640x480 Vs 720x576 for Hi8 capture, and some other questions...

[Heyho]

I'm in the process of finally converting some 20 year old+ video8 and Hi8 tapes. Having attempted this about 10 years ago on a Windows system, I gave up due to constant audio sync problems.

I recently picked up a cheap easycap device, plugged it into my current Linux system, and was surprised at how easily I could capture using VLC, with no sync problems, and directly to Mjpeg.

One thing I have noticed is that the max resolution the hardware will output appears to be 640x480.

So, now I'm actually getting what appear to me to be pretty good results, I'm now (as usual) fretting about whether or not there might be improvements to be had.

The setup is a Sony CCD-TR478E, via s-video and RCA audio into the easycap. Software is VLC running on Linux Mint 20.

I understand that the resolution is likely a combination of the hardware and drivers, and that there are many different versions of the easycap with various chipsets.

Is it worth me chasing a different capture device which will give me full PAL resolution, and would I see any significant increase in quality as a result?

[DB83]

Quality can be considered a combination of resolution and, more importantly, bitrate plus codec (mjpeg is not AFAIK an efficient codec - was using that 20+ years ago). And, yes, your hardware/drivers/capture software combo will play their part.


Your OS may well be the final throttle since I do not think that many devices etc. support Linux.

[Heyho]

Having just tried on a windows 10 machine, it looks like it's the hardware itself limiting the resolution. Can't find the listing for the one I bought, but most other listings appear to suggest 720x576 is possible. Maybe I'll take a punt and hope I get a different chipset.

As far as the codec is concerned, yes, it's pretty old, but it preserves every frame AFAIK, and although I understand it's not lossless it will be easier for cutting and editing. Besides, I don't think I have much choice.

[dellsam34]

It could be a OS or software limitation, If you want full resolution you will have to try Windows, But again Windows may bring back the audio sync problem that you had before, Linux is a lean OS and that explains why you didn't get that problem, So before you go out and get another piece of hardware find out first why you are limited to a computer resolution instead of a video resolution of 720x576.

AVI lossless 4:2:2 is the best format to edit from.

[DB83]

VLC does NOT directly capture. It CONVERTS the raw stream in to a selected container/codec. Actually ALL capture software does this.


I have used vlc a few time and found it a PITA for this purpose - even more complex than vdub.


Video/audio sync is a hardware issue >> Signal issues from vcr to capture device to PC plus, generally, using the same HDD as the OS.


So I concur. You must establish just why you have ended with 640*480. The one test I did with my Hauppauge I ended with 720*576. When I tried again today with a different configuration I ended with 360*288.

[Heyho]

Maybe I should clarify. My experience with windows was a long time ago, before the days of fast multicore processors. I've been a Linux user for over 10 years now, and read about using VLC in conjunction with the generic easycap devices, gave it a try and was surprised with how easy it was and how good the results were.

Only now I've taken a closer look have I noticed the resolution problem and had a dig around as to why it's happening.

In my second post you can see I've tried the easycap device on a Windows 10 installation, and using VLC again, although I have many more resolutions to choose from, the highest is still 640x480.

The main problem I have is a lack of time. Tomorrow I'll get vdub running on my windows machine and have a further tinker around. Thanks for all the input so far.

[oln]

If you want to check what's supported and such on linux, qv4l2 is a useful program (though it doesn't have a propeer capture function). Capturing itself on linux you can use ffmpeg for more control. A fair number of capture cards, especially older ones, are supported out of the box.

[Heyho]

I mostly use the terminal for everyday tasks, and was aware that ffmpeg was something else I should try, along with gstreamer, so that is on the list along with vdub on windows.

The main unknown is the easycap - the linuxtv page lists 4 different chipsets, and mine is different again. I read somewhere that there are at least 6 different chipsets, and there's no real information regarding what is achievable with each, let alone with different operating systems.

It may even be the case that it won't provide an uncompressed stream.

[DB83]

Again.


The resolution should be a restriction of the software (vlc) and not the hardware (capture device)


Yet, unless vlc for Linux is significantly different to vlc for Windows, I fail to see any direct option to select an output resolution unless the codec throttles that.


Again, any capture, device though its driver, merely converts an analogue signal to a digital stream as determined through the various standards quoted in these forums. 720*576 is the standard for PAL. 640*480 is an output resolution removing the potential confusion between 720*576 which is not native 4:3 and 640*480 which is - in fact a PAL source should give you an option of 768*576 (do the maths)

[Heyho]

If you want to check what's supported and such on linux, qv4l2 is a useful program (though it doesn't have a propeer capture function). Capturing itself on linux you can use ffmpeg for more control. A fair number of capture cards, especially older ones, are supported out of the box.

qv4l2 gives me:


[Attachment 57824 - Click to enlarge]

Which seems to tally with both VLC and OBS.

And agrees with the discussion here:

https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-media/msg100890.html

[DB83]

And you check if this is a restriction of the OS(or that software) by running the device, even with the provided software (even the cheapest should come with something), on a Windows system.


Noted that with the exception of 640*480 all these resolutions are VCD or half of it.


