Second opinion on digitising VHS home videos

[Kaos-Industries]

I have the responsibility of digitising some (regular) VHS home videos my dad filmed in the late 90s, and need to purchase a VCR to do so (I've decided on a ~£20 USB capture card from Amazon, which is already expensive enough for me but the cheapest one with decent reviews: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Capture-Converter-Recorder-Transfer-Camcorder/dp/B08F4FFB8G/r...r_1_4?dchild=1). I'm an out-of-work web dev and know my way around the command line, so am fairly technically adept, but being born in the late 90s, I don't know a massive amount about VHS and VCRs.

I'm also broke af, so cost is a significant issue for me.

I'm here asking for a second opinion, as I previously posted over on the digitalFAQ forum, where it seems there are a lot of knowledgeable people about this stuff. This is the summary of how the thread went:

£30 is insanely cheap. Quality capture cards were routinely in the $300+ range in the 2000s, and fell into the $100-150 range in more recent years. Those sub-$50 cards are almost always Chinese junk cards with all sorts of issues, ranging from exposure to AGC on quality, and often with driver issues and poor quality software (use VirtualDub, not whatever junk it came with).

If you want any sort of quality from your conversions, without issues, then yes, you want a S-VHS deck with line TBC. A beater deck is in the under-$200 range, while better maintained decks are often in the $300-400 range, while refurb'd-like-new decks are in the $500+ range. In UK, decks are wee bit less costly, but not by much. Beaters are still under £150-200, while a quality deck imported is about 400€ after VAT (VCRshop.nl, but he does also sell some models on eBay sometimes).

But again ... buy it, use it, resell it. This gear holds value.

A workflow is VCR > TBC > capture card
You must have some form of TBC, it's not optional. You can try to scrimp by with an ES10/15 unit, for under £100. It's minimalist, and not actually a TBC. But if funds matter more than quality, it's probably the only avenue if really pinching pennies.

Remember this forum has a marketplace. Sometimes members have PAL gear in there. Sometimes I have both NTSC and PAL, though I rarely have PAL decks available. You're not limited to eBay, which has become a video dumping ground more than not (but UK is a wee bit better here, not as many scummy sellers).

Thanks to all for the input, I'm inclined to agree with those who say it's about priorities and pragmatism. From my own experience and experience of dabbling in many different fields, when it comes to certain topics that we're experts on, our threshold for quality tends to be a lot higher than the average consumer in that field. A regular consumer using regular hardware to listen to their music doesn't pick up on 10% of the things that an audiophile does, for example. I know for a fact that my mum would prefer being able to watch her wedding video, videos of us as kids, etc. over nothing at all, and I also think it's likely that she - and maybe not even I - would notice half the problems that the experts on this forum would, having never been exposed to that quality of VHS captures. You-don't-miss-what-you've-never-known sort of thing.

- You'll notice wiggle. The picture looks "alive" from movements where movements should not exist. Non-video people easily notice this defect. This is what a line TBC corrects.
- You'll notice a loss of audio sync, as caused by dropped frames.
- You'll notice color bleeding, color smearing.
- You'll probably notice chroma noise, aka the red/blue amoeba dancing all over the picture.

This is what I refer to. You don't need to be a "videophile" to see these obvious issues.

BTW, I think "audiophiles" and "videophiles" are mostly nuts, either making a big deal about a minor issue, or outright imagining problems that don't exist (ie, CD vs. vinyl).

So is this true? Will I really need to shell out for the more expensive hardware if I want to avoid severe issues like wiggle, audio syncing, bleed, smear and the like? It's not that I don't trust the user in question, but that forum seems to mostly be funded by its own marketplace where such specialist hardware is sold, so there's a natural bias against places like eBay and cheaper products, and I'm after additional expert opinions on these claims so as to make sure I'm not unnecessarily saving up a lot of money just for capturing VHS.

[super8rescue]

I bought a $20 USB Amazon capture card and the day it arrived, I threw it in the trash.

[Kaos-Industries]

I bought a $20 USB Amazon capture card and the day it arrived, I threw it in the trash.

