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  1. I am new to this forum, so please forgive any errors in protocols.
    I also searched the forums to see if anyone had similar issues, but I did not find it.
    I have a number of 8mm video cassettes that I am trying to digitize.
    I am using an old Sony Video Camera Model CCD-TRV112.
    My computer (Linux Fedora 33) has an old Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 Video Capture card to digitize the analog output.
    The software I used is MythTV.
    I don't think I have a general problem - I can digitize the video OK.
    The problem I have is with scenes where I am walking with the camera while filming.
    The result is a flicker in the digitized video.
    The Sony camcorder has a little screen to view the video, and I don't see this effect on this screen.
    I also don't recall seeing this when we were viewing these on our old analog TVs (many years ago).
    This seems to be a phenomenon in the digitization process.
    I've tried various settings when capturing, with no luck.
    I am beginning to think there may be some limitation in the hardware - my capture card?
    Has anyone seen this before?
    Or, does anyone have any recommendations on any other capture device to use that would avoid this problem?
    I will attempt to upload a sample.
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  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Logic would suggest that these are time-base errors which only occur at the digitizing stage but.......


    these errors should also occur during steady/non-walking sequences.


    Which indeed leads me to the hardware ie capture-card. This is a legacy device which I suspect only had drivers for Windows and no such drivers beyond WinXP - certainly my own PCI slot WinTV card is not supported after that. So how can this even work under Linux ?. That it does the software could well struggle with the extra information sent for digitizing for the movement and there is some severe pixelation also present.


    I can not suggest any current device for Linux unless that OS indeed can make use of Windows drivers and that being so the same issue may prevail.


    Just my own opinion. Others may beg to differ.
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  3. Thank you for the reply!
    Sorry, but I forgot to mention the driver, which is ivtv.
    There is actually much online information on using MythTv with Hauppauge video cards.
    I am guessing the driver is not an officially supported driver.
    I would consider other capture devices, and even windoze capture devices, but in that case, only as a last resort.
    Thanks!
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  4. It is time-base errors, the capture card loses track of the non-visible parts of the video signal that tells where a frame starts etc. Recording when moving around would cause the video tracks being recorded to be a bit less stable, for a TV it's no issue but these capture cards lose track easily.

    Solutions have been discussed countless times on these forums, a higher end Hi8 camera (newer Sony Hi8 and Digital8 cameras are the ones most commonly used) that feature a built-in TBC would help. Passing the video through certain models of dvd-recorder, like Panasonic ES10/ES15 and similar (or a TBC unit but those are expensive and hard to come by) will also help.

    A lot of capture cards, especially older ones based on common chip configurations like this one are supported out of the box in Linux.
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  5. Thanks for the reply!
    So I guess I know what the problem most likely is.
    I've started reading about time based corrections, and what to do about it.
    You are correct, there is a lot of discussion.
    However, there is one thing I'm confused about and this may be a stupid question.
    As I originally mentioned - I do not see this problem on the little monitor of my camcorder.
    How is this being corrected?
    Maybe I am not understanding this (yet).
    It seems a potential solution is another device (TBC) that receives my analog signal before I try to capture again.
    How is this guaranteed to work?
    From my simplistic point of view, I already seem to have a good video that I am viewing from this monitor?
    I will continue reading.
    Thanks!
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  6. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by drumlin View Post
    However, there is one thing I'm confused about and this may be a stupid question.
    As I originally mentioned - I do not see this problem on the little monitor of my camcorder.
    How is this being corrected?
    Not a stupid question.... it's not corrected, the other hardware is just more forgiving, a capture device just needs a very stable (analog) signal, like it came directly from a live camera, or live broadcast by a tuner/reciever, the analog recorder device is a mechanical device, the headdrum which is putting the signal onto the tape, will have a slightly deviaton when the camera is moved or bumped, this is "baked" into the recording, and has to be straightent, an image is made out of stacked lines, will have 2 fields of lines interlaced into eachother making one frame, there are signals that tells if there has one line ended and a next one comes, if one field is complete, a signal tells the next field is coming, a signal tells one frame is complete, and should disapear (blanked?) and so on.... maybe i do not have this exactly right, but that's the general idea, so .... anything can go wrong while this is happening, but the hardware player is just more forgiving, and the correct TBC will straighten this, before it goes into the capture device.

