Converting AVC To HEVC - is it really worth it.

[bridgyguy]

Hi, i have thousands of 1080p and 720p AVC (mp4) video files of TV shows, documentaries, and some treasured movies, all of which i want to keep, but they are now at the point where the file sizes mean that i need to buy more portable hard drives to store them on.

I have a Pro version of VideoReDo (version 6) which has a Batch Tool that allows me to import multiple files and convert them to any output profile that i create.

I have completed several files, and the HEVC output file sizes (and bitrates) are approx 65% lower than the original AVC files.

VideoReDo has output profiles which are loaded with default presets for most every day uses, and which can be altered if need be, however the Developers have told me that in normal cases these presets should be fine for most conversions.

One folder of 81x 1080p AVC files was 49gb in size, after conversion to HEVC they now total 25gb, but i am wondering if it is really worth doing the rest, just to save storage space.

Any thoughts on this, are there any real negatives or pitfalls that would possibly make me reconsider this task.

I have a dedicated 17" 6 core Metabox laptop for rendering projects, which i would be using for this task if i go ahead.

[ProWo]

... but i am wondering if it is really worth doing the rest, just to save storage space.

No, mainly because you lose quality. Any further encoding will reduce the video quality. With today's hard disk prices, it is better to leave the files as they are.

[bridgyguy]

... but i am wondering if it is really worth doing the rest, just to save storage space.

No, mainly because you lose quality. Any further encoding will reduce the video quality. With today's hard disk prices, it is better to leave the files as they are.

Sorry i should have said that this is not about how cheap portable drives are, as i can afford to buy all the drives that i want, this is all about keeping the number of portable drives to a minimum, especially given that i keep 2 copies of all files stored on different drives, and each set of files is stored in a different location.

I have read all about this so called loss of quality in so many places that it drives me insane, so all i am going to add to this will be that after i converted one of my 1080p AVC (mp4) with a bitrate of 2.5kb/s to 1080p HEVC using their built in presets (it came out at 1.5kb/s) i played both version on my 65" LG Smart TV and i can't see any difference with my eyes at any distance, the same applies for playback on my 17" laptops.

Remembering too that these files are not the originals, they have already been re-encoded and lost so much quality already, so losing a fraction more is not going to change things, they still look ok on my TV, and they will not be watched very often anyway.

I currently have 2x 5tb portable drives, with each drive holding a copy of all the files, but both drives are almost full, and i just preferred not to have to buy 2 more portable drives to add future files to.

Converting these AVC files to HEVC will free up at least 30 to 35% of the current storage space.

[butterw]

Re-encoding 2.5Mbps 1080p AVC to 1.5Mbps 1080p Hevc:
If you are not that concerned about quality and have the required hardware for encoding Hevc (and playing it), it can save space.

I would typically only re-encode a poor quality original encode with high enough bitrate (ex: 2.5Mbps), and may decrease the output resolution (ex: to 720p).
I encode using crf (ex: 23 or lower) and sometimes the filesize gain just isn't worth it (ex: 25% or less).

[flashandpan007]

leave the files as they are

[ozymango]

Any thoughts on this, are there any real negatives or pitfalls that would possibly make me reconsider this task.

You can buy a WD external USB3 5TB drive for a little over a hundred bucks.
This is a small form-factor drive, measuring about 4" x 3" x 3/4".
You can buy a couple of these drives and you'd have 10TB (well a bit less, say 9TB) of storage space for ~$200.
Yes, this would mean you would have to "carry around" two more drives. That is one consideration.
But otherwise, you would like to convert all your movies instead? Save space?
Are you deleting the master files that you then compressed to fit into a smaller space? If so, then space is more important than quality, and you adjust your time and budget accordingly.
If you're not deleting the master files, then you're just adding additional lower-rez copies to your collection, for reasons I would not understand.
I don't mean this in offense -- it's simply that the work involved in converting all these videos far exceeds any reasonable argument against just adding more hard drives.
We're not talking about hundreds of pounds of equipment you'd need to purchase, which would take up space in your garage. We are quite literally talking about doubling your storage space using no more actual physical space than a trade-paperback book.
So if you are genuinely serious with your statement that the physical space and weight demands of a couple small external drives is too much to bear, as opposed to sitting down behind a computer and taking the time and effort to convert all your videos to another format -- I can't help.