How come?

[davexnet]

I have the responsibility of digitising some (regular) VHS home videos my dad filmed in the late 90s, and need to purchase a VCR to do so (I've decided on a ~£20 USB capture card from Amazon, which is already expensive enough for me but the cheapest one with decent reviews: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Capture-Con...r_1_4?dchild=1).

This Amazon link is not valid

[DB83]

Well lordsmurf is also a respected poster on these forums. He does know his stuff.


I can not comment on the £20 Amazon capture device since your link went nowhere. But most devices are based on 'easycap' or 'easycrap' as they are referred to. And that can also apply to units costing more than that sum.


I suggest you take some time and read the forum topics on here. You will glean what you need and how much you can expect to pay.

[dellsam34]

It's either you have a decent S-VHS VCR with line TBC/DNR and a form of external frame stabilizer (frame TBC or a DVD recorder as a passthrough) and you can buy the cheapest capture device you can get assuming not defective and use the crappy windows 10, OR A decent capture card from 2010's in windows 7 PC with proper drivers and you can use the cheapest VCR and also you can "almost" get away without an external TBC, It's your choice, The ideal scenario if you spare some cash is having both. On the cheap you get what you paid for, which what's most people nowadays want anyway, The majority of Legacy Box's customers don't notice how bad the quality is, If you are in that category I think you should be fine, Because that's exactly what they do at legacy box, A wall full of Walmart VCR's each VCR is connected to an easycap and capture mp4 on the fly, put into an SD card and sent out to the customer. If you can do that at home I don't see why the hesitation.

[Kaos-Industries]

I have the responsibility of digitising some (regular) VHS home videos my dad filmed in the late 90s, and need to purchase a VCR to do so (I've decided on a ~£20 USB capture card from Amazon, which is already expensive enough for me but the cheapest one with decent reviews: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Capture-Con...r_1_4?dchild=1).

This Amazon link is not valid

Apologies, fixed now

[Kaos-Industries]

It's either you have a decent S-VHS VCR with line TBC/DNR and a form of external frame stabilizer (frame TBC or a DVD recorder as a passthrough) and you can buy the cheapest capture device you can get assuming not defective and use the crappy windows 10, OR A decent capture card from 2010's in windows 7 PC with proper drivers and you can use the cheapest VCR and also you can "almost" get away without an external TBC, It's your choice, The ideal scenario if you spare some cash is having both. On the cheap you get what you paid for, which what's most people nowadays want anyway, The majority of Legacy Box's customers don't notice how bad the quality is, If you are in that category I think you should be fine, Because that's exactly what they do at legacy box, A wall full of Walmart VCR's each VCR is connected to an easycap and capture mp4 on the fly, put into an SD card and sent out to the customer. If you can do that at home I don't see why the hesitation.

Being a web dev/programmer as well as a general power user who regularly uses the command line for systems administration stuff, I take issue with the idea of Windows 10 being worse than 7, it's objectively better in most ways, worse in maybe a few - but I fail to see how the choice of OS would affect this discussion that much regardless. Why is Windows 10 a worse operating system for video capturing than Windows 7?

[Kaos-Industries]

Well lordsmurf is also a respected poster on these forums. He does know his stuff.


I can not comment on the £20 Amazon capture device since your link went nowhere. But most devices are based on 'easycap' or 'easycrap' as they are referred to. And that can also apply to units costing more than that sum.


I suggest you take some time and read the forum topics on here. You will glean what you need and how much you can expect to pay.

I don't doubt it and mentioned as much, but it's good to get second opinions from other experts before you commit to spending (well, first saving in my case) more than you currently have in your bank account. Tbh at this point I've done enough research on this topic to make me sick of it, which is a very high threshold for me when it comes to research, so I'm currently at the point of final decision-making stage.

