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  1. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    So when DO you want to use bob/separate if you can tell by just checking the video without filters?
    It doesn't hurt to always bob it or separate the fields, but I usually just open the unfiltered video to check it. If there's anything peculiar about it, I'll put on a Yadif(Mode=1) to have a further look.
    I wonder what will happen if delay is 69ms. Will AviSynth create 64ms delay, or It has to be a rounded number for it to actually do anything.
    My guess is a 64ms delay - the closest multiple of 32ms. Just a guess, though. I always work on audio so I convert first to WAV audio with any delay taken into account.
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  2. I do both. I look at the video as it comes out of the decoder (woven fields) and also with a Bob().

    I think the 32ms audio delay granularity restriction is only with VOB.
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  3. I do both. I look at the video as it comes out of the decoder (woven fields) and also with a Bob().
    It doesn't hurt to always bob it or separate the fields, but I usually just open the unfiltered video to check it. If there's anything peculiar about it, I'll put on a Yadif(Mode=1) to have a further look.
    But in the video I sent, there was duplicated 5 frame while the video was encoded, and 2-2-2-4 after Bob(). Why the results differ? and how does one know which is the correct? Also - How can one know this a progressive and not a strange pull down of a-b-c-d-e-e? experience? I wasn't even aware you can/should IVTC progressive content.

    And is it because it's progressive the frames looks unfocused? because someone already did a bad conversion? this video looks way worse compare to the other.

    Thank you again
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  4. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    I do both. I look at the video as it comes out of the decoder (woven fields) and also with a Bob().
    It doesn't hurt to always bob it or separate the fields, but I usually just open the unfiltered video to check it. If there's anything peculiar about it, I'll put on a Yadif(Mode=1) to have a further look.
    But in the video I sent, there was duplicated 5 frame while the video was encoded, and 2-2-2-4 after Bob(). Why the results differ?
    They don't differ. I said "a duplicate frame every 5th frame" , ie, without bobbing I see ABCDD, the 5th frame is a duplicate of the 4th, and all progressive (no combing). After bobbing you're seeing AABBCCDDDD, a 2:2:2:4 repeat pattern. Exactly the same thing.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    How can one know this a progressive and not a strange pull down of a-b-c-d-e-e? experience?
    Look at the frames without bobbing. There is no combing during motion.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    I wasn't even aware you can/should IVTC progressive content.
    In this case you only need to decimate, eliminate the duplicates, restore the original 24p film.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    And is it because it's progressive the frames looks unfocused? because someone already did a bad conversion? this video looks way worse compare to the other.
    Someone resized this video vertically with SeparateFields().WhateverResize().Weave(). That creates the artifacts you're seeing on horizontal edges/lines.
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  5. Exactly the same thing.
    Ohhh, I see it now!

    Someone resized this video vertically with SeparateFields().WhateverResize().Weave()
    It's funny really. That commercial DVDs got converting wrong

    So I'm done with the NTSC DVDs, and has PAL now. Black bars at the video I shared, suggest this is NTSC converting to PAL. Also, quick google showed is an Anime from Japan, which is NTSC-J. Because it's NTSC the end-results should be 23.976? What about "Real" PAL cartoon (that wasn't converted). It should be 25?

    I assumed NTSC converted to Pal is more complex to work with. I was able to pick steady frame movement to know what the pull down is. I tried normal TDecimate, and It ends with 20FPS. So I guess it isn't good. I used SRestore(frate=23.976), and while panned shots move at 1 frame per movement - some sections has blended frames. So is there nothing better to do except using SRestore here?

    What about real PAL Cartoon? can I use TDcimate on it?


    Thank you jagabo
    Image Attached Files
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  6. That PAL video is a little unusual -- it has partial field blending. If you look at individual fields you'll see some of them are clean but some have blending on only a part of the frame. This seems to work pretty well:

    Code:
    Mpeg2Source("Pal.demuxed.d2v"Info=3) 
    Blur(0.0, 0.15)
    QTGMC(Preset="fast")
    SRestore(frate=25)
    There are still occasional hiccups and a little blending. The blur is there because it looks to me like someone sharpened the video while it was interlaced (there is some negative ghosting).
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  7. Thank you jagabo

    So, I'm familiar with most of the code. I didn't know the Blue() command, and now you mention it, I indeed see the ghosting effect you mentioned.

