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  1. Member
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    Question I have. Do you have the internal TBC switched out or in on your Sony decks in that setup?

    Wow, what a setup! (drool face)
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  2. Is the DPS-210 taking DUB in and then using the s-video out? I feel ignorant but I didn't realise that you could use s-video out without s-video in... I would have assumed dub in means dub out. Is it the DPS-210 that's converting the color-under from the DUB connection? Wish I had a unit that did that...
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  3. Yeah it's converting DUB to svideo.

    Alternatively, there exist boxes that are just for the DUB > Svideo conversion. See this thread and this product:

    https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/1663-vtr-project-umatic-dub-conversion.html
    https://keystrobe.co.uk/product/dub-optimiser-convertor-for-u-matic-vcrs/

    Something i've been looking into for an upcoming umatic project.
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  4. That's a really interesting device. I guess the benefit of the DPS is that it's also serving a TBC function, which that DUB converter wouldn't.
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  5. True. But there's something to be said about removing as much of the vintage gear as possible out of the lineage. I haven't found much info on whether or not a common VHS TBC (Datavideo units, etc) will also work on umatic signals. Hoping it will, and probably end up trying that out eventually.
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  6. I don't think the DataVideo TBCs would handle Umatic very well. There are rack TBC units that were designed for Umatic signals (include DUB i/o etc). But then you're again caught in this odd situation where you've taken an s-video signal from the DUB converter and need a TBC that has s-video i/o.

    I'm currently thinking Umatic > DUB converter > FOR A FA-310 or DPS-575 would be a good workflow with minimal gear. Hopefully can test this soon.
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  7. Yeah please let us know.

    The other thing i'm wondering is how to possibly hook up a Domesday duplicator for capture, like the ld-decode thread. I see RF out on most umatic decks, but I assume that's just a coax out video signal, not actual head RF. Considering it's a miracle these days to get footage off these old tapes, a straight RF capture that can down the line be decoded would be a good bet, just to save the raw output.
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  8. Originally Posted by DopeNessMonster View Post
    It looks like the DPS-375 might've been a PAL only unit. I don't see much reference to it outside the UK. Bummer because it looks like it'd do everything in one box since it takes a DUB input.
    The DPS-375 SP is indeed PAL-only. Near as I can tell, the equivalent NTSC unit is the DPS-295. These two also appear to be the last DPS TBC models with native U-matic DUB support?

    Originally Posted by DopeNessMonster View Post
    Going from what lordsmurf said, I did another dig around and got a DPS-470 coming. I see on here that it's not highly recommended for VHS work, but we'll see how it handles U-Matic. DPS seems to have done a lot of work around that format, so they must've known a few things about it. But if it can clean up or at least cope with the vertical blanking issue then I'll be happy. The 470 does have SDI outputs and also handles analog audio so at least the audio should stay synced.
    Leitch's DPS units in general don't seem to be particularly well regarded for output quality:
    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/3651-broadcast-grade-tbc.html
    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/6551-leitch-dps575-vs.html

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Hmmm...I would partially disagree. Often, as a final format 16bit audio is quite sufficient for end users, compared to 24bit. But, depending on your playback system & display, 10+bit does have some distinct advantage over 8bit even as an end-use format (particularly in regards to banding). This still applies to SD, though it is more noticeable with higher resolution.
    And the benefits of higher bitdepth use are very clear, striking even, when it comes to intermediate manipulation (editing, mixing/compositing, synthesis/processing) of the data.
    This. The higher the bit depth you capture at, both audio and video, the better the results in post with things like DaVinci Resolve's color tools. Newer tools like VirtualDub2, AviSynth+, and StaxRip should take care of handling deep color. Garbage in, garbage out and all that.

    Sadly, every analog tape era TBC that I'm aware of appears to be 8-bit color once you engage the TBC circuit, no matter who made it or how much it cost. Something more modern like the Ensemble Designs BrightEye 75 should give much better performance all around, including deep color. Anybody know when 10-bit deep color pipeline TBCs started showing up?

    Just be aware that you'll almost certainly need a PCIe or Thunderbolt 3 capture card to actually get 10-bit. Every USB 3.0 capture card I'm aware of - outside Blackmagic's now-discontinued UltraStudio SDI and Intensity Shuttle boxes - are 8-bit only, even from the likes of AJA or Magewell.

    Originally Posted by nicholasserra View Post
    Alternatively, there exist boxes that are just for the DUB > Svideo conversion. See this thread and this product:

    https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/1663-vtr-project-umatic-dub-conversion.html
    https://keystrobe.co.uk/product/dub-optimiser-convertor-for-u-matic-vcrs/
    Keystrobe's Dub Optimiser should give much better performance than the ancient DPS-210 transcoder. At least the hardware won't be 30+ years old.
    Last edited by energizerfellow; 21st Jul 2021 at 06:39.
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  9. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Ensemble Design devices sample video at 12bit for higher accuracy and process it at 10bit, Audio is always 24bit/48KHz. Since I don't do a lot of post work I output as 8bit and in the encoding stage I bring the audio down to 16bit/48KHz, HiFi tracks comes out crystal clear.
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  10. If you happen to have a pro monitor with features like horizontal/vertical offset, underscan, or blue-only mode, here's how to use them as how they apply to video tape features like skew (aka tape tension) and tracking on U-matic, along with things like chroma phase in the proc amp:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYguu2D-khY&t=704s

    If the tension is off enough, you'll get a warped / flagging / hooked image, thus the "skew" name. But for fine adjustments, and what I'd assume to be more stable performance with modern TBC boxes, you'll likely need a monitor with H/V offset display.