BTW OBS is NOT a suggested analogue capture software.

[Heyho]

I don't have the original software, if it even came with any. I've just tried in a Windows machine, with the following results.


[Attachment 57827 - Click to enlarge]

This particular Easycap has the Arcmicro chipset, which appears incapable of outputting anything other than 640x480 mjpeg. I just checked my eBay purchase history, and I paid £6 for it 4 years ago. I've been using it to cast live video from a birdbox camera across my home network, which it does well.

If you can suggest any other Windows software to test with, I will try, but I think I'm on a hiding to nothing with this device. Having said that, what it can do for £6 is pretty good.

[DB83]

What I fail to understand is why the Video Standard is greyed out in the above.


Also you are capturing (I assume) PAL sources so you certainly do not want 60 fps.


And why is mjpeg the only compression option ?


See what AmarecTV gives you (read the comments about version before downloading/installing)


And there is still vdub to consider.

[DB83]

I have now re-read your comments with your screencap.


Yet I am still puzzled. How have you installed it on a Windows Machine without the appropriate driver (should have come on the same disk as the software). Installing random drivers found on the net, especially for Easycraps (that is what they are referred to around here), is asking for trouble.


Yes. Hardwired capture devices do exist and I do seem to recall some posts about Easycraps capturing mjpeg using the supplied software. Yet I still considered that a limitation of the software and not the hardware.


The only capture device I can recc, since I use one, is an Hauppauge USB-Live2. That will cost you somewhat more that the six quid you paid.

[Heyho]

I'd not set anything, that was exactly how the boxes were populated. I know I want 25fps for what I'm doing. Mjpeg does seem to be what the device outputs regardless of OS or application. A similar thread on an astronomy forum from a few years ago:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/517094-usb-capture-device-that-does-pal/

I did also download vdub, but ran out of time to try it. I've used it before, but it was a long time ago so I need to familiarise myself with it again.

Thank you for the further suggestion. Hopefully I'll get a little further tomorrow.

[Heyho]

I believe it uses the UVC driver. I've not installed anything random.

[jagabo]

Change the Color Space/Compression pulldown to YUY2. That should give you other Output Size choices.

[DB83]

I just installed that software. Ran it with an active video source and the screen replied 'PAL-I' as the video standard.


There were 3 options under Colorspace including YUY2 and only two options for frame size 720*576 and 360*288


Of course a manuf supplied driver is installed not relying on any default OS one.

[jagabo]

PAL video should be captured as 720x576, 25 fps, interlaced (full D1). Some devices might also let you capture 352x576 (half D1), adequate for VHS.

[Heyho]

Change the Color Space/Compression pulldown to YUY2. That should give you other Output Size choices.

No option to change that, MJPEG is the only option.

[DB83]

Chances are that vdub will not work for you either if you really want to (and should) capture at 576i since that expects a DirectShow device/driver.

[jagabo]

Change the Color Space/Compression pulldown to YUY2. That should give you other Output Size choices.

No option to change that, MJPEG is the only option.

You should get another capture device.

[Heyho]

Change the Color Space/Compression pulldown to YUY2. That should give you other Output Size choices.

No option to change that, MJPEG is the only option.

You should get another capture device.

Already on the case. It would seem that the Arkmicro Easycap should be renamed EasilyCrappiest.

Still, it can now go back to bird box duties as it's almost nesting season

[lordsmurf]

Easycap has long been referred to as an Easycrap.
And Elgato is Elcrapo.

Both earned nicknames.

[Heyho]

After a little research, I took a punt on a Mygica Capit. Arrived in proper retail packaging, albeit with some Chenglish on the side. I've had zero problems with my Geniatech DVBT2 tuners in my TVheadend setup, so thought I'd see how it went. Also uses the same Conexant chip as the Hauppauge usb live2.

A quick and dirty 5 second recording using VLC gives me the PAL cature resolution I was hoping for. Thanks for the help guys.


[Attachment 57849 - Click to enlarge]

[dellsam34]

Easycap has long been referred to as an Easycrap.
And Elgato is Elcrapo.

Both earned nicknames.

Next time you don't have to type it in, Just link this picture:

[Heyho]

Well, the celebrations were somewhat premature.

The device captures at the correct resolution, but the S-video input doesn't work properly - it's slightly squished horizontally and black and white! Probably a driver problem.

Not an issue, I have enough parts to build a dedicated system to run Windows just to get these tapes digitised.

[DB83]

If you are building, you will be better off running Win7 than 'chancing your arm' with Win10 >> I only saw one user review for that device and the writer claimed it did not work (but that could also be a case of a bad workmen blaming his tools)


As for the s-video do also ensure you do not have a bent pin.

[Heyho]

No bent pins, plugged the other device back in and it's colour again via S-video.

You inadvertently answered my next question... I was going to ask whether to use 7 or even XP. I'll go with 7 as per your recommendations.

[lordsmurf]

Just remember this:
While you keep screwing around with Chinese crap, I'm busy capturing video (and in quality).

"Mygica Capit" is yet another name for a cheap Chinese "grabber" device. More generic Conexant-chipped junk.
- you will have problems
- the quality will suck