[dellsam34]

Because in windows 10 they dropped support/drivers for the good capture cards from 10 to 15 years ago, You have one choice only in windows 10, a generic USB capture driver for the easycrap family and the likes, You might be a guru in programing but you are miles away when it comes to capture hardware. If you insist on using Win 10 you will have to go the SDI route like I did, Get a capture device that converts analog video to SDI and another device that connects SDI to your computer and use the well supported manufacturer's latest win10 application to store the lossless video on the HDD and encode from there.

Yep, the one in that link, That's pretty much what works on Win10, if you want to read up about the horror stories of such a device dive in, plenty of threads.

[Kaos-Industries]

Because in windows 10 they dropped support/drivers for the good capture cards from 10 to 15 years ago, You have one choice only in windows 10, a generic USB capture driver for the easycrap family and the likes, You might be a guru in programing but you are miles away when it comes to capture hardware. If you insist on using Win 10 you will have to go the SDI route like I did, Get a capture device that converts analog video to SDI and another device that connects SDI to your computer and use the well supported manufacturer's latest win10 application to store the lossless video on the HDD and encode from there.

Yep, the one in that link, That's pretty much what works on Win10, if you want to read up about the horror stories of such a device dive in, plenty of threads.

I mention my background only because of my experience with a wide variety of OSes, and I use Windows 10 as my daily driver for a *lot* of different use cases without issues, albeit with Cygwin installed on top of it because CMD is a terrible shell. Driver issues aren't Windows 10's fault because drivers are written by device manufacturers, so where Windows 10 drivers don't exist it's down to a case of legacy hardware or stubborn manufacturers refusing to employ some programmers and bring their hardware into the modern era. As someone who's also dabbled a fair bit in infosec and who loved both XP and Windows 7 before they were EOL, I would never touch even a network-connected Windows 7 box nowadays, let alone XP, because I shudder to think about the amount of never-to-be-patched exploits those OSes and drivers written for them are vulnerable to.

If the cheap China-manufactured capture card clones are the only thing that work on Windows 10 then it's because Chinese manufacturers know what OS the vast majority of the world is using and have learned to adapt accoridngly. I don't think this is really a problem though, because I'm pretty sure I've seen posts from lordsmurf himself on DigitalFAQ that list a few of the more expensive capture cards - both PCIe and USB - that support Windows 10 out of the box. It's just a shame that in 2020 compatibility with Windows 10 is something that needs to even be considered.

[dellsam34]

The caveat is those Chinese manufacturers saw the opportunity to make a quick buck and made such devices with money making in mind not quality, If they can sell a million and make $2 profit each, better than sell few hundreds and make $90 profit a device, It is a smart business model but the quality will significantly suffer. Like I said above, if you get one of those don't expect to just connect it to a crappy VCR and a computer and have 100% success.

Yes some legacy cards do work on win10 if you force win7 driver but it doesn't always work, I have a Pinnacle USB device that worked on one Win10 machine and didn't work on 2 other machines of my friends using the same driver.

[Kaos-Industries]

All of that is probably true and really what I was here to find out, I was just taking a small issue with Windows 10 being blamed for manufacturer faults as that particular field is something I know a fair bit about.

[dellsam34]

Microsoft is as guilty as those device manufacturers, Windows 10 is a tablet driven system, it is not suitable for capturing video due to constant notifications and automatic updates unless you invest in a powerful system. Anything happens in the background interrupts the capturing process and you get dropped frames hence you need a TBC/frame synchronizer, In Windows 7 you don't have to worry about that.

At the end of the day Microsoft or any other company doesn't have to give a rat about an obsolete technology, What we are trying to say is, a legacy task requires legacy hardware and software, it can be done in Win 10 but it will be a painful experience.

[lordsmurf]

Being a web dev/programmer as well as a general power user who regularly uses the command line for systems administration stuff, I take issue with the idea of Windows 10 being worse than 7, it's objectively better in most ways, worse in maybe a few - but I fail to see how the choice of OS would affect this discussion that much regardless. Why is Windows 10 a worse operating system for video capturing than Windows 7?

It's because you don't (yet) understand video capture.

- lots of hardware is OS locked
- drivers ceased updates long ago -- some companies are long gone
- drivers can be forced, but issues may arise
- Win10 has this bad habit of zapping drivers into oblivion at every update.