    So answering myself by reading between the lines. It seems that even though the PAL video is NTSC converted into Pal, the final Frame rate should be indeed 25 and not 23.297. I also assume the true PAL videos should also be 25.

    Does it means I always need to use SRestore? or TDecimate(mode=2, rate=25) can work too?

    EDIT: Oh no. Seems like TDeimate want the new rate to lower then the current one. How can on TDecimate PAL?
    Last edited by Okiba; 3rd Mar 2021 at 09:41.
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  8. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    So answering myself by reading between the lines. It seems that even though the PAL video is NTSC converted into Pal, the final Frame rate should be indeed 25 and not 23.297.
    In this particular case 23.976 left many jerks from missing film frames. 25 worked better. I also tried 24.975 and 24.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    I also assume the true PAL videos should also be 25.
    Most, but not always.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    Does it means I always need to use SRestore? or TDecimate(mode=2, rate=25) can work too?
    With blended frames SRestore() will work better. It preferentially removes blended frames. TDecimate() preferentially removes duplicate frames. It will see blended frames as unique.
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  9. Of course, the other option with field blended videos is simply to QTGMC them. It won't look any worse than playing the original DVD -- usually a little better since QTGMC is better than other deinterlacers (ie, the ones built into TVs, DVD players, graphics cards, software players, etc.).
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  10. In this particular case 23.976 left many jerks from missing film frames. 25 worked better. I also tried 24.975 and 24.
    So there's no way to know without create couple of 10 seconds videos on multiple FPS and test it with your eye? fair enough. Will start doing it

    TDecimate() preferentially removes duplicate frames. It will see blended frames as unique.
    And how does one TDecimate a PAL video? Just TDeimate()? Because the end frame-rate is 20FPS, not 25FPS.

    usually a little better since QTGMC is better than other deinterlacers (ie, the ones built into TVs, DVD players, graphics cards, software players, etc.).
    Is TV build in de-interlacer also output 50FPS from PAL videos like QTGMC will do by default? Or 25?
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  11. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    TDecimate() preferentially removes duplicate frames. It will see blended frames as unique.
    And how does one TDecimate a PAL video? Just TDeimate()? Because the end frame-rate is 20FPS, not 25FPS.
    By default TDecimate() removes one of every fiver frames to go from 29.97 fps to 23.976 fps. But it can be used to remove M of every N frames with TDecimate(Cycle=N, CycleR=M). Or if you know the desired final frame rate, TDecimate(mode=2, rate=fps). Just keep in mind that TDecimate() removes duplicate frames. If it runs out of duplicates it will remove the next most similar frames.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    usually a little better since QTGMC is better than other deinterlacers (ie, the ones built into TVs, DVD players, graphics cards, software players, etc.).
    Is TV build in de-interlacer also output 50FPS from PAL videos like QTGMC will do by default?
    Yes. Just like NTSC TVs convert to 59.94 fps. That's why sports and soap operas look nice an smooth.
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  12. By default TDecimate() removes one of every fiver frames to go from 29.97 fps to 23.976 fps. But it can be used to remove M of every N frames with TDecimate(Cycle=N, CycleR=M).
    So if picking the correct Cycle/CycleR I should end up with 25FPS and not 20FPS like TDceimate() do?

    I'm running old DVD/VHS Captures into DVD now. But what will happen with modern animation. Computer generated animation for example, or Disney movies converted into DVD. where all is progressive and there is no repeats. If there's one movement per frame I should basically just convert it into mp4 without modifying it?

