I've created a video editor built for speed, AMA!

[cinematicstudio]

Hi guys,

Over the course of almost 3 years, with an insane amount of hurdles, I'm finally ready to share it with the world: I've created a video editor, built for speed, from the get-go.

So, ask me anything!


First, the elephant(s) in the room:

• it's here: https://CinematicStudio.app
• it's Windows only for now (see the "How" section)
• I launch it on 15th of May (free until then) -- you will be able to buy it, or have it as a monthly subscription

Note: Initially, I considered only having it subscription based. But, I have heard your feedback, and changed my mind. Thanks!
P.S. I will need to update my pricing page


The "why"

I wanted an editor that could achieve awesome results, whose' UI would be insanely simple to use. That may sound corny, but most video editors are quite unfriendly (*)

It started out as a challenge to myself -- to see if I could build an "animator" -- an app that would allow me to animate anything. Once I had done that (btw, at the beginning, it was insanely slow ), I started to slowly iterate on it. Being an optimist, I said: sure, I'll be done with it in 3-4 months. So, here I am, after close to 3 years of hard work, with something that I'm very very proud of.

Of course, it's a never ending story, I have quite a few more features I want to add, but it's all coming together quite nicely, IMHO. The only thing missing is probably enough sleep


The "what"

I would say the app has gotten pretty much anything you'd expect, with a few tweaks. When I thought there's something that would make things easier for you, I 've done my best to add it.

And of course, if you think there's something that would make your life easier, let me know, and I'll get back to you with an estimate -- as in, how hard it would be, and when/if I would see this complete.

Here are some of the things you'll find, in no particular order:

• all the goodies: cut/copy/paste/trim, crop/transform
• audio + video layers (at this time, 12 audio layers, 48 video layers);
• drag and drop everywhere
• texts like in Final Cut
• instant preview everywhere, even when hovering the timeline
• ability to play a single track of audio, at the mouse
• keyframes (really proud of this one!)
• lots of effects, text effects, transitions

The "how"

I won't bore you with too many details here. Suffice to say, the app is UWP, C#, and Windows only for now. I plan to port it to other platforms once all important features are complete.

One more thing: I chose Windows, since, sort of speak, it's the devil you know. I wanted this to be insanely fast, and when I started developing, there weren't any good mature C# UIs that would be multi-platform.

I did not want to deal with the complexity coming from this, since I would need to deal with enough complexity as it is

Fast forward to 2021, and now there's a very good contender (Uno platform), and a runner up (.Net MAUI -- this one, is probably 6-9 months from ready). So, long story short, I will port it to other platforms in the medium-to-long term.

Thanks for reading!

John Torjo @ Cinematic Studio


* - I would say DaVinci + Final Cut are the exceptions here. Final Cut is top notch, and so is Davinci. That being said, while I have insane respect for DaVinci, IMO, it still is targetted towards professionals/experts.

[lordsmurf]

I guess.

- Subscription? No, pass.
- Win10 only? Pass.

I'm out.

[Baldrick]

Only subscription? No lifetime payment?

And I removed the emoji in the thread title. We don't like it here.

[El Heggunte]

C-sharp?

NO.

- Subscription? No, pass.
- Win10 only? Pass.

I'm out.

Right.
And possibly the software includes a time-bomb as well.

[cinematicstudio]

Only subscription? No lifetime payment?

And I removed the emoji in the thread title. We don't like it here.

Hi Baldrick,

LATER EDIT: Note: Initially, I considered only having it subscription based. But, I have heard your feedback, and changed my mind. Thanks!

About subscription only: by default, yes, it will be subscription based. I will very likely have some lifetime offers, but will probably limit them to 100/year or so.

It may sound harsh, but people will want customer support, they will want new features, updates, fixes and so on. It's not like I'm the only one doing this -- Adobe is quite famous for it, and Apple will very likely go the same route (https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/02/24/final-cut-pro-trademark-hints-at-possible-s...ption-offering)

Sorry about the emoji thing, I wasn't aware

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[cinematicstudio]

I guess.

- Subscription? No, pass.
- Win10 only? Pass.

I'm out.

Hi lordsmurf,

Note: Initially, I considered only having it subscription based. But, I have heard your feedback, and changed my mind. Thanks!

