VideoHelp Forum


Try StreamFab All-in-One and rip Netflix video! Or Try DVDFab and copy Blu-rays! or rip iTunes movies!
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2
1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 34
Thread
  1. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Florida
    Search Comp PM
    I am using a Roxio VHS to DVD card, but I am using OBS instead of ROXIO.

    My plan was to capture and edit in MP4 x264 and then encode to MPEG2 for the DVDs

    Should I :
    1. Capture in MPEG to to make DVDs, then convert to MP4?
    2. Capture to MP4 to make video for modern TVs?
    3 Capture in both MPEG2 and MP4 and edit twice?

    Which makes more sense to you?
    Quote Quote  
  2. I have to say it thousands of times : Don't use OBS for analog video capture. Use VirtualDub and if it doesn't work VirtualDub2 or AmarecTV.
    And of course never use EasyCrap clones.
    Last edited by phelissimo_; 4th Apr 2021 at 09:56.
    Quote Quote  
  3. In my opinion, the best way would be to capture to a lossless codec, like Lagarith or HuffYUV. Use this master copy to make an edited copy. Then, make copies of the edited version in MPEG2 or MP4.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Member dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    OBS is a screen capture it doesn't manage well digital signal coming from a capture card, and most importantly it is designed for HD and 4K streams not SD.
    Quote Quote  
  5. 1. No
    2. No
    3. No

    As mentioned already, lossless all the way until the final formats.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Florida
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by anachronon View Post
    In my opinion, the best way would be to capture to a lossless codec, like Lagarith or HuffYUV. Use this master copy to make an edited copy. Then, make copies of the edited version in MPEG2 or MP4.
    Other's have said I can't use OBS.
    One has suggested I use virtualdub
    One thing is for sure. I don't want to Use Roxio. I'm frustrated and confused.

    The virtualdub suggestion concerns me because it produces AVI files, which aren't around anymore.
    I want to produce video that a default windows installation would play without having the people who view my video forced to install HuffnPuff.
    My goal is to use standard formats readable on every computer and TV for years to come. I don't want to use ancient file formats.

    I see people on youtube using OBS and it looked easy. The video looked at least as good as the one roxio captures.

    My motto is, if a file cannot be played on the most popular devices by default, then it is lossy because only some video guru with a specific configuration can play it.

    So I want something that can be played on every TV. Played on every computer. Played on every DVD Player. EDITED ON ANY PROGRAM.
    MP4 seemed like the standard that does all this in the modern age. Mp4 was from God. HuffnPuff sounds like the Devil.

    So what software editor reads HuffnPuff and logorithm? What do I use to convert it into MP4 and MPEG2?
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    You can use AVStoDVD (mpeg-2) and VidCoder (AVC/HEVC)
    Quote Quote  
  8. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post

    So what software editor reads HuffnPuff and logorithm?
    You're just showing your abysmal ignorance. Maybe you can learn how to do it right; maybe you can't.
    So what software editor reads HuffnPuff and logorithm?
    Is that what passes for humor in your world? All editors read the lossless AVIs. If you want to edit, you keep it lossless until the end when you finally convert to the end format(s). MP4 is lossy. Multiple edits using MP4 will result in exponentially increased degradation of your video. Once you have the video edited to the way you like, then you might take davexnet's suggestion for doing the final encoding.

    The virtualdub suggestion concerns me because it produces AVI files, which aren't around anymore.
    Nonsense.
    I don't want to use ancient file formats.
    More gibberish born out of ignorance. I use Lagarith lossless AVIs virtually every day of my life. Not obsolete.
    My motto is, if a file cannot be played on the most popular devices by default...
    More nonsense. Once again, you'll keep it lossless until the final encodes.
    So I want something that can be played on every TV. Played on every computer. Played on every DVD Player.
    And that's what you'll get, if you'll only pay attention.
    Quote Quote  
  9. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Florida
    Search Comp PM
    Ouch!
    I get it.
    I'm not funny.
    Abysmal Ignorance. This is true. I have not done this before.
    I have to hand it to you. You've handed my my rear properly.

    So I think I have figured out how to get virtualdub communicating with the capture card.
    I installed lagarith and it shows up as an option in video.
    What codec do I use for lossless audio?
    Quote Quote  
  10. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    What codec do I use for lossless audio?
    You don't need a special codec for lossless audio. Just use standard PCM.
    Quote Quote  
  11. Don't compress the audio while capturing. Compress it later to AC3 (for DVD) and AAC (for MP4).
    Quote Quote  
  12. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Roxio rebadges Easycaps (akla Easycraps) for a huge markup.
    So between it, and OBS, not good.
    But the VCR also matters. And TBC matters.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  13. For the audio setting during capture, use 48000-16bit. Both video and audio will be captured into the same file. Any video editor can read AVI---though you may need to get the Lagarith plugin, if it is not already installed. On "dead" video formats, you may be thinking of FLV, which was the old Adobe Flash format. Always edit and save in a lossless format. Once your video is ready for presentation, make your compressed copy. You will need to go with MPEG-2 for a DVD, and MP4, if you wish to upload to Youtube.