    I had a chance for example to see an cartoons in 4:3 size, but it had big bottom/upper black bars like it's kinda wide screen. Can I just crop those and set SAR to be 16:15 (PAL)?
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  13. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    So if picking the correct Cycle/CycleR I should end up with 25FPS and not 20FPS like TDceimate() do?
    When starting with a 25fps DVD? Why? If starting with an NTSC DVD and it's from a PAL master (and isn't field-blended), then:

    TFM().TDecimate(Cycle=6,CycleR=1)


    And that will give you 24.975fps. If starting with a PAL DVD made from an film master (and isn't field-blended) then:

    TFM().TDecimate(Cycle=25,CycleR=1)

    That will result in 24fps.
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  14. Thank you.

    I actually stumbled upon a DVD with repeated 25th frame. Cycle=25,CycleR=1 solved that.

    What about a situation where there is no duplicated frames (and it's progressive)? It means It's fully progressive and I should do nothing?

    I wonder if there's a way to know the FPS of the actual cartoon? When there's clean pull-down I can count, like 3:2 for example, I know what tool to use. But sometimes, It's very hard to find a pattern, because it's not steady, and there's pauses in the animation etc. So if it's PAL for example, I will try 25/1 to make it 24fps, find a panning shot - and verify there's a movement every single frame, and it's steady and does not jitter 2 frames. If not, I will try 6/1 for example that will give me 24.975, and check the panning shot again. I'm trying 25, 24.975, 24 and 23.976 - and I will pick the one that is most smooth.

    Is there anyone to know the right FPS instead of trying and guessing?
    Last edited by Okiba; 4th Mar 2021 at 13:16.
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  15. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    What about a situation where there is no duplicated frames (and it's progressive)? It means It's fully progressive and I should do nothing?
    That's why I asked "Why?" in my previous reply. Yes, leave it alone. Unless - UNLESS - it was speeded up from a film source. Then you might want to slow it back to film speed using AssumeFPS(24) (or 23.976) and slow the audio to match. I always slow mine.
    I wonder if there's a way to know the FPS of the actual cartoon?
    I've never seen any European-created animations. All the ones with which I'm familiar are meant to play at 24fps. However, sometimes you get portions created at 29.976fps, either progressive or interlaced, but it's fairly rare. Within the 24fps ones might be duplicate frames, as you know. To find out the true framerate, find a scroll or pan section where there's movement every frame. Given that, it's not hard to figure out. I make it progressive with TFM alone (if necessary) and look for the duplicate pattern. 1 in 5 means film. 1 in 6 means PAL. It's very difficult to know which is correct of 24/23.976 and 25/24.985. So I don't worry about it. TDecimate will give 23.976/24.985 for NTSC sources. SRestore gives 23.976/25. I usually leave it at that.
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  16. it was speeded up from a film source.
    Can one tell it? because I assume it's not possible to notice 1 FPS change while the video is playing. Perhaps by the origin of the video? so, a Japanese Anime will always be NTSC. So It should be assume 24 or 23.976 (if that's 25).

    I've never seen any European-created animations.
    Really? I don't know your personal background, but you seems to be very knowledgeable in Video. So that's kinda amazing really. I wonder why? there's just less animation studios in Europe?

    All the ones with which I'm familiar are meant to play at 24fps. However, sometimes you get portions created at 29.976fps,
    29.976? How is it possible if the PAL limit is 25FPS?

    So let me sure I get it correctly (excuse my verbosity, but there's a lot to grasp for someone without Video experience):

    If animated and interlaced -
    - TFM() it to turn it into progressive
    - Find a panning shot
    - If there 1 frame duplicated every 5 frame, It's NTSC, use TFM()TDecimate().
    - If 1 frame duplicated every 6 frames, is PAL. Use TFM().TDecimate(cycle=6, rcycle=1)

    If animated and progressive:
    - Find a panning shot
    - If 25th frame is duplicated, TFM().TDecimate(cycle=25, rcycle=1).
    - If there's no duplication. Do nothing (unless it was speeded up).

    * After TDcimate. End results should be either 23.976 or 24.985 for NTSC cartoons.
    * If at any point there's blending frames, using QTGMC().SRestore() instead (23.976 for NTSC, 25 for PAL).
    * If I have a PAL 25FPS video, It's progressive, and there's no duplication during panning shot, It might be a good idea to AssumeFPS(24). (how do you slow down the Audio accordingly by the way?)

    Is that about right?
    Last edited by Okiba; 4th Mar 2021 at 15:35.
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  17. PAL speedup doesn't bother me. I usually keep 25p PAL video at 25p so I don't have to reencode the audio.
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  18. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    How is it possible if the PAL limit is 25FPS?
    Sorry, my fault. After saying I haven't seen any PAL animations, I switched back to NTSC. I've seen interlaced anime end credits and progressive 29.97fps intros and also some of that in the middle of episodes. Thank goodness it's fairly rare.
    Can one tell it? because I assume it's not possible to notice 1 FPS change while the video is playing. Perhaps by the origin of the video?
    Yes, by origin. And movies are 24fps. Animations are 24fps. Or used to be.
    * If at any point there's blending frames, using QTGMC().SRestore() instead (23.976 for NTSC, 25 for PAL).
    Although the SRestore default is okay most of the time, there is such a thing as being field-blended from a film source. The very worst fly-by-night companies do that. Then you have to use SRestore(Frate=23.976).
    * If I have a PAL 25FPS video, It's progressive, and there's no duplication during panning shot, It might be a good idea to AssumeFPS(24).
    As jagabo mentioned, not everyone does that. I do it partly because I work with musicals and like the audio to be in tune as well. Off-key music is way more noticeable than slightly speeded up movement.
    (how do you slow down the Audio accordingly by the way?)
    There are lots of ways but I use BeSweet. It has a setting for 25->23.976. eac3to can do the job as well. And any WAV editor.
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  19. AviSynth can slow the audio along with the video with AssumeFPS(24000, 1001, sync_audio=true). The audio is synced by changing the sampling rate. So you usually want to followup with ResampleAudio(48000) to get it back to normal.
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  20. Is that about right?
    I assume that if no one corrected anything - then yes - that is correct

    I've seen interlaced anime end credits and progressive 29.97fps intros and also some of that in the middle of episodes. Thank goodness it's fairly rare.
    Oh yes. I have already seen it in a credit too. The credit were super jittery. I assume the FPS was different, but I didn't think it's a good idea to actually speed up FPS just for the credits.

    Animations are 24fps. Or used to be
    Just out of curiosity. Today's computer generated animation (where you don't have to hand-drawn every frame). Are they also at 24fps?

    Although the SRestore default is okay most of the time
    I have a single video I gave up on because it wasn't important that has crazy frame blending. I could see it very often. SRestore wasn't able to solve it, so I assume someone just did a mistake a long the road. Is there anything else I could have done besides Srestore? I can share it if it's interesting enough, but I gave up on it myself.
    EDIT: Oh what the hell. I'll attached it. Might be educational.

    AviSynth can slow the audio along with the video with AssumeFPS(24000, 1001, sync_audio=true)
    Oh cool. That's easier for me then using external tool. As all happening in the same spot. So basically as jagabo said:

    Code:
    AssumeFPS(24000, 1001, sync_audio=true)
    ResampleAudio(48000)
    How can I be sure the original Audio was 48000? if it was lower, wouldn't that be strange up-scaling the sampling rate?
    Thanks again!
    Image Attached Files
    Last edited by Okiba; 5th Mar 2021 at 04:49.
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  21. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    Just out of curiosity. Today's computer generated animation (where you don't have to hand-drawn every frame). Are they also at 24fps?
    Usually.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    I have a single video I gave up on because it wasn't important that has crazy frame blending. I could see it very often. SRestore wasn't able to solve it, so I assume someone just did a mistake a long the road. Is there anything else I could have done besides Srestore? I can share it if it's interesting enough, but I gave up on it myself.
    EDIT: Oh what the hell. I'll attached it. Might be educational.
    The video alternates between progressive frames for a while then 50:50 blended frames for a while. Since a blended frame is produced by averaging two adjacent frames, B = (X+Y)/2 (B = blended frame, X = one frame, Y = the next frame), X can be restored by reversing the procedure if you have a clean Y, X = (B-Y/2)*2. In practice, compression artifacts and limited granularity of 8 bit video make this unfeasible. For example, here's frame 11 (blended) restored by subtracting the clean frame 12:

    Image
    [Attachment 57669 - Click to enlarge]

    Code:
    src = Mpeg2Source("Blended.demuxed.d2v", Info=3) 
    next = src.Trim(1, 0) # ie the next frame
    Overlay(src, next, mode="subtract", opacity=0.5).ColorYUV(gain_y=256, cont_u=256, cont_v=256)
    That's the original frame 11 on the left, the restored version on the right. As you can see the result is pretty noisy. And frame 10 has to be restored by subtracting the cleaned frame 11, not the original frame 11, resulting in even more noise (not done by this script). The more consecutive frames you have to unblend like this the noisier they are going to get.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    AviSynth can slow the audio along with the video with AssumeFPS(24000, 1001, sync_audio=true)
    Oh cool. That's easier for me then using external tool. As all happening in the same spot. So basically as jagabo said:

    Code:
    AssumeFPS(24000, 1001, sync_audio=true)
    ResampleAudio(48000)
    How can I be sure the original Audio was 48000? if it was lower, wouldn't that be strange up-scaling the sampling rate?
    Thanks again!
    DVD audio is always 48000 Hz. Assuming your slowing 25p to 23.976p, AssumeFPS will reduce the sampling rate from 48000 to 46034. ResampleAudio brings it back up to 48000. I don't know how AviSynth's conversion compares to Audacity, Besweet, or eac3to.
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  22. Thank you jagabo. How this happened exactly? I assume it's a very bad convert from interlaced to Progressive?

    I don't know how AviSynth's conversion compares to Audacity, Besweet, or eac3to.
    Yea, I wondered that too. I guess I can do that with Audacity and test the differences:

    Code:
    video = Mpeg2Source("D:\video.d2v")
    AssumeFPS(video, 24000)
    audio = NicAC3Source("F:\audio_at_23_976.ac3")
    AudioDub(video, audio)
    Maybe manono can comment about the resampling quality of AviSynth compared to external audio editors. Two unrelated question to this - and I think I'm done with my DVD collection:

    - Crop doesn't effect SAR right? so in case I have 4:3 video with a lot of black bars at top and bottom (like a wide video was converted into 4:3) - I can crop it and SAR still be the same? (it's a very long from both sides).

    - We talked about 8 pixel from each site hint MTU content convert into DVD. Is that the case for any black borders? I had couple of other scenario, 20 pixels from each side, or 10-12 from the top or bottom etc. Every kind of black borders donates to MTU and should be treated like that when calculating SAR? (so every PAL DVD with any type of black borders is 12:11 and every NTSC DVD with and type of black border is 10:11)?

    - As far as I know mp4 x264 doesn't support multiple audio tracks right? so if I have audio for a DVD in both english and my native language - I am forced to have 2 identical files with different audio?
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  23. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    How this happened exactly?
    One way of converting 24p to 25i is to duplicate one field every 12 frames, 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown. 12 frames becomes 25 fields, 24 frames become 50 fields. When woven together 50 fields becomes 25 frames. This produces two little jerks every second (arguably slightly smoother than duplicating one frame every second). But you end up with 12 progressive frames followed by 13 interlaced frames (or vice versa). If that is blend deinterlaced you end up with 12 clean frames followed by 13 blended frames (or vice versa). This particular video seems to switch between clean/blended every ~17 frames implying it was converted from a film rate slightly higher than 24 fps (maybe the sped the film up slightly to reduce the running time, then used a longer 2:2:2....:3 pulldown pattern).

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    - Crop doesn't effect SAR right? so in case I have 4:3 video with a lot of black bars at top and bottom (like a wide video was converted into 4:3) - I can crop it and SAR still be the same? (it's a very long from both sides).
    Correct. Think of it this way: take a piece of graph paper with a square grid. Cut away part of the paper at the left and right. The remaining grid is still a bunch of squares -- the sampling aspect ratio (SAR) hasn't changed, it's still 1:1. What has changed is the shape of the paper, the display aspect ratio (DAR).

