Panasonic DMR-EH52 & Grundig Video2000 2x4 -- weird video distortions

[phelissimo_]

Hello,

I want to digitize my Video2000 tapes with a Panasonic DMR-EH52 and my capture card.
Everything works fine except there are some weird distortions visible on the digitized video.
They are only visible when using the DMR.
If I connect the Video2000 directly to the capture card, my VHS player or my TV - the picture is distortion-free.

Here's how the units are connected to each other:

Video2000 ---(HF)---> DMR-EH52 ---(SCART-to-CVBS)---> Capture-Card (BT8x8 chipset)

[dellsam34]

Capturing thru RF is not a good idea, composite is a lot better.

[phelissimo_]

Capturing thru RF is not a good idea, composite is a lot better.

The problem is that the Video2000 recorder only has RF or DIN output. As I don't have any DIN-to-SCART adaptor, the only option is RF.
I bought yesterday such an adaptor and I'll see if it works better with it.

[Eric-jan]

If by DIN you mean s-video it should be easy to make yourself. see attached image.
the distortion i see in your video, looks to me like bad tracking, if this is not adjustable the player needs adjustment, or repair

[dellsam34]

Video2000 with S-Video? Unless the manufacturer time traveled, there was no such connection in that era.

[Eric-jan]

Do you have a 6 pin DIN connector on the Grundig ? (not miniDIN)

i did some research,

pin 1 = 12 volt automatisch kanaal 0
pin 2 = video in / uit
pin 3 = massa
pin 4 = audio in / uit
pin 5 = 12 volt automatisch kanaal 0
pin 6 = chroma, deze pin wordt alleen gebruikt bij Philips N1500 en N1501 video's uit de jaren 70.

this is from a Dutch website, it comes down to: pin 2 is composite VIDEO IN & OUT depending on mode, pin 4 is AUDIO IN & OUT
pin 3 is common shield of the RCA cable.
so you need a 6 pin DIN plug and 2 RCA plugs, and some shielded cable, this should give you composite video and one audio channel for your capture, TBC device, or your passthrough device.
This 6 pin DIN connection is a kind of forerunner for the SCART connection, because this connection has also the 12 volt switching options, for a connected tv, be careful not to shortcirquit this pins.

[phelissimo_]

Do you have a 6 pin DIN connector on the Grundig ? (not miniDIN)

pin 1 = 12 volt automatisch kanaal 0
pin 2 = video in / uit
pin 3 = massa
pin 4 = audio in / uit
pin 5 = 12 volt automatisch kanaal 0
pin 6 = chroma, deze pin wordt alleen gebruikt bij Philips N1500 en N1501 video's uit de jaren 70.

Thanks!
Yes, that tape recorder is old and still has that DIN-6 connector.
As I'm german I can perfectly understand the description above in dutch.
I already bought an DIN to SCART adaptor and it works good (at least when connected to a TV).
I just need to test if it makes a difference to the distortions with the DMR-EH52 because
when the recorder is directly connected to the CaptureCard or myTV, those "stripes" are gone!

[Eric-jan]

The only thing i can imagine is a so called ground-loop... this means the earth(shield) potential is not equal everywhere, what you could try is make extra connections between the metal casings of the devices, to make it zero.
The source might be the Grundig machine , not having a common shield connection.
or check the cables you have on continuety, maybe a shield connection is loose.

so the stripes are only on the EH52 ? can you switch off the modulator of the EH52 ?
I find the "stripes story" a bit confusing the way you explane it, because when connected to the capture card, they are not there, and this is what's it about, not ?

edit>
I think somehow the stripes are interlace problems, you need to make some changes in the settings of the image/display/filter options of the EH52,
check your EH52 manual for options.
Does the tv goes to composite mode when the Grundig is directly connected to the tv ? tv is a LCD or CRT ?

btw.... which capture card you use and which input you use ?

[phelissimo_]

so the stripes are only on the EH52 ?

Yes. When the Video2000 is connected via HF to the DMR the stripes are visible.
When the Video2000 is connected to a TV or a Capture Card etc... via HF the stripes are gone.

when connected to the capture card, they are not there, and this is what's it about, not ?

Yeah.

edit>
I think somehow the stripes are interlace problems, you need to make some changes in the settings of the image/display/filter options of the EH52,
check your EH52 manual for options.

I need to test if the DIN-to-SCART removes the stripes.

[Eric-jan]

Don't worry about the stripes, this is because there's a tuner and a modulator in the "chain" which shouldn't be there in the first place.
also, once you connect a scart to the tv, you must be sure in which "mode" this tv is, because scart can switch "things"
The EH52 can output s-video, RGB, or composite video over SCART(EV1), it has also has component (YUV i/p) over the RCA plugs
i guess you need the EH52 to clean up the video signal.
It's better to use the RCA composite s-video and audio outputs of the EH52 to connect, cheap SCART cables are no good, and could cause also problems.