I'm sorry you feel that way. I've just said it, but will reiterate:

by default, yes, it will be subscription based. I will very likely have some lifetime offers, but will probably limit them to 100/year or so.

It may sound harsh, but people will want customer support, they will want new features, updates, fixes and so on. It's not like I'm the only one doing this -- Adobe is quite famous for it, and Apple will very likely go the same route (https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/02/24/final-cut-pro-trademark-hints-at-possible-s...ption-offering)

About Windows 10 only -- I did explain it in my original post. I will port it to other OSs, once most important features are complete.

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[cinematicstudio]

C-sharp?

NO.

Clearly, using or not using my app is your choice.

But what do you have against C# ? It's a very powerful language.

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[butterw]

- What's the minimum and recommended hardware specifications to edit 1080p60 video with your app ?
- You mention a keyframe feature, could you explain what it does ?
- Does your program have AI features ?

[cinematicstudio]

- What's the minimum and recommended hardware specifications to edit 1080p60 video with your app ?
- You mention a keyframe feature, could you explain what it does ?
- Does your program have AI features ?

Hi butterw,

Hardware requirements

1. Minimum: 8GB of RAM with 1GB of VRAM, 25 GB of free space on a preferably SSD with at least 1GB/s read speed
2. Recommended: 16+ GB of RAM, with a 2GB+ of VRAM, and 50GB+ free space on a preferably SSD with at least 1GB/s read speed

Keyframes

They are what you'd expect -- allowing you to animate anything. A sneak peak: https://cinematicstudio.app/resources/screenshot.jpg

They are very similar to Davinci, with a few cool extras. For instance, I don't yet have Davinci's inflection points on keyframes, but you click on a keyframe segment, and select the animation type (which can be linear, accelerated, elastic, bounce). Also, I do allow you to have color keyframes.

Having said that, I've partnered with a friend's company and they will be creating tutorials for me -- the first one should be coming out in 2-3 days, and the next one will be exactly on keyframes (hopefully within 1 week). Until then, here's how you can get started:

• Assuming you've created a new project, and drag-and-dropped a video
• Select it, and click the 🔸 at the top.
• By default, Opacity Property is selected.
• Do an Alt-Click in the middle of the video to create a keyframe there
• Do an Alt-Click close to the end of the video to create another keyframe
• Now, on the last keyframe you just created it: click and drag it down, until it reaches "0.00"
• Congrats! You just created your own fade out effect!

AI features

I don't have any AI at this time. I will look into adding some in the long term, assuming people would be interested.

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[cinematicstudio]

bShaders: Effects/Filters for video playback

^ Congrats on this!

On the .hlsl files - what shader version are they? They look 2.0.

Also, what licensing do you have for them?

[super8rescue]

I guess.

- Subscription? No, pass.


I'm out.

I couldn't agree more. Shocking idea, Adobe will go down the pan for their subscription, you wait and see.

Awful idea.

DaVinci resolve for me without doubt. paid or free.
Failing that Shotcut

[cinematicstudio]

Hi guys,

Thank you for all the feedback. I appreciate your thoughts and I do hear how you guys feel about subscription based services. We are all passionate when it comes to what we do and, especially when it comes to stuff we pay money for. I respect that!

I think the way I formulated the message makes it sound like subscription would be the only way to get access to the video editor. I need to put my good communicator hat on
Truth is with certain things, I figure things out as I go, until now my focus was on writing code and making the editor stand out from the competition.

Now I have to put on another hat, and figure out what’s the best way to move forward in making the editor available to the users.

And the best way of doing that is to hear what people need and what works best for them. For some might be a payed version and for others might be just a subscription to help them get trough a small project that will bring them to the next project payed project.

I am even considering keeping a lite open version, having a version that can be purchased with a one time payment that include all the updates for one year, and the subscription based option.

I hope this communicates things in more appropriate manner.
Let me know if you guys have any questions that I could answer.

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[Alwyn]

audio + video layers (at this time, 12 audio layers, 48 video layers);

You have separate layers for audio and video? Ugh!

[butterw]

bShaders: Effects/Filters for video playback

^ Congrats on this!