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    - We talked about 8 pixel from each site hint MTU content convert into DVD. Is that the case for any black borders?
    That suggest an ITU cap. Actually with PAL it's closer to 702 rather than 704, a total of ~18 rather than 16. And it's not always centered (which is why the wider frame is used).

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    I had couple of other scenario, 20 pixels from each side, or 10-12 from the top or bottom etc. Every kind of black borders donates to MTU and should be treated like that when calculating SAR? (so every PAL DVD with any type of black borders is 12:11 and every NTSC DVD with and type of black border is 10:11)?
    In theory. In reality video is often mishandled so you can't simply assume the SAR. If you can find something with a known aspect ratio, like a large circle or a square directly facing the camera, you can use that to judge the correct aspect ratio.

    Don't forget that one common film aspect ratio is 1.85:1, slightly wider than 16:9. Such a film in a 16:9 ITU cap will typically have small borders at the top and bottom as well as usual left and right borders. With an MPEG2 spec video it will fill the width but have small borders at the top and bottom.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    - As far as I know mp4 x264 doesn't support multiple audio tracks right?
    x264 is a video encoder. It doesn't support any audio.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    so if I have audio for a DVD in both english and my native language - I am forced to have 2 identical files with different audio?
    No. It's the container that supports multiple audio tracks. MKV, MP4, even AVI support multiple audio tracks.
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  24. One way of converting 24p to 25i is to duplicate one field every 12 frames.
    Thanks for the detailed explanation! Interesting!

    Don't forget that one common film aspect ratio is 1.85:1, slightly wider than 16:9. Such a film in a 16:9 ITU cap will typically have small borders at the top and bottom as well as usual left and right borders. With an MPEG2 spec video it will fill the width but have small borders at the top and bottom
    Oh. I wasn't aware ITU had 16:9 cap. So I assume the PAL videos with top/bottom and the unusual left and right were actually 1.85:1 and not 12:11. I'll check later on, I can probably modify the SAR value on the mp4 files without re-creating it.

    No. It's the container that supports multiple audio tracks. MKV, MP4, even AVI support multiple audio tracks.
    Great. I will google how to add multiple audio tracks. Though that now I'm thinking about it, it's slight more tricky. Because I I add the audio with NicAC3Source, and add it with AudioDub. I assume that if I want multiple tracks, I will need to do it using ffmpeg and let ffmpeg add the audio track... (unless there's a way to add multiple audio-tracks from within AviSynth and FFMPEG will respect it).

    By the way. It was mentioned Film and Animation are 24FPS. There's something I'm not clear about. Those days, when I watch a movie from my Cable Provider for example, I get interlaced content. The TV act as de-interlacer, and we talked about the TV basically double the FPS (so sport for example will look smooth). So if I'm at PAL region, It means the movie plays at 50FPS. But shouldn't it technically be played in 24FPS (or even 25FPS)? what about the my old Camcorder VHS tapes. They are 25FPS. But I assume there is no problem with QTGMC them to 50FPS? as the original content was taken in 25FPS?
    Last edited by Okiba; 5th Mar 2021 at 12:42.
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  25. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    Oh. I wasn't aware ITU had 16:9 cap.
    Here's the full DAR/SAR table assuming a 704 pixel wide cap contains the DAR (also true for 704xY DVD, rarely used):

    Code:
    NTSC 704x480 16:9 DAR: SAR = 40:33
    NTSC 704x480  4:3 DAR: SAR = 10:11
    PAL  704x576 16:9 DAR: SAR = 16:11
    PAL  704x576  4:3 DAR: SAR = 12:11
    for DVD MPEG2 720xY frames you have:

    Code:
    NTSC 720x480 16:9 DAR: SAR = 32:27
    NTSC 720x480  4:3 DAR: SAR =  8:9
    PAL  720x576 16:9 DAR: SAR = 64:45
    PAL  720x576  4:3 DAR: SAR = 16:15
    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    So I assume the PAL videos with top/bottom and the unusual left and right were actually 1.85:1 and not 12:11.
    Note that 1.85:1 is a DAR, not a SAR. A 1.85:1 movie in a 16:9 PAL 704x576 frame has a SAR of 16:11 (and small borders at the top and bottom). In a 4:3 PAL 704x576 frame it has a SAR of 12:11 (with large borders at the top and bottom).

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    I will google how to add multiple audio tracks. Though that now I'm thinking about it, it's slight more tricky. Because I I add the audio with NicAC3Source, and add it with AudioDub. I assume that if I want multiple tracks, I will need to do it using ffmpeg and let ffmpeg add the audio track... (unless there's a way to add multiple audio-tracks from within AviSynth and FFMPEG will respect it).
    There are several ways you can handle this. MkvMerge, ffmpeg, mp4box all have the ability to add multiple audio tracks once they have been encoded. Of course, ffmpeg can also encode audio.

    AviSynth only handles one audio stream attached to a video stream. That audio stream can have as many tracks as you want. In the past I've "stacked" two stereo audio streams into a single 4 channel audio stream with MergeChannels() and AudioDub'd them to a video stream for output. Then I opened the AVS script in ffmpeg and split the 4 channel stream back into two stereo streams for encoding and muxing. It's probably easier to just have two scripts and encode the audio separately.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    By the way. It was mentioned Film and Animation are 24FPS. There's something I'm not clear about. Those days, when I watch a movie from my Cable Provider for example, I get interlaced content. The TV act as de-interlacer, and we talked about the TV basically double the FPS (so sport for example will look smooth). So if I'm at PAL region, It means the movie plays at 50FPS. But shouldn't it technically be played in 24FPS (or even 25FPS)? what about the my old Camcorder VHS tapes. They are 25FPS. But I assume there is no problem with QTGMC them to 50FPS? as the original content was taken in 25FPS?
    PAL sources will already be 25 fps by one method or another. They are (smart) bob deinterlaced to 50p for display. If the picture is 25p each frame is displayed twice at 50p, so there's only 25 motions per second.
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  26. Here's the full DAR/SAR table
    Thanks for the cheat-sheet, saved

    There are several ways you can handle this.
    I ended up not loading up the Audio in AviSynth, and instead - change the Tempo from 25 to 23.976 with AudioCity, and adding those tracks directly with FFMPEG.

    If the picture is 25p each frame is displayed twice at 50p, so there's only 25 motions per second.
    So this makes sense on Progressive, but what if the provider broadcast interlace? It will send a movie at 25/24FPS, that should - like animation, be played at 25/24FPS. But wouldn't the TV de-interlace is into 50FPS? so any movie (no matter if It was made in Europe or in the US - I should also assume 24fps?

    I'm asking because my VHS Camcorder footage is 25fps interlaced. After de-interlacing it with QTGMC, I get 50FPS - which mostly look great, but some hard turns with the camera make me a bit disoriented as a watcher - like It should actually be 25.
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  27. Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    but what if the provider broadcast interlace? It will send a movie at 25/24FPS, that should - like animation, be played at 25/24FPS. But wouldn't the TV de-interlace is into 50FPS?
    There is no 24i broadcast. The TV will use a smart deinterlacer on 25i broadcast, converting it to 50p.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    so any movie (no matter if It was made in Europe or in the US - I should also assume 24fps?
    I hesitate to say all, but yes, the vast majority of what's shot on film will be 24p.

    Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
    I'm asking because my VHS Camcorder footage is 25fps interlaced. After de-interlacing it with QTGMC, I get 50FPS - which mostly look great, but some hard turns with the camera make me a bit disoriented as a watcher - like It should actually be 25.
    The whole point of 25i is to provide smooth motion at 50 different (half) images per second. 25p flickers quite badly during high contrast, high motion shots.
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  28. I'll stick with 50FPS for the Camcorder footage. Thank you jagabo!
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  29. Note that even with material that's shot on film some/all shots may have been slowed or sped up before and/or after being telecined. So may not always get smooth results at 24 fps. This is especially true of opening credits in TV shows and cartoons.
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