now you can still use the camera but will have to transfer the video in analog/composite mode with a capture device that supports PAL60 such as a Hauppauge USB-Live2.
    Last edited by DB83; 6th May 2021 at 14:33. Reason: addit.info
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    Many thanks for the heads up on this issue.

    Given it's unlikely I'll be able to solve the card issue, I will return it to amazon and go for the Hauppage device you mention. It's pricier than the best selling one on amazon here (the August VGB-100) but I know Hauppage from living in the UK as a good brand. The other one feels a bit dodgy even though it has many positive reviews. It also makes no mention of PAL60 support though claims to support NTSC.

    I was going to go for composite at first, but thought the DV out to PC would give a far superior image quality. Is this in fact true? How does s-video fare in comparison?

    Thanks again for the help.
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  12. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Well firewire card allowing, DV will be better than mpeg2 but the Hauppauge will permit you to capture lossless which is even better than DV


    Less complicated too had you obtained a NTSC camcorder rather than a PAL one. But NTSC DV is also poorer than PAL DV so you are in a no win situation there.
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    If you are capturing your NTSC 3.58 MHz tapes to PAL60 (a.k.a NTSC 4.43 MHz) you are in for trouble. Get a NTSC camcorder for NTSC tapes.
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    Thanks.

    For lossless capture, s-video link is needed, correct?

    I'm familiar with shooting with digital still cameras in RAW (lossless, in a sense), processing in photoshop, and then finally saving in jpeg. Is there an equivalent process with lossless video capture?

    Admit I didn't think to look for a used NTSC camcorder, though they must be very rare around here. Also assumed the Video8 format was universal, unlike VHS.
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    dellsam,

    The tapes are Sony Video8 made on a Sony Handycam. Do the different standards really matter in the Video8 format?

    Edit: Looking at the Video8 cassette itself, nowhere on it does it mention the standard.
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  16. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Not correct. Better than composite but it depends on the connections on the camera.


    The term 'lossless' just refers to the codec you will use for the capture. Common ones are huffyuv and lagarith. There are others. It is like your RAW pictures an acquisition/archive format which you will encode to a delivery format after editing etc.
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    Ah, got it.

    By quality of the connections, do you mean gold plated jacks and all that?

    And for delivery format, one would use VirtualDub, WinDV123, AmarecTV, etc.?

    Please forgive all the questions. Your help is much appreciated.
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  18. Member DB83's Avatar
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    No. I mean the socket on the camera itself. 'Gold plated' is just a selling point. Not all that glitters really is gold.


    The programs you mention are for the actual capture. Delivery Format >> the final version of your video as you typically view it or share with others. Typically these days that will be AVC (h264) wrapped into a mp4 container. One you normally use an editing program which also outputs the final version.
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    Ah, OK. Getting a clearer picture now.

    Any editing programs in particular you recommend? There are many mentioned in the forums.

    For capture, it seems VirtualDub is the winner here, though some complain of sound sync issues and prefer AmarecTV or Scenalyzer.

    Thanks very much for your explanations on issues which must be pretty tedious for you, so I don't want to abuse your time any longer. Been a genuine help for me and very much appreciated.

    Cheers.

    PS Looked at customer reviews for the firewire card more closely and a fair number, in France, are reporting recently the card not working/not being recognized in Windows 10 systems, despite downloading legacy controllers and other measures. Seems it's not an unknown nor totally isolated problem.
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  20. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Firstly, Scenalyzer is only for the capture of a DV source as you currently are attempting.


    Virtualdub can be a little complicated to set up and many do find AmarecTV easier. Do NOT be tempted to using OBS. It is, despite its claims, not an appropriate capture tool.


    When it comes to video editors I would suggest you start a new topic, or just read through the many posts in the appropriate forum, for suggestions. It will come down to what to want to do and these range from simple ones that just trim and crop, add filters, and then output. Virtualdub2 or avidemux will fit that bill, to complex pro or semi pro. And again if you want a free one or a paid-for program. In the past but still relevant today one has Vegas (paid-for) but the is now a new kid on the block called Davinci Resolve (free). But better to start a new topic since those that use the more complex stuff are not likely to read this topic so will not respond.


    As for your original issue, I am not surprised. Ms do consider DV a legacy format hence the removal of support in Win10. If you have access to a PC with Win7, assuming that the card, or even the camera, are not faulty, the chances are that it would work.
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  21. Member
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    Thanks, again.

    My purpose is just simple transfer to digital of my old Video8 tapes, so Virtualdub2 or Avidemux should be fine for editing. Real main concern is high quality capture of the original video.

    I have access to a couple of laptops, one Win 7 the other XP. Neither have a firewire port, unfortunately. Also have an IBM Thinkpad from 1994 running Win95. No firewire there either!

    Cheers.
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