[phelissimo_]

Don't worry about the stripes, this is because there's a tuner and a modulator in the "chain" which shouldn't be there in the first place.

I've now connected the player via DIN6-to-SCART and those stripes are still visible!
I changed every setting possible in the DVD recorder but no avail.

[dellsam34]

Remove the DMR then.

[phelissimo_]

Remove the DMR then.

But then I have too much dropped frames and a unstable picture.

[dellsam34]

I'm not sure if that DMR is equipped with line TBC, You may want to get a Panasonic ES10/15.

[Eric-jan]

Remove the HF cable(s) you don't need them anymore, don't use any SCART connection there's something going wrong.
check your "story" i see some inconsistencies...

Video2000 ---(6pin DIN to RCA)---> DMR-EH52 ---(RCA or s-video)---> Capture-Card (BT8x8 chipset)

[Eric-jan]

I'm not sure if that DMR is equipped with line TBC, You may want to get a Panasonic ES10/15.

DVD recorders have no TBC, only VCR's can have a TBC.

[dellsam34]

DVD recorders have no TBC, only VCR's can have a TBC.

Yes they do have some sort of line TBC'ish as well as frame synchronizer, But not all DVD recorders do, the well known ones are the Panasonic ES10 and ES15.

[Eric-jan]

DVD recorders have no TBC, only VCR's can have a TBC.

Yes they do have some sort of line TBC'ish as well as frame synchronizer, But not all DVD recorders do, the well known ones are the Panasonic ES10 and ES15.

"Some sort" is not a TBC, i have the ES35V which also does not have a TBC, but it's VHS deck gives a rocksteady video signal for my BMD Intensity Shuttle, and i have no lipp sync problems with long recordings.
Strange you say "some sort" because people here say from VCR's that have a TBC, say... it is not....

[phelissimo_]

I'm not sure if that DMR is equipped with line TBC, You may want to get a Panasonic ES10/15.

It's basically the same model just like the ES10/15 - the only difference is: mine has a hard disk.

[phelissimo_]

Remove the HF cable(s) you don't need them anymore

I already don't use them anymore, as I said in #11

Video2000 ---(6pin DIN to RCA)---> DMR-EH52 ---(RCA or s-video)---> Capture-Card (BT8x8 chipset)

This is what I did but instead of a 6pin DIN to RCA I used the adaptor I already have.

[Alwyn]

"Some sort" is not a TBC, i have the ES35V which also does not have a TBC, but it's VHS deck gives a rocksteady video signal for my BMD Intensity Shuttle, and i have no lipp sync with long recordings.
Strange you say "some sort" because people here say from VCR's that have a TBC, say... it is not....

This is misleading. While some of the Panasonics might not have what you call a true TBC, they certainly have very good stabilising properties. From the limited testing I have done, my ES-35V has the same "stabilising" properties that my ES-15 has. That is why you get such a good video signal from your ES-35V.

If you don't have the money for a proper TBC, an ES-10/15/35V and the like is a pretty good second.

[dellsam34]

It's basically the same model just like the ES10/15 - the only difference is, that mine has a hard disk.

It's either defective or not as good as the ES10/15, Not only it's not correcting anything it's making lines worse, Composite signal is hard to stabilize compared to Y/C (S-Video) because there is always some chroma interference that acts as a luma signal and throw TBCs off, If the ES10/15 cannot fix this line issue and I know a frame TBC will not you may have to either capture the tape without the DVD in small segments or send it out.

[Eric-jan]

"Some sort" is not a TBC, i have the ES35V which also does not have a TBC, but it's VHS deck gives a rocksteady video signal for my BMD Intensity Shuttle, and i have no lipp sync problems with long recordings.
Strange you say "some sort" because people here say from VCR's that have a TBC, say... it is not....

This is misleading. While some of the Panasonics might not have what you call a true TBC, they certainly have very good stabilising properties. From the limited testing I have done, my ES-35V has the same "stabilising" properties that my ES-15 has. That is why you get such a good video signal from your ES-35V.

If you don't have the money for a proper TBC, an ES-10/15/35V and the like is a pretty good second.

at Alwyn : I'm also very happy with my ES35V, do you set also the progressive mode, and capture by component out ?
big advantage is that the ES35V already has a VHS deck, and save you from the composite/s-video artifacts...

at phelissimo_ : i guess you're capturing via composite with your capture card ? can you change to s-video to capture ? which capture card do you use ?
btw.. Comb filter is also off ? please, tell me which capture card you use, and what kind of inputs it has !

[phelissimo_]

please, tell me which capture card you use, and what kind of inputs it has !

PINNACLE mirovideoPCTVpro (BT8x8 chipset)
It has S-Video and Composite input.