    More skew error info:
    http://www.avartifactatlas.com/artifacts/skew_error.html

    Also, the oxide layer on U-matic appears to have relatively low magnetic retentivity, so can end up with weaker RF signals the further you are towards the outside of the spool on a tape that's been sitting for a very long time. This is when the RF video level meter and auto video level on VTRs like the Sony VO-9850 come in handy.

    The video level meter is also good for seeing when you've got clogged heads that need cleaning, which should probably always be done for a capture project like this.

    Looking at the OP's equipment photos and video capture samples, both flipping over auto video level and adjusting the skew a bit should help.
    Last edited by energizerfellow; 14th Aug 2021 at 18:14.
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  11. I know this thread is a few years old now but I wanted to hop in and ask for further clarification on the warping/DPS-210 issue. I use a DPS-210 for U-Matic transfers and have noticed some warping/hooking at the top of the picture in my transfers. The skew slider on my VO-9850s does nothing to mitigate this. Other tape transfers in other formats that don't go through the DPS-210 are just fine. Is the warping typically a transcoder issue? Would love to know how it got solved by DopeNessMonster!
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  12. Does the warping exist when you remove the DPS from the signal chain?
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  13. I'm not able to hook the machine to our monitor without going through the DPS on our transfer rack; however, I played the tape on the machine on the reviewing rack which doesn't go through the DPS and couldn't see any warping. I also played the tape on a different deck and monitor entirely, again without the DPS, and again no warping.
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  14. Sounds like DPS is the culprit. They're old and complex units.
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  15. Hmm, I ran a composite output into the DPS-235 to bypass the DPS-210 and resulted in the same skew error. Image
    [Attachment 77635 - Click to enlarge]
    Here's a screenshot of the skew in the top left corner; I'm not totally sure if this is an issue or just part of what the tape medium is like, but that is the skew/border we get on all our transfers.
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  16. Sorry I've let this thread sit for so long. I've poked at things a couple times but didn't really make enough progress to consider updating things here.

    I picked up a For.A FA-300 that has DUB input and output. Not sure if they only had those on the early units? There's no suffix to the model number, just FA-300. This unit might replace the DPS-210 in the chain. I got my Mitsubishi HS-U69 S-VHS deck working again and the For.A works great to fix drops on that, but unfortunately, both of my U-Matic decks now need service. One isn't loading right and the other is making an ungood noise in the main spindle. It seems like they're both just mechanical problems, so maybe I'll poke around a bit.

    edit: Not the main spindle or capstan. Seems to be one of the skinny guide roller near the front of the transport. I'll deal with that tomorrow.
    Last edited by DopeNessMonster; 6th Dec 2024 at 01:12.
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  17. Originally Posted by nicholasserra View Post
    Yeah please let us know.

    The other thing i'm wondering is how to possibly hook up a Domesday duplicator for capture, like the ld-decode thread. I see RF out on most umatic decks, but I assume that's just a coax out video signal, not actual head RF. Considering it's a miracle these days to get footage off these old tapes, a straight RF capture that can down the line be decoded would be a good bet, just to save the raw output.
    I've been wondering about that too. Not sure if anyone has done a Domesday capture from U-Maitc, but it'd certainly be interesting to try. It might get a little tricky in the file decoding part, since I assume the raw output wouldn't decode the same as VHS or LD. I've got the service manuals on PDF so maybe I could dig around a bit.
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  18. I dug in a bit more and umatic is supported and there's folks tapping the Sony decks. On my TODO list to try.
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  19. I've got a few U-Matic decks and I have access to a DomesdayDuplicator, but having some issues getting it to run with the current version of their Mac install. I might have to drag out the Ol' Windows tower PC and try it with that.

    This was the best I was able to get out of a mid-tier VP9000 machine versus what's on YouTube from a Umatic copy of Open Road Song from EVE6, so I'm curious to see if a Domesday Duplicator copy looks significantly better or not.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	YoutubeVsUMaticOpenRoadSong.png
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Size:	2.42 MB
ID:	85328

    In the very limited testing I did on VHS, I preferred the traditional capture, but that's been a few years and it could be that the decoding has improved some.

    I will say I've seen that very slight/gradual upper left shift on several if not all Umatic tapes and I don't think that's the machine or the TBC causing it. Line TBCs don't seem to get rid of it either. It's extremely minor, so I'm not really worried about it too much, but I'll be curious to see if a DD capture has it or not.

    This is the only Umatic capture I've seen that was done with a DD:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBzTNMD8sew
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