On the .hlsl files - what shader version are they? They look 2.0.

Also, what licensing do you have for them?

for .hlsl pixel shader: I use ps3.0 (DirectX 9.0c), but it's easy to port to Dx11.
GPL v3 license unless specified otherwise.

[ChapmanDolly]

For the subscription rates you are asking for the Pro and Premium versions, you can have Adobe Premiere, so no chance.
Like super8rescue, DaVinci Resolve rules here.

[Attachment 58631 - Click to enlarge]

[cinematicstudio]

I guess.

- Subscription? No, pass.


I'm out.

I couldn't agree more. Shocking idea, Adobe will go down the pan for their subscription, you wait and see.

Awful idea.

DaVinci resolve for me without doubt. paid or free.
Failing that Shotcut

Hu super8rescue,

I have heard your feedback, and I changed my mind -- I will give you the choice to buy it, or go with a monthly subscription. Please see the previous message.

FYI, I have not yet updated my pricing page, but will do so ASAP.

Thanks!

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[cinematicstudio]

audio + video layers (at this time, 12 audio layers, 48 video layers);

You have separate layers for audio and video? Ugh!

Hi Alwyn,

I meant, only if you add your own music or your own audio. If the audio is coming from a video, it will stay attached to it, or you can of course detach it, and in that case, it will go onto the audio layer.

Best,
John

[butterw]

- What's the minimum and recommended hardware specifications to edit 1080p60 video with your app ?

Hardware requirements

1. Minimum: 8GB of RAM with 1GB of VRAM, 25 GB of free space on a preferably SSD with at least 1GB/s read speed
2. Recommended: 16+ GB of RAM, with a 2GB+ of VRAM, and 50GB+ free space on a preferably SSD with at least 1GB/s read speed

Interesting that a sata SSD doesn't cut it.

Does your application make use of any hardware acceleration features (such as Intel or Nvidia (Turing) hardware x265 video encoder) ?

[cinematicstudio]

bShaders: Effects/Filters for video playback

^ Congrats on this!

On the .hlsl files - what shader version are they? They look 2.0.

Also, what licensing do you have for them?

for .hlsl pixel shader: I use ps3.0 (DirectX 9.0c), but it's easy to port to Dx11.
GPL v3 license unless specified otherwise.

Cool stuff! I might ask you to buy them from you, at later time (I would need them for Dx11)

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[cinematicstudio]

- What's the minimum and recommended hardware specifications to edit 1080p60 video with your app ?

Hardware requirements

1. Minimum: 8GB of RAM with 1GB of VRAM, 25 GB of free space on a preferably SSD with at least 1GB/s read speed
2. Recommended: 16+ GB of RAM, with a 2GB+ of VRAM, and 50GB+ free space on a preferably SSD with at least 1GB/s read speed

Interesting that a sata SSD doesn't cut it.

Does your application make use of any hardware acceleration features (such as Intel or Nvidia (Turing) hardware x265 video encoder) ?

Hi butterw,

I haven't used a sata SSD in a looong time All my tests have been on NMVE SSDs. I create proxies for your videos, and they end up being pretty large. I need to reference those proxies pretty much every time. I know the OS does a lot of caching itself, but long story short, the faster the SSD, the better.

Every time you hover over the timeline, I will bring in memory the video frames that exist at the mouse (with a lot of extra caching, of course). On a decent SSD, I usually get 2-3ms/load time per video frame. So if you don't apply too many effects onto the videos, you can get away with a slower hard disk. It's all about getting instant preview at all times.

About hardware acceleration features: pretty much everything happens on the GPU I use the win2d library, which is a wrapper over DirectX 11.

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[lordsmurf]

The hardware spec requirements are overly excessive and unrealistic.
The only people who push those sorts of specs are also the ones that have the funds to drop on Premiere subs (and more).
I can't even test this out, the minimum spec is too maximum.
So .... yeah.

Or maybe a gamer? But gamers don't really edit video in any sort of serious or meaningful way. They just record stuff with OBS and compress the snot out of it. Quality is secondary.

Did you happen to do any sort of market research for who might use or buy this? Because I'm just sitting here scratching my head, shaking my head.

Again ... okay.