    For compression, I have heard that "HandBrake" is pretty good---and it's free. I have yet to try it, so some others here might have better suggestions. For playing your uncompressed video files, you might want to look into "VLC Media Player". It's basic, and doesn't take-up a lot of memory or processor resources. It's also free. You will recognize it by the traffic-cone icon.

    One other note: You will find that in saving video files, you must always save as a new file. Video editors will not let you save to the same filename, as the one currently open. Video files are a "streaming" format---so, they cannot save over themselves.
    Quote Quote  
  14. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Hybrid makes Handbrale look like newbie junkware.
    Slight learning curve, but quality is worth it.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  15. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Florida
    Search Comp PM
    Since this post, I have tried capturing with virtualdub and both the huffyuv and lagarith codecs, The results are worse than with OBS capturing to MP4. The video and audio freeze intermittently. I have a clean installation of windows 10 and virtualdub 2. This is why it seems easier to use OBS. I think lossless is not an option for me. The tapes are damaged also I think, but the audio in particular is much better with OBS. I can't have audible dropouts when there are none on the tapes. The software is what is causing this. Lossless should not be worse than x264. I have already had my lecture on the evils of not using lossless.
    Quote Quote  
  16. VirtualDub is hard to get set up for video capture. Be sure not to play the audio while capturing, Audio -> Enable Audio Playback (unticked). That is one of the big issues with VirtualDub. Also, don't compress the audio while capturing, just save the audio as uncompressed PCM. If you still have issues go to Capture -> Timing... and try the different sync options, especially Do Not Resync. Beyond that read this: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/104098-Why-does-your-system-drop-frames
    Last edited by jagabo; 12th Apr 2021 at 13:49.
    Quote Quote  
  17. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Florida
    Search Comp PM
    According to virtualdub, it isn't dropping any frames. But I know the tape isn't causing it because when I capture with other software and codecs, the audio is fine. I would think that adding the overhead of compression would be worse than with lossless.

    I am thinking maybe I should capture once for mpeg2 and once for mp4.

    The settings I was following from Tim Ford's article on capturing VHS with OBS direct you to set the canvas to 720x480 and the output to 720x540.
    I was using Kdenlive to transcode the MP4 to MPEG2 VOB files, but he also said use 720x540 on the output for DVD.

    I am leery about using a weird aspect ratio, But he suggests this to overcome the fact that modern devices have rectangular pixels.

    https://timfordphoto.com/digitizing-vhs-tapes-using-obs/
    Quote Quote  
  18. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    ...but he also said use 720x540 on the output for DVD.
    Do you just make this stuff up? From the link you provided:
    For the “Output (Scaled) Resolution” setting, type in 720×540. The reason for this is that your old-school VHS tapes use a resolution that will not look correct when played back on a typical computer screen (it will look a bit stretched). By changing the output resolution to 720×540, you’ll be using a 4:3 ratio which will look correct on more modern devices. If your intent is to burn the files to a DVD for use in a DVD player, you can use 720×480 as the output.
    OBS is awful for capping tapes, as mentioned several times already. But you should always cap at 720x480. Since you'll be editing and reencoding the videos afterwards, you can resize anything needing resizing then.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    Whoever that Tim Ford is I can guarantee you he knows nothing about VCR other than insert a tape and press play. There is more to analog video than just a video signal, It has horizontal timing signal, vertical timing signal, chroma signal, luma signal and a specific capture resolution for each color standard. If any of the mentioned signals is weak or missing you get problems.
    Quote Quote  
  20. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Florida
    Search Comp PM
    No Monamo, I didn't make it up, at least not intentionally. It's a typo. I should have typed 720x480 as he clearly stated in the article.

    The part you are referring to is what is puzzling me.

    Here's the source of my confusion.

    He recommends capturing and outputting in 720x540 for computers and other devices but 720x480 if you are creating DVDs.

    My intention is to do both. So should I follow the 720x540 advice and then encode to MPEG2 720x480 or follow the 720x480 advice, but create another MP4 from it that is 720x540?
    Or should I just capture twice for each separate purpose?
    Quote Quote  
  21. Always capture NTSC video at 720x480, YUY2 of other YUV 4:2:2 chroma subsampling, with a lossless codec. Filter, resize, and encode later as suits your purpose(s).
    Quote Quote  
  22. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    My intention is to do both. So should I follow the 720x540 advice and then encode to MPEG2 720x480 or follow the 720x480 advice, but create another MP4 from it that is 720x540?
    Or should I just capture twice for each separate purpose?
    Do it as jagabo (and I) wrote above.
    Quote Quote  
  23. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Florida
    Search Comp PM
    So my most recent experiment is to use Virtualdub, Capturing at 720x480 using h264 lossless for video and PCM for audio. Still getting intermittent blue screens due to the tape. But they occur at different points that were successfully captured before. I will see whether they are freezing and having audio glitches, which is why I was so stubborn about OBS, which wasn't perfect either.