[netmask56]

Get a NAS capable of taking 4 to 8 drives. Configure it as a RAID 5 system. These days you can get up to 16TB drives! But 4 x 8TB should more than cover your needs.

[jagabo]

after i converted one of my 1080p AVC (mp4) with a bitrate of 2.5kb/s to 1080p HEVC using their built in presets (it came out at 1.5kb/s) i played both version on my 65" LG Smart TV and i can't see any difference

Lucky you.

[bridgyguy]

You can buy a WD external USB3 5TB drive for a little over a hundred bucks.
This is a small form-factor drive, measuring about 4" x 3" x 3/4".

Thanks a lot for your reply, yes i am very familiar with portable drives, been using them ever since they were first released, back when they were almost out of reach for most everyone who wanted to buy one, now days here in Sydney i can buy a 5tb portable for around AU$150 so very cheap indeed.

As for the available time needed to convert thousands of files to HEVC, well there is barely any input time from me as these files do not need to be edited, and as i mentioned, VideoReDo Professional has a built in Batch tool that allows me to input hundreds of files into the Batch manager, i select my output destination folder, i select my output format profile, i press the RUN button, and i can walk away from the laptop and let the job complete, when finished i just load up another lot of files and repeat, so a few minutes here and there is all that is required, and so far i know that the Batch manager can hold over 500 files, so as long as the source files remain on the hard drive, i figure that i could load up over 1000 or more.

The main concern is always going to be the reliability of the laptop that i have recently bought to use for editing and encoding stuff, having it running continuously for long periods of time.

As far as losing quality, well i would seriously love to see some actual data that indicates the typical quality loss that is suffered by converting say a 1080p AVC file @ 3kb/s to HEVC using the default bitrate of around 65 to 70% of the actual source file bitrate, which is what the developers of VideoReDo use in their default profile presets, i can increase this, but it would defeat the whole purpose of converting the files to save space.

Once converted, play one of the 1080p AVC files and it's HEVC counterpart on a 65" 4k smart TV and see if anyone can tell the difference, because i certainly can't in the few files that i have already completed, so loss of quality here is a non issue as far as i am concerned.

As for the AVC source files, if i did do the HEVC conversions, and i was happy with the results, which i should be based on the files already completed, yes they will be deleted from my drives, otherwise as you point out, there would be no sense in converting them to HEVC to save storage space.

Re-encoding 2.5Mbps 1080p AVC to 1.5Mbps 1080p Hevc:
If you are not that concerned about quality and have the required hardware for encoding Hevc (and playing it), it can save space.

Thanks, with these particular files, from TV shows, Documentaries and a few movies, no quality is not an issue, heck some of them look to be rather good, others seem to be not so good, and i have watched every one of them on my 65" 4k TV and the TV upscales the files quite well, so i have no concerns about losing a very tiny bit of quality if it does actually happen during the conversion to HEVC, and if it does, it would be minimal, and certainly not that much that most people would ever notice it.

As far as hardware goes, i have a 17" Metabox Alpha-X NH70RH gaming Laptop as my encoding machine, it has 64gb of ram, an i7-9750H 6 Core processor, NVIDIA GTX 1050 3GB graphics card, dedicated Intel HD630 graphics, a 512gb TEAM PCIe M.2 SSD card for the windows drive, and 2x 2tb SSD's for storage, one has source files on it, the other is my output destination for completed files, before they are moved off to my portable backup drives.

I have another laptop identical to that as my every day laptop, except that i don't have any internal drives except for the 512gb M.2 SSD for windows, i use a 5tb portable drive for storing my personal files on when using the laptop, and when not using the laptop i remove the portable drive and put it away from the laptop for security purposes, i also have that 5tb files drive sync'd to my online cloud storage service when using the laptop so i can access all my stuff from anywhere i go where i have an internet connection.

Lucky you.

I probably already know what you would have to say about this debate, especially the bit about "loss of quality" so i am not going to entertain this loss of quality topic as it really makes no difference to my end goal, and that is to convert them as best as i can, and to save myself from having to buy more portable drives when i don't really need to.