I stopped at Premiere CS6, Adobe can keep their subs.

[sophisticles]

There's an old adage that there is no such thing as a free lunch; back when MS first introduced Win XP on of the claimed advantages was that XP booted up faster than 2k. The reality was that what MS did was change the boot process so that XP showed the user the desktop before booting up was complete and the system was ready to go, whereas 2k waited until the system was ready to go before showing you the desktop.

Which brings me to "John Torjo @ Cinematic Studio"; he claims that:

Over the course of almost 3 years, with an insane amount of hurdles, I'm finally ready to share it with the world: I've created a video editor, built for speed, from the get-go.

If indeed he spent 3 years on this app, then that is a sad statement on his programming abilities.

The "speed" he touts doesn't come from any special programming technique or optimization, what his app does is create a, as he refers to it, "PRORES-likealike proxy" and as he points out "it can be a time consuming process for HD files".

Other than being less capable, there is no difference between this app and any other app that allows you to create proxies in order to speed up video editing.

Aside from that the GUI sucks, I have no idea what "John" was envisioning but if someone wants to see a video editing GUI done right try Shotcut or OpenShot, which I have to admit I wasn't too crazy about when I first tried it but I have been warming up to it or even AviDemux, which has a certain elegance in its simplicity.

I don't know what it is about C# programmers, remember that kid that coded that silly AV1 gui for launching multiple instances of aom and he was so proud of himself that after I forget how many months he was able to code something that did the exact same thing that could be done with ffmpeg and a simply shell script.

I can't imagine "John Torjo @ Cinematic Studio" making a dime from this software at any price. The legally free, open source alternatives are easier to use and more capable and legally free and the paid proprietary competitors, such as Vegas or its less expensive siblings simply can't be touched by this app.

Good luck, you're going to need it.

[cinematicstudio]

For the subscription rates you are asking for the Pro and Premium versions, you can have Adobe Premiere, so no chance.
Like super8rescue, DaVinci Resolve rules here.

[Attachment 58631 - Click to enlarge]

Hi ChapmanDolly,

The “How much will it cost” is a talk that fits the “critical discussion” profile.

So one must ask, is it a matter of money or is it a matter of value? The value of the product should be reflected in the price. That’s what guides the price of any product.
If the value of the product is never addressed but rather dismissed, is that not what we want others not to do towards us?

I am sure you also find quite offensive when someone tells you your price is too high when all you are asking is for a fair price. At this level of addressing things, the value of what the user gets, is not even considered. To simply say it’s too expensive, is not the whole story.
Isn’t is more like a one sided story?

I do respect the fact that others have had more time to market extensively what their video editor offers. And this is also the point that I am at.
A balanced talk would consider the value given and then decide on the price.

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[lordsmurf]

I am sure you also find quite offensive when someone tells you your price is too high when all you are asking is for a fair price.

People are here telling you that the price isn't "fair" (accurate). It's not what your market will bear. Again, did you do any market research, on who your likely buyers will be? You've priced it for the Adobe crowd, spec'd the minimum for the latest&greatest crowd, but you're not talking to the those crowds. (And the Adobe crowd will not take the time to entertain your solicitation.)

I've not seeing the value here. I'd have to spend $$$$ just to have a system that meets the minimum specs.
If it can't run on an Intel i7-6700K with 16GB RAM, Win7, onboard Intel graphics, and many TBs of SSD -- aka, my current main system -- you've f'd up. Many serious video folks don't want to deal with the hassle of Win10 nuking their hardware and software at updates.

[super8rescue]

I guess.

- Subscription? No, pass.


I'm out.

I couldn't agree more. Shocking idea, Adobe will go down the pan for their subscription, you wait and see.

Awful idea.

DaVinci resolve for me without doubt. paid or free.
Failing that Shotcut

Hu super8rescue,

I have heard your feedback, and I changed my mind -- I will give you the choice to buy it, or go with a monthly subscription. Please see the previous message.

FYI, I have not yet updated my pricing page, but will do so ASAP.

Thanks!

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

Thank You John. It is nice to get positive feedback from my very negative feedback.

That said, I won't be moving from Davinci resolve anytime soon.
When we went in to lockdown in March 2020 I took it upon myself to learn DVR for colour grading my cine film image sequence scans.

I work with image sequences of up to 30,000 still images per edit, DVR does it without proxy files on my 32gb RAM i7 laptop

I'm certainly not an expert but the last 12 months of using DVR have been an absolute joy.
Every time I open that software it does what I want without barely looking at it now.

I am so pleased with myself. 5 days watching back to back tutorials and the rest of the year learning.

I do use Shotcut from time to time, again, free open source software, I have been using it on and off for around three years.

I have been known to fire up my $20 sans serif movie plus x6 for a quick slideshow too. It's so intuitive to use.

I believe subscription based software for my generation is not welcome, perhaps today's 'whats app generation' are accustomed to subscriptions.

In my day, you either got it free, or bought it and it was yours.

I am considering trying the free version of HitFilm Express but again, can I really be bothered to spend another year learning what I can do already? Probably not.

Persuading people to move from thier known software is a tough call at the best of times, making it so attractive they can't resist is a good option imo.


I wish you the best of times with your edit software, and thank you for changing your mind on subs, I really do think you could be on to a winner.
People can not always pay thier subs, they want to own what is on thier computer, be it video audio or photo work.

cheers for now.

[cinematicstudio]

Thank You John. It is nice to get positive feedback from my very negative feedback.

That said, I won't be moving from Davinci resolve anytime soon.
When we went in to lockdown in March 2020 I took it upon myself to learn DVR for colour grading my cine film image sequence scans.

I work with image sequences of up to 30,000 still images per edit, DVR does it without proxy files on my 32gb RAM i7 laptop

I'm certainly not an expert but the last 12 months of using DVR have been an absolute joy.
Every time I open that software it does what I want without barely looking at it now.

I am so pleased with myself. 5 days watching back to back tutorials and the rest of the year learning.

I do use Shotcut from time to time, again, free open source software, I have been using it on and off for around three years.

I have been known to fire up my $20 sans serif movie plus x6 for a quick slideshow too. It's so intuitive to use.

I believe subscription based software for my generation is not welcome, perhaps today's 'whats app generation' are accustomed to subscriptions.

In my day, you either got it free, or bought it and it was yours.

I am considering trying the free version of HitFilm Express but again, can I really be bothered to spend another year learning what I can do already? Probably not.

Persuading people to move from thier known software is a tough call at the best of times, making it so attractive they can't resist is a good option imo.


I wish you the best of times with your edit software, and thank you for changing your mind on subs, I really do think you could be on to a winner.
People can not always pay thier subs, they want to own what is on thier computer, be it video audio or photo work.

cheers for now.

Hi super8rescue,

Thanks for the very kind words!

1. I totally understand about staying with DaVinci -- it's an insanely awesome software!

2. About DVR doing it without proxy files -- it doesn't have instant preview, that's why it's able to do that. Having said that, I have lately found of a way to improve on working without proxy files (while I'm generating them in the background). Basically I can use ffmpeg -- this comes with some licensing issues, and I chose to avoid it until I have a clear understanding of what this means on my end (how much I have to pay for x264 licensing)

3. I wasn't even aware of MoviePlus Seems the last version was back in 2012

4. I totally understand what you mean about owning stuff vs subscriptions. I need to adjust to what people want, so I try to, best of my abilities

5. About persuading people to move from their known software - agreed, I know it won't be easy on my end, but yeah, I'll show more and more tutorials about what my app can do. I already have one tutorial in the making, hopefully ready by end of tomorrow, and moving forward, I will strive for one tutorial/week.

6. Thanks again for getting back to me.

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio

[cinematicstudio]

If indeed he spent 3 years on this app, then that is a sad statement on his programming abilities.

Wow,

Such a low and baseless insult doesn't even deserve an answer.

For everyone else, please judge for yourself: is this is bad UI - https://cinematicstudio.app/resources/screenshot.jpg ?

John @ Cinematic Studio

[sophisticles]

If indeed he spent 3 years on this app, then that is a sad statement on his programming abilities.

Such a low and baseless insult doesn't even deserve an answer.

And yet you chose to answer.