    (when vcr's "came into the picture" i remember even the tv sets of that time needed correction for the signal of the vcr, the original broadcasts were fine, but watching a recording from the vcr, had the top part of the image slanted, newer tv sets where already adjusted for that.)

    A cheap way to replace a TBC is to try out some passthrough devices, like DVD-recorders found at the thrift store/shop, some cheap converters might work, but that is more mis than hit and will reduce quality, which leaves a DVD-recorder as a reasonable option, also experimenting with the settings of that device an VCR with build in TBC is also helping, but results might be various, due to age or device make (chipset) JVC, Panasonic, or Toshiba, are good bets.
    But there is already a lot of information about that available here, and elsewhere.
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 6th Feb 2021 at 06:40.
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  7. Thank you for the reply and information!
    It seems all these replies have helped me to understand the problem a little better - so thanks to everyone!
    You are correct that there is a lot of information out there and I am slowly sifting through a lot of it.
    It seems that when I get to some suggested solutions, I look around online for the suggested hardware, and if it is still available, it costs lots of money.
    I think my last set of questions were more of wondering if it is worth spending $1000 for something that I am not sure would work to correct the time based errors.
    It seems like it should work.
    I also forgot to mention (since it was a few months ago that I started playing around with this) that in my first iteration I was using a Sanyo VWM-690 VCR.
    The front had some AV inputs that I connected with the Sony camcorder.
    Then I connected the VCR output to the Hauppauge capture device.
    So whether I went directly from the camcorder to the capture card or through the VCR, the result was the same.
    I just checked the VCR manual to see if there is any mention of TBC and there wasn't.
    I also have a Sony SLV X317PS multi-system VCR, and again the manual makes no mention of TBC.
    I'll keep reading and looking around for any hardware that is available.
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  8. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Well you should not have to pay $1000 for a Panasonic ES10/15


    For the sake of clarity these work in pass-through mode. You feed you video from the original source through the Panny to the capture device.


    These work at field level and that should be sufficient for time-base correction.


    No vcrs, AFAIK, perform this.


    Most stand-alone TBC's you see for sale are full-frame devices. They should also work but tend to be more expensive than pass-through devices (DV camcorders can also perform this function). As mentioned, all relevant info has been discussed many times.


    I still stand by my original remarks since pixilation( or to be more accurate in this case total loss of pixels) is not a feature of time-base errors but then a weak signal can cause all sorts of issues.
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  9. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    These work at field level and that should be sufficient for time-base correction.


    No vcrs, AFAIK, perform this.
    Correct, However I believe if he will to use a Hi8/D8 camcorder with line TBC he will get a much cleaner signal and his capture card will lock onto the signal. Not all capture cards can work with composite signal, that's why S-Video is much more stable especially if line time based.


    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I still stand by my original remarks since pixilation( or to be more accurate in this case total loss of pixels) is not a feature of time-base errors but then a weak signal can cause all sorts of issues.
    I see two problems in that sample, One: frame loss due to the capture card not locking on the VBI signal from the tape and I blame that on both the camcorder and the capture card, Two: frame tearing, the capture software is struggling to lock on the frame rate supplied by the ADC chip inside the capture card and that could be the capture card chipset to blame.

    So I agree an ES10/15 could fix all but a good player is another alternative if it's cheaper or at the same price. Ideally both.
    Last edited by dellsam34; 6th Feb 2021 at 15:39.
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  10. Thank you for the recent replies!
    As mentioned before, there certainly is a lot of information that has been discussed.
    Unfortunately, I've not had too much time to process it all, and separate the wheat from the chaff!
    There also doesn't seem to be a unanimous opinion here in the few replies that what I am seeing is a time based error.
    I also am not opposed to spending as little money as possible for a solution, so I would not mind trying an inexpensive vcr with pass-through tbc.
    However, in some of the information I've read, some people do not consider these devices true tbc devices.
    Perhaps, they will work for my particular issue, so I am willing to give it a try.
    Thanks again for the time taken to look at my issue and offer suggestions!
    I will continue to read up on tbc (there's a lot to digest) and would appreciate any additional feedback!
    Thanks!
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