Get a NAS capable of taking 4 to 8 drives. Configure it as a RAID 5 system. These days you can get up to 16TB drives! But 4 x 8TB should more than cover your needs.

this defeats the whole purpose of what i am wanting to do, and portability and security are my top priorities, i don't want a box full of hard drives sitting on my desk plugged into a power point on my wall just to power it up, like we used to do before portable drives came out.

For me, having 2x 5tb portable drives is what i have and want, just trying to avoid having to add more drives to my collection.

[jagabo]

You've already made up your mind. Why are you here?

[ron spencer]

Get rid of the portable drives and get a NAS. The NAS will permit you to grow...the portable drives just create a mess.

But if you don't want to spend and you have lots of time to encode then encode away and trash the originals. To me it is a waste of time, but that's just me.

Pretty much everyone I know who bought into the small portable drive thing ended up trashing them for a NAS or similar device.


So is it worth it? I wouldn't. I have better things to do, even with a batch running. But again, if you don't care about quality and are cost conscious then portable drives are the way to go for you.

[bridgyguy]

Get rid of the portable drives and get a NAS. The NAS will permit you to grow...the portable drives just create a mess.

that is just plain utter rubbish, and why are you so intent on diverting this Topic to mass storage solutions when that is not what i want, and nor has the topic got anything to do with this subject.

As a final note on storage, i already made it clear that i don't need to grow in the type of magnitude i think you might be referring to, you have your way of doing things and i have mine, not everyone wants their life or computing to be the same way that you run yours, and good for your friends if they ditched their portables and moved over to a NAS, i too know people who run NAS boxes but they do it for completely different purposes and needs than i do, i just don't want my setup to work like that, portability is my aim, not to be bogged down at a desk with cables everywhere and zapping my power for no real reason, as i said, i want to take my files with me whenever i need to and just plug them into other computers to access my stuff, plain and simple.

Next your probably going to try and convince me not to use a Laptop and to get myself a desktop pc instead, because they are better and don't create a mess like portable drives do ?

Also as mentioned, there is no time wasting by converting the files either, i can batch them up and let the laptop work away while i am doing all my other precious things in life, and i would like someone to show me this so called drop in output quality where i am going to notice any real difference between the AVC and the HEVC files when i watch them, and remember that i am not a pixel peeper, and i don't worry too much about colors or other stuff like that, the source files were trashed from the originals anyway, so converting one more time is not going to be a game changer.

I watch these files for the content, not for the quality.

[ozymango]

Next your probably going to try and convince me not to use a Laptop and to get myself a desktop pc instead, because they are better and don't create a mess like portable drives do?

You started this thread with a question: Any thoughts on this, are there any real negatives or pitfalls that would possibly make me reconsider this task.

Now you're getting your knickers in a twist because people have expressed their views on the negatives and pitfalls.

To top that off, you knew from the start what you wanted to do: Compress all your videos and put more of them into less space. The End.

Goodbye and good luck. You're on my block list.

[ron spencer]

Next your probably going to try and convince me not to use a Laptop and to get myself a desktop pc instead, because they are better and don't create a mess like portable drives do ?

Laptops don't create a mess per se, but they cannot be as easily upgraded; so you will waste less environmentally, spend less in the long run, and get more power with a desktop....but that is a whole other discussion. Honestly if you were really THAT WORRIED about portability (share movies maybe) then you may want to consider getting rid of the mess of portable drives with a unit that has the advantages of RAID (if you want) and the ability to grow if you ever need to:

https://www.terra-master.com/global/products/video-professional-das/d4-thunderbolt-3.html

https://www.cineraid.com/products/home_h458.htm

I have the Cineraid and it is awesome.

Again I think the purchase/repurchase of portable drives is a hassle...and so is the reencoding of already poor quality files (as per your own admission). So get rid of the mess and upgrade! If your collection grows the portables will just be wasted.

i would like someone to show me this so called drop in output quality where i am going to notice any real difference between the AVC and the HEVC files when i watch them

Nobody can show you anything...you need to see for yourself. If you have a 720p panel then you probably won't notice....but a 4K panel...you will!