    I do have a couple more question and I don't know if they belong in another thread.

    The VCR I am using has a progressive scan switch set to on. Mediainfo reports progressive scan. Would that mean that the video I am capturing was never interlaced? Do some camcorders record progressive or are they all interlaced?

    Also I am wondering if capturing directly from the original camcorder might help some of the problems from the tape. What are your thoughts?
    Quote Quote  
  24. Originally Posted by jpvoodoo View Post
    So my most recent experiment is to use Virtualdub, Capturing at 720x480 using h264 lossless for video and PCM for audio.
    Please keep in mind that unless you're capture HW is capable of laying down uncompressed raw binary video to disk (super large files sizes) there is no such thing in reality as a "LOSSLESS" H264 capture. FFmpeg supposedly has a H264 "lossless" mode but it has been proven to be not so lossless in reality - certainly less artifacting than a great many other codecs but not completely "lossless".

    Also please keep in mind that when recording audio with exactly the same specifications as the ORIGINAL AUDIO bit for bit as PCM your result is a lossless copy of the original. Record that same audio using a LESSER recording specification (i.e. less sample rate and bit depth) and you now have a "lossy" copy of the original regardless of the fact that it's recorded in a PCM format or not.
    Quote Quote  
  25. When handled correctly x264 losses is truly lossless with YUV 4:2:2 video sources. Here's an example. An uncompressed YUY2 video from VirtualDub2 and the same video compressed with its included version of x264 with the lossless setting.
    Image Attached Files
    Quote Quote  
  26. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    When handled correctly x264 losses is truly lossless with YUV 4:2:2 video sources. Here's an example. An uncompressed YUY2 video from VirtualDub2 and the same video compressed with its included version of x264 with the lossless setting.
    Samples gleaned from the two examples given... As one can plainly see. They are NOT the same. First lossy artifacts to appear are usually edge smoothing where we can see here the obvious losses incurred - asummably the yuy2 sample is supposed to represent the "original" and the "lossless" the copy... notice the diminished edge quality from the original (left) as opposed to the "lossless" sample on the right...

    Click image for larger version

Name:	yuy2-avi.JPG
Views:	16
Size:	21.1 KB
ID:	58462 Click image for larger version

Name:	lossless.JPG
Views:	15
Size:	20.5 KB
ID:	58463
    Quote Quote  
  27. Your editor is deinterlacing the h.264 video, but not the YUY2 video. And you've resized them, further messing them up. Use AviSynth to open them and you'll see they're identical:

    Code:
    v1 = LWLibavVideoSource("yuy2.avi", cache=false, prefer_hw=2) 
    v2 = LWLibavVideoSource("x264lossless.avi", cache=false, prefer_hw=2, format="YUY2") 
    Subtract(v1,v2)
    Levels(127, 1.0, 129, 0, 255)
    Hence, "when handled correctly."


    yuy2:
    Image
    [Attachment 58465 - Click to enlarge]


    x264lossless:
    Image
    [Attachment 58466 - Click to enlarge]
    Last edited by jagabo; 17th Apr 2021 at 22:52.
    Quote Quote  
  28. Member dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    That sample is not the perfect example to show compression artifacts, If you look at the bottom text you can see them clearly.

    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Untitled.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	39.6 KB
ID:	58467  

    Quote Quote  
  29. Those are deinterlacing artifacts, not compression artifacts. Once again, the software you are using is deinterlacing the h.264 encoded video, but not the uncompressed video. There are no compression artifacts. The x264lossless video is truly lossless -- unless you don't know how what you're doing. Which is probably a good reason for jpvoodoo to avoid it and stick with Lagarith or UT Video.
    Last edited by jagabo; 18th Apr 2021 at 07:35.
    Quote Quote  
  30. Well ok.. Once de-'lacing was turned off on the one they were more in line with each other, sure..

    Given that...

    Let me ask you this. Say you have a transport stream container (.TS file) of 1 audio and 1 video stream -
    the audio stream == AC3 5.1 surround
    the video stream == MPEG4 AVC H.264 9Mbps 720P
    File size == 2.8GB

    Can this be put to a LOSSLESS (i.e. no loss in quality from the original) H.264 matroska file of lesser file size?

    If not, there is no point to this particular conversation...

    If yes, how? That doesn't take 1-2 hours of encode time to complete.
    Last edited by thghgv; 18th Apr 2021 at 13:10.
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads