Re-Encoding Vob File?

[manono]

So when DO you want to use bob/separate if you can tell by just checking the video without filters?

It doesn't hurt to always bob it or separate the fields, but I usually just open the unfiltered video to check it. If there's anything peculiar about it, I'll put on a Yadif(Mode=1) to have a further look.

I wonder what will happen if delay is 69ms. Will AviSynth create 64ms delay, or It has to be a rounded number for it to actually do anything.

My guess is a 64ms delay - the closest multiple of 32ms. Just a guess, though. I always work on audio so I convert first to WAV audio with any delay taken into account.

[jagabo]

I do both. I look at the video as it comes out of the decoder (woven fields) and also with a Bob().

I think the 32ms audio delay granularity restriction is only with VOB.

[Okiba]

I do both. I look at the video as it comes out of the decoder (woven fields) and also with a Bob().

It doesn't hurt to always bob it or separate the fields, but I usually just open the unfiltered video to check it. If there's anything peculiar about it, I'll put on a Yadif(Mode=1) to have a further look.

But in the video I sent, there was duplicated 5 frame while the video was encoded, and 2-2-2-4 after Bob(). Why the results differ? and how does one know which is the correct? Also - How can one know this a progressive and not a strange pull down of a-b-c-d-e-e? experience? I wasn't even aware you can/should IVTC progressive content.

And is it because it's progressive the frames looks unfocused? because someone already did a bad conversion? this video looks way worse compare to the other.

Thank you again

[jagabo]

I do both. I look at the video as it comes out of the decoder (woven fields) and also with a Bob().

It doesn't hurt to always bob it or separate the fields, but I usually just open the unfiltered video to check it. If there's anything peculiar about it, I'll put on a Yadif(Mode=1) to have a further look.

But in the video I sent, there was duplicated 5 frame while the video was encoded, and 2-2-2-4 after Bob(). Why the results differ?

They don't differ. I said "a duplicate frame every 5th frame" , ie, without bobbing I see ABCDD, the 5th frame is a duplicate of the 4th, and all progressive (no combing). After bobbing you're seeing AABBCCDDDD, a 2:2:2:4 repeat pattern. Exactly the same thing.

How can one know this a progressive and not a strange pull down of a-b-c-d-e-e? experience?

Look at the frames without bobbing. There is no combing during motion.

I wasn't even aware you can/should IVTC progressive content.

In this case you only need to decimate, eliminate the duplicates, restore the original 24p film.

And is it because it's progressive the frames looks unfocused? because someone already did a bad conversion? this video looks way worse compare to the other.

Someone resized this video vertically with SeparateFields().WhateverResize().Weave(). That creates the artifacts you're seeing on horizontal edges/lines.

[Okiba]

Exactly the same thing.

Ohhh, I see it now!

Someone resized this video vertically with SeparateFields().WhateverResize().Weave()

It's funny really. That commercial DVDs got converting wrong

So I'm done with the NTSC DVDs, and has PAL now. Black bars at the video I shared, suggest this is NTSC converting to PAL. Also, quick google showed is an Anime from Japan, which is NTSC-J. Because it's NTSC the end-results should be 23.976? What about "Real" PAL cartoon (that wasn't converted). It should be 25?

I assumed NTSC converted to Pal is more complex to work with. I was able to pick steady frame movement to know what the pull down is. I tried normal TDecimate, and It ends with 20FPS. So I guess it isn't good. I used SRestore(frate=23.976), and while panned shots move at 1 frame per movement - some sections has blended frames. So is there nothing better to do except using SRestore here?

What about real PAL Cartoon? can I use TDcimate on it?


Thank you jagabo

[jagabo]

That PAL video is a little unusual -- it has partial field blending. If you look at individual fields you'll see some of them are clean but some have blending on only a part of the frame. This seems to work pretty well:

Mpeg2Source("Pal.demuxed.d2v"Info=3) 
Blur(0.0, 0.15)
QTGMC(Preset="fast")
SRestore(frate=25)

There are still occasional hiccups and a little blending. The blur is there because it looks to me like someone sharpened the video while it was interlaced (there is some negative ghosting).

[Okiba]

Thank you jagabo

So, I'm familiar with most of the code. I didn't know the Blue() command, and now you mention it, I indeed see the ghosting effect you mentioned.

So answering myself by reading between the lines. It seems that even though the PAL video is NTSC converted into Pal, the final Frame rate should be indeed 25 and not 23.297. I also assume the true PAL videos should also be 25.

Does it means I always need to use SRestore? or TDecimate(mode=2, rate=25) can work too?

EDIT: Oh no. Seems like TDeimate want the new rate to lower then the current one. How can on TDecimate PAL?

[jagabo]

So answering myself by reading between the lines. It seems that even though the PAL video is NTSC converted into Pal, the final Frame rate should be indeed 25 and not 23.297.

In this particular case 23.976 left many jerks from missing film frames. 25 worked better. I also tried 24.975 and 24.

I also assume the true PAL videos should also be 25.

Most, but not always.

Does it means I always need to use SRestore? or TDecimate(mode=2, rate=25) can work too?

With blended frames SRestore() will work better. It preferentially removes blended frames. TDecimate() preferentially removes duplicate frames. It will see blended frames as unique.

[jagabo]

Of course, the other option with field blended videos is simply to QTGMC them. It won't look any worse than playing the original DVD -- usually a little better since QTGMC is better than other deinterlacers (ie, the ones built into TVs, DVD players, graphics cards, software players, etc.).

[Okiba]

In this particular case 23.976 left many jerks from missing film frames. 25 worked better. I also tried 24.975 and 24.

So there's no way to know without create couple of 10 seconds videos on multiple FPS and test it with your eye? fair enough. Will start doing it

TDecimate() preferentially removes duplicate frames. It will see blended frames as unique.

And how does one TDecimate a PAL video? Just TDeimate()? Because the end frame-rate is 20FPS, not 25FPS.

usually a little better since QTGMC is better than other deinterlacers (ie, the ones built into TVs, DVD players, graphics cards, software players, etc.).

Is TV build in de-interlacer also output 50FPS from PAL videos like QTGMC will do by default? Or 25?

[jagabo]

TDecimate() preferentially removes duplicate frames. It will see blended frames as unique.

And how does one TDecimate a PAL video? Just TDeimate()? Because the end frame-rate is 20FPS, not 25FPS.

By default TDecimate() removes one of every fiver frames to go from 29.97 fps to 23.976 fps. But it can be used to remove M of every N frames with TDecimate(Cycle=N, CycleR=M). Or if you know the desired final frame rate, TDecimate(mode=2, rate=fps). Just keep in mind that TDecimate() removes duplicate frames. If it runs out of duplicates it will remove the next most similar frames.

usually a little better since QTGMC is better than other deinterlacers (ie, the ones built into TVs, DVD players, graphics cards, software players, etc.).

Is TV build in de-interlacer also output 50FPS from PAL videos like QTGMC will do by default?

Yes. Just like NTSC TVs convert to 59.94 fps. That's why sports and soap operas look nice an smooth.

[Okiba]

By default TDecimate() removes one of every fiver frames to go from 29.97 fps to 23.976 fps. But it can be used to remove M of every N frames with TDecimate(Cycle=N, CycleR=M).

So if picking the correct Cycle/CycleR I should end up with 25FPS and not 20FPS like TDceimate() do?

I'm running old DVD/VHS Captures into DVD now. But what will happen with modern animation. Computer generated animation for example, or Disney movies converted into DVD. where all is progressive and there is no repeats. If there's one movement per frame I should basically just convert it into mp4 without modifying it?

I had a chance for example to see an cartoons in 4:3 size, but it had big bottom/upper black bars like it's kinda wide screen. Can I just crop those and set SAR to be 16:15 (PAL)?

[manono]

So if picking the correct Cycle/CycleR I should end up with 25FPS and not 20FPS like TDceimate() do?

When starting with a 25fps DVD? Why? If starting with an NTSC DVD and it's from a PAL master (and isn't field-blended), then:

TFM().TDecimate(Cycle=6,CycleR=1)

And that will give you 24.975fps. If starting with a PAL DVD made from an film master (and isn't field-blended) then:

TFM().TDecimate(Cycle=25,CycleR=1)

That will result in 24fps.

[Okiba]

Excuse me for being slow here, when I'm saying "Starting with 25FPS DVD". I mean a DVD from PAL Region. The Vob has 25FPS. I have seen couple of varieties so far:

- NTSC DVD, 2:3/3:2 pull down, Just TDecimate.
- NTSC DVD from PAL master (which isn't field blended). I used Cycle=6,CycleR=1.
- The 25th frame is duplicated. solved with Cycle=25,CycleR=1 as you mentioned above. Is that a standard PAL Cartoon?
- No frame is being duplicated (I tested around 50 in a row). Does this means in a True progressive and there nothing I need to do with it?

I have a single video that neither TDeimate or even SRestore were able to remove the blended frames. In a videos I can't find a pattern in frame movement, I mostly go to pan section, try couple - and see if the panning is smooth afterwards and doesn't jump an extra frame.