[bridgyguy]

I already said that i played the 720p AVC files on my 65" 4k TV and then played the HEVC output and i see absolutely no difference, you might see it, but i can't, and i showed the same files to 3 other people who was here, and they too could not tell the difference when i played those files on the TV, because this so called drop in quality is not as bad as people make it out to be, it is just nit picking just to create an argument.

Again, you have repeatedly turned this topic on it's head by raising the issue of my storage needs, i told you that your setup may be good for you being stuck at a desk, using a desktop computer, and don't move your stuff about or need portability like i do, but my needs are totally different, so you need to get over yourself and just respect my needs, and stop taking topics off on a completely different tangent like you are.

Also, i still don't get your argument about Laptops and desktop computers, they are completely different beasts, i buy a new laptop every 2 years, i buy the best possible laptop that suits my needs so i don't need to upgrade it, and even if i had a desktop PC i would still build the best possible system that suits my needs and only upgrade parts when the hardware that i have is not able to deal with my needs.

As i said, i need total portability with all of my computing needs, so having a box full of hard drives set up in a RAID configuration and needing to be plugged into the mains power is not what i need for storage, and i would never build another desktop PC again, it too does not suit my needs for having a fully portable system.

You started this thread with a question: Any thoughts on this, are there any real negatives or pitfalls that would possibly make me reconsider this task.
Now you're getting your knickers in a twist because people have expressed their views on the negatives and pitfalls.
To top that off, you knew from the start what you wanted to do: Compress all your videos and put more of them into less space. The End.
Goodbye and good luck. You're on my block list.

Oh wow, how dam childish, you can choose to block me, it makes no difference to me, and the only thing that i get my nickers in a twist is over Ron Spencer taking this topic way off tangent by moving it to a debate over my storage needs, when he should at least respect the way that i want it instead of trying to continually force the issue.

[jagabo]

I already said that i played the 720p AVC files on my 65" 4k TV and then played the HEVC output and i see absolutely no difference, you might see it, but i can't, and i showed the same files to 3 other people who was here, and they too could not tell the difference

Try re-encoding this video:

https://mega.nz/file/9hUFVQZJ#Pz9jF3jNb7XOSSZmRpmBSGJ1OtJR6R3v-dRPZ5VHKnk

Watch it full screen in a darkened room. Everyone will easily see the difference.

[bridgyguy]

Try re-encoding this video:
https://mega.nz/file/9hUFVQZJ#Pz9jF3jNb7XOSSZmRpmBSGJ1OtJR6R3v-dRPZ5VHKnk
Watch it full screen in a darkened room. Everyone will easily see the difference.

What do you want me to re-encode that 1080p HEVC file to ?

When i said that i play the 720p AVC files on my 65" 4k TV and then play the HEVC version and i see no difference, these were encoded from 720p AVC source files, the same applies if i recode my 1080p AVC files to 1080p HEVC, i see no quality drop with my eyes, if i was dropping from 1080p AVC to 720p HEVC then yes there will be a drop in quality.

I am converting all these 1080p and 720p AVC files to HEVC using their native resolutions, not dropping or increasing them.

If i was to recode your 1080p HEVC file with my software it will do a smart render (using one of the built in HEVC presets) which will not do anything to the file at all, unless i force a recode to 1080p using a different bitrate, or i drop it from 1080p HEVC to 720p HEVC, then it will obviously do a recode, but the output file is definitely going to be a lot worse.

EDIT: i note that your file is 10bit, my Video ReDo Pro will import 10bit HEVC and AVC files, but at the moment it does not support output to 10bit, so i just forced a recode to 1080p HEVC in 8 bit, using the same bitrate as the file you posted.

https://ln.sync.com/dl/56998d380/h7fk9igb-pa4xyk4a-causcr79-hb6eh5i7

I also did a recode using Vidcoder as well.

https://ln.sync.com/dl/f3376d7d0/iv8vxewn-9u5ut7dv-qevi8fzr-ucnhzg7g

The developers of Video ReDo are working on 10bit output right now, so we should be getting this feature very soon, been a long time coming, Vidcoder also recoded the 10bit file to 8bit as well, not sure if that one support 10bit output.