Also, it is disingenuous of you to post a screenshot and ask people to judge the Ui. UI literally stands for User Interface, not how it looks but how it allows a user to interact with the underlying software.

Your UI blows and the general app sucks.

And you want to charge $50/month for the "Premium" version if they pay for 1 year in advance and $58/month if they wish to be billed monthly.

LOL!!!

I think your best play is to revamp your licensing model, give the software away for free and then charge users for the ability to uninstall your software when they realize what a waste it is.

In other words, hold the pc's of the dummies that install your app hostage, only letting them uninstall and keep it off if they agree to pay you $50/month, or else threaten them with reinstallation.

That I think will work.

What do you anticipate will be the time to failure of your little business venture? 1 day? 1 week?

How many suckers, I mean subscribers do you think you will get? 0? 0+0? 3*0?

Seriously though, "great" app.

[lordsmurf]

For everyone else, please judge for yourself: is this is bad UI

I was going to write that it looks fine to me.

But then, this comment came...

UI literally stands for User Interface, not how it looks but how it allows a user to interact with the underlying software.

I agree with this. Sometimes complicated-looking or ugly interfaces can be very intuitive and powerful (Hybrid comes to make, very daunting at a glance, but quite good once you gasp the mild learning curve). Whereas something "pretty" can be awful. In fact, most "pretty" software is just lipstick on a pig, all glam and no substance.

I don't know how yours is, but "looks good" means very little to UI.

Wow,
Such a low and baseless insult

I agree, some members can be more prickly than others. I generally try to always stay friendly, but I have my pet peeves as well.

You need to understand the environment you're entering here. I hate aging myself, but I sometimes have to remind folks that I've been around digital video for decades (90s). Far too many times, software comes out, makes promises (few made, most "coming soon"), charges money, then disappears in a few years. What really sucks is when that software had unique features, gets OS locked, and hacks/cracks have to be used to get it to work (even for those who validly paid for it). That's a PITA, sometimes a gray area. So when I see "new software/company (out of nowhere, left field), big promises, charging money", my default answer is "hell no".

I want to be supportive of new video software devs, but I'm getting lots of bad vibes here. It seems to be a money-grab for a product with no planning, no real-world vetting. So to be honest, I'm not even sure I want to say "good luck" with any sort of genuineness.

I looked at your Youtube channel, and I started to laugh. You've made a guide that treat video editors like 5-year-olds. For a $50 to $100 editor app for kids, grandma, Joe Sixpack, yep, good job. But then the disconnect comes when you want this to be a costly product more in line with Adobe. No! It's like talking to a teen about cars, then trying to sell him a new Audi or Tesla or other overpriced car. Huh?

So again, I'm out.

And possibly the software includes a time-bomb as well.

BTW, this isn't just an amusing throw-away comment. While he may have meant it in jest, the "time bomb" is what I referred to above, when software gets abandoned.

Some of the best capturing and authoring software is OS locked, abandoned.

What's most worrisome is when software "phones home" (TGMPEnc does this, VOB2MPEG Pro did this). What happens if/when those servers go offline? Is my software suddenly bricked? aka time bombed? (Rhetorical. Yes, it is! And then you have to hack/crack it, if you can, which is BS.)

[cinematicstudio]

For everyone else, please judge for yourself: is this is bad UI

I was going to write that it looks fine to me.
...

Hi lordmurf,

Let me address your issues.

1. I know what UI stands for. I gave you that screenshot, as a peak preview. You can try the app if you want to see more. As opposed to some, who simply throw away words in the dark.
2. As a matter of fact, I've been here for a few decades as well, I've been programming professionally since 1998. I can sympathize with what you're saying -- I guess on this one, you will see in the long run. And, as I've specified in the thread, you will be able to do a one-time purchase.
3. It's certainly not a money grab. I've made the app be insanely easy to use, and insanely fast -- that took a lot of time and effort. Which I know some people will appreciate.
4. About my youtube channel - I haven't had time to do more tutorials, since I've been busy coding. However, tutorials will start coming up in a few days (I have hired a company for that)
5. Why would I shoot myself in the foot and include a time bomb?

At the end of the day, it comes down to trust. And that is slowly earned -- I'm ok with that.

Best,
John @ Cinematic Studio