"Win10" is really a misleading name altogether. The Win10 from a few years ago isn't the Win10 of now. There are some radical changes, to the point of it being an entirely new OS. It's not at all like XP/Vista/7 or even 8. Updates are not mere updates, or even SPs.

Win10 was made for tablets, Facebook, games, etc -- not serious tasks like video, CAD, and some others. We need reliable tools, continuity, not something that changes at the whims of the techno-geek cycle of "what's cool now". There's a reason Linux is gaining market share, and even Mac is too. There's a reason that XP is now community maintained with backports and patches, and why Win7 will be too. Win10 simply isn't desirable for many tasks.

My IT background is a lot wider than some folks believe. I'm platform agnostic, having used dozens of OS over the decades. Each has good and bad traits.

These are just tools. Use the right tool for the task. Win10 for video capture is like hitting a nail with a screwdriver. It might "work", but it's won't be fast or pretty. And stuff may get messed up in the process.

If the cheap China-manufactured capture card clones are the only thing that work on Windows 10 then it's because Chinese manufacturers know what OS the vast majority of the world is using and have learned to adapt accoridngly.

Nope!

These cards are eMPIA bridge based, meaning the actual video/audio capture chips only need to communicate with the bridge. The OS only talks to the bridge, and Chinese cards use the generic bridge drivers. The problem comes in when the actual video/audio chips needed further non-existent instructions, passed to/from the bridge. Quality suffers.

Furthermore, most of those cards are using stolen-IP/reverse-engineered components, so it may never work as it should -- and again quality suffers.

Understand now?

[Kaos-Industries]

Microsoft is as guilty as those device manufacturers, Windows 10 is a tablet driven system, it is not suitable for capturing video due to constant notifications and automatic updates unless you invest in a powerful system. Anything happens in the background interrupts the capturing process and you get dropped frames hence you need a TBC/frame synchronizer, In Windows 7 you don't have to worry about that.

I'm not sure what you mean by "tablet-driven", an OS being able to work on tablets doesn't affect the capabilities of the desktop versions at all. Notifications - which Windows 7 also had to a lesser extent - are easily disabled with Focus Mode, usually this is automatically detected when in full-screen mode for a program, like most games, but even when it's not it's as simple as switching a toggle in the notifications tray. I find this is often the case when I see people shitting on the latest and greatest, it usually comes down to not understanding or even caring to learn how the basic operations of the OS work, usually just because they have a natural aversion to change and don't want to move from what they love and know. I've been there, especially with XP, which I used for a decade and was the first OS I really cut my teeth on, but in the long run the opportunity cost is always more expensive. Windows 10 has other issues, issues that most users will probably never run into, but it's definitely not on basic features like this.

Updates are the exact same - I see people complain about this a lot when it's so easy to delay updates for up to 35 days that it makes me question whether they know how to - and frankly if you're regularly delaying them for more than 35 days you're a risk to the malware ecosystem and MS is right to stop you. Take it from someone with first-hand experience of the malware landscape, it would be irresponsible to have the market share that Windows 10 does and allow users to delay patches for months on end, it would cause absolute havoc for both consumer and enterprise spaces. There are good reasons Windows 10's malware infection rates are so much lower than 7's and especially XP's.

At the end of the day Microsoft or any other company doesn't have to give a rat about an obsolete technology, What we are trying to say is, a legacy task requires legacy hardware and software, it can be done in Win 10 but it will be a painful experience.

Once again, drivers aren't Microsoft's responsibility, they're the responsibility of the device manufacturers to keep up to date, especially when those device manufacturers are charging £100 per card and their products are in high demand, there's no excuse for not hiring programmers to port their drivers, especially when Chinese manufacturers can do so along with their sub-£30 cards. Legacy hardware doesn't require legacy software - if the software is legacy it's outdated, that's the definition. The painful experience is caused by the device manufacturer refusing to provide modern software to make their legacy hardware run on modern OSes, forcing everyone using them to stay on EOL OSes that are a hacker's wet dream.

[Kaos-Industries]

Being a web dev/programmer as well as a general power user who regularly uses the command line for systems administration stuff, I take issue with the idea of Windows 10 being worse than 7, it's objectively better in most ways, worse in maybe a few - but I fail to see how the choice of OS would affect this discussion that much regardless. Why is Windows 10 a worse operating system for video capturing than Windows 7?

It's because you don't (yet) understand video capture.

- lots of hardware is OS locked
- drivers ceased updates long ago -- some companies are long gone
- drivers can be forced, but issues may arise
- Win10 has this bad habit of zapping drivers into oblivion at every update.

Interesting. Most of those come down to driver issues, although it's understandable where a manufacturer is dead or if Windows 10 actually gets rid of card drivers. I suppose I'll find out when I eventually save up enough for this project. Anyway I've gone off a tangent - as you can see this particular topic is one I'm passionate about because I run into it so often and it's basically become a hobby to make people aware of the dangers of network-connected EOL OSes.

It would be fine if we were talking about OSes that aren't Windows 10 but are not EOL, like a Linux distro or FreeBSD, or if this could all be done via virtualisation, but I find it annoying that thanks to the card manufacturers the only way to do this is by exposing yourself to vulnerable systems, even while you're also paying ~£100 for the privilege.

[dellsam34]

Well, you know how to use Win10 better than us, Get the easycrap and show us the captures.

[Kaos-Industries]

Well, you know how to use Win10 better than us, Get the easycrap and show us the captures.

I thought it was the non-cheap capture cards that don't work on Windows 10?

[dellsam34]

We want to see how the cheap capture looks like first. If you read post 6 again, either way wind 10 is not for capturing without a proper gear, so show us your programing magic.

[DB83]

Actually that capture device has quite mixed reviews - works for some and not for others. In fact there are reviews here of people who simply do not have a clue of what they are doing (using this for MiniDV capture FFS)


But you pay your money and take your choice.

[trotskito]

Do you have a DV camcorder from the early 2000s near you? If so, you could also try with it as a capture device paired with an inexpensive FireWire card in your computer. It only needs to support A/V input with its component cable.

Some users find this method questionable, as there is some color loss. But others do support it as camcorders use to have some stabilization features that help produce a decent outcome, and if you already have one it's worth a try. I can send you some clips if you want.

I also set a Panasonic DVD recorder between the VCR (a regular Daewoo deck) and the Camcorder, that helps improving the picture (for instance, by fixing damaged bottom lines in some VHS).

[DB83]

^^ While using a DV Camcorder as a pass-through device, esp for PAL content is acceptable (not so for NTSC), those wonderful people at Ms with recent 'updates' have killed many a firewire connection by removing legacy support for IEE1394. Yes, there are fixes available but it is another example of Win10 not being a capture-friendly OS.

[trotskito]

I'm using an old PCI FireWire card with the latest Windows 10 and haven't noticed any problems.

[JPMedia]

Interesting. Most of those come down to driver issues, although it's understandable where a manufacturer is dead or if Windows 10 actually gets rid of card drivers. I suppose I'll find out when I eventually save up enough for this project. Anyway I've gone off a tangent - as you can see this particular topic is one I'm passionate about because I run into it so often and it's basically become a hobby to make people aware of the dangers of network-connected EOL OSes.

It would be fine if we were talking about OSes that aren't Windows 10 but are not EOL, like a Linux distro or FreeBSD, or if this could all be done via virtualisation, but I find it annoying that thanks to the card manufacturers the only way to do this is by exposing yourself to vulnerable systems, even while you're also paying ~£100 for the privilege.

On VideoHelp and DigitalFAQ the advice given regarding capture PCs often suggests users not connect their capture PC to the internet. XP and Windows 7 have the best hardware, software, and driver compatibility so users can get the highest quality captures without exposing themselves to security risks.

You can get a used HP or Dell mini tower with XP already installed and a recommended capture card such as the ATi AIW 600 USB on eBay for less than £100 combined. Have your offline capture PC running in the background and transfer your capture files to your Windows 10 daily driver afterward. In doing so you're optimizing your productivity.

[Tig_]

Edit: sorry for the NTSC focus, totally failed to note your location. Hope some of it still helps.

Your perspective may be similar to mine when I posted VHS Digitization in 2019 — might be worth checking just for the links at the bottom. The insights on this forum plus well-referenced research by credentialed experts at established institutions = a powerful combination.

Anyway, that post was a consolidation of my research. Here's a summary of my experience since then:


1. VCRs

Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U > Panasonic AG-1980 > JVC HR-S3600U

I've tested ~1100 tapes in each of these decks so far. A general summary of noticeable differences in image/signal quality, tracking, etc.:

Every tape has played its best on the Mitsubishi ("Mit"), but ~85% played equally well on the AG-1980s, and ~50% played as well on the JVC. The 1980s have yet to outperform Mit, and the JVC has yet to outperform the 1980s. (Mit's a beast but since Tom Grant works on 1980s but not Mits, I got a second 1980 and reserve Mit for tapes it plays better.)

My goal is maximum fidelity to the original video while correcting anything that can't reasonably be otherwise corrected, so I use the built-in line TBCs only when necessary — so far about a third of the time.

I also tested ~90 tapes that were going to be discarded after capture anyway, in three consumer-level decks. They were not inspected, cleaned, or aligned — they represent the typical VCRs still around in many households. Tapes that had benefited from line TBC in the pro decks, played poorly. Those that didn't, mostly had tracking issues but ironically a "Sharp" was over-processed (posterization). Most importantly, 2 out of ~90 tapes got eaten (my pro decks haven't eaten one tape).

So I think a VCR with line TBC, that is established as a good model for capture, purchased from a trusted seller (like TGP in the US), is mandatory. Edit to recommend future readers consider contradicting opinions here and here — as mentioned my consumer-level decks weren't inspected/aligned/cleaned so I may be wrong here. I'll update this if I ever test that possibility.

2. TBCs

Philips DVDR3576H > Panasonic DMR-ES10 and ES15, DataVideo TBC-3000, and AVT-8710

(Notes: 1. I'll use "~TBC" to refer to true external full-frame TBCs and related passthrough devices etc. 2. I didn't test ~TBCs with the consumer-level decks. 3. I didn't try this, but maybe the Magewells could run on a PCIe XP rig with Win7 drivers. No idea but will test if there's interest — might open doors for some folks. 4. Some ~TBCs can "clean up" or "enhance" the image, but I don't use them for that because extra devices — especially ES10 — in the signal chain can cause data loss and artifacts. I only use ~TBCs to solve specific problems.)

On Windows 10, the Magewells usually need no help; 7/~1100 tapes have warranted a ~TBC. My Philips 3576 was most transparent while addressing the problem on all. It even cleaned up some artifacts introduced by other ~TBCs (e.g. dot crawl from my green 8710).

On XP, I only tested ~75 tapes. Over half required ~TBC; apparently the Magewells replace a lot of this functionality. The best ~TBC varied tape to tape — so on XP you probably want a variety on hand — exactly as is widely recommended here. I can at least say that the TBC-3000 never bested the 3576, and that I'd only use the ES10 where absolutely necessary as over-processing made captures look like Walmart jobs.

3. CAPTURE RIG

Win10 > XP

+1 on the security risks of an EOL OS. But I had parts (including an AIW 7500 and 9600XT) for two XP capture rigs, so tried them on 75 of my personal tapes. I figured if the tapes captured better to XP I'd find the safest way to go that route.

Since over half the XP captures required ~TBCs, they were more complicated and time-consuming, with ~TBC side effects baked in. Still "good enough," just not as clean as Magewell captures. XP vs 10 captures not requiring ~TBC were equal. Of course XP rigs are less efficient (more heat/noise) and add the step of transferring captures to better hardware for editing etc.

My Win10 rig currently has my usual dozen or so apps open, while capturing three tapes to UtVideo 4:2:2 via AmaRecTV while one instance of VEGAS Pro is rendering and another is open for editing a wedding video (my real job). Automatic Windows updates, Bitdefender Total Security, and DevServer are always running/enabled. I have not disabled notifications.

Though I've had no frame drops or audio sync etc. issues (outside of the aforementioned seven) on Win10, I don't know whether that's because I know my way around the system or due to something specific about my hardware or software configuration. It's nothing special — i7 6800K, 32GB RAM, a 1060 3GB — and I don't see why anyone couldn't do this. But others have noted real issues with Win10 in the past despite being power users themselves (just ask them) and of course I can only speak to VHS capture with my hardware — no idea how it'd go with cheap VHS decks or other formats.

4. EXTRAS

I didn't get a proc amp but did get the BJC S-Video cables and for all I know they could be part of why Win10 captures work so well for me. Everything's plugged into UPSs and a Furman PL-8C. There's been some debate about power conditioners' usefulness here, worth looking into if you have more budget down the line. I also have my VCRs on Vibrapods, which surprised me by eliminating some jitter on the JVC.

I keep the room at 65°F/35%RH, with clean room sticky mats and HEPA air purifiers rated for 5x the space. A clean, stable, cool, dry environment can help your tapes and equipment last longer, giving you more time to save up for a great capture setup.

MY PERSONAL CONCLUSION

Yes you can get best-possible capture in Windows 10, though maybe it's not for the everyman. Yes a good VCR and ~TBC are warranted. I'd recommend saving up for AG-1980, 3575/equivalent, and Magewell (but it doesn't hurt to at least try the capture device you have first.)

Regarding other ~TBCs, at the end of the day I sold my TBC-3000 and AVT-8710 for a fraction what I paid. I'd probably keep the 8710 if I were doing XP captures.

Your captures are what will most likely survive longest, and worth doing well. Right now I'm capturing video of a little boy who died too young, for his mother. I find this incredibly meaningful. If that sounds compelling to you and you're willing to dive deep into doing this right, it could become a service you offer to others so the equipment pays for itself. The equipment I actually use has paid for itself a few times over — plus the other crap I tested.

Some here will vehemently disagree with what I've said (especially about Win10 and ~TBCs), and they have many years of experience and who knows how many thousands of captures on me. Hear them out. I'm not here to debate or convince anyone of anything, no dogs in this fight and nothing to sell.

[Tig_]

Sorry, posted too quick and didn't note you're in the UK. I know nothing about PAL equipment but what the principles should be the same.

[Kaos-Industries]

Hi Tig, I really appreciate the detailed stats on your experience capturing so many tapes, it's reassuring to see someone who's done as much as you have on a modern OS like Windows 10.

3. CAPTURE RIG

Win10 > XP

My Win10 rig currently has my usual dozen or so apps open, while capturing three tapes to UtVideo 4:2:2 via AmaRecTV while one instance of VEGAS Pro is rendering and another is open for editing a wedding video (my real job). Automatic Windows updates, Bitdefender Total Security, and DevServer are always running/enabled. I have not disabled notifications.seven tapes.

Though I've had no frame drops or audio sync etc. issues (outside of the aforementioned seven) Win10, I don't know whether that's because I know my way around the system or due to something specific about my hardware or software configuration. It's nothing special — i7 6800K, 32GB RAM, a 1060 3GB — and I don't see why anyone couldn't do this. But others have noted real issues with Win10 in the past despite being power users themselves (just ask them) and of course I can only speak to VHS capture with my hardware — no idea how it'd go with cheap VHS decks or other formats.

For someone like me still on a lowly i3 and an ordinary HDD, albeit with 16GB of RAM, your specs are impressive, and it's good to see that Windows 10 isn't itself responsible for those problems. Either way I'll find out, since there's no way I'm going back to using Windows 7 as a daily driver just to capture. If I had the funds for a separate, network-disconnected machine I'd have no issues, but as it is I'll be saving up just to get the VCR and the capture card.

A question I want to clarify - is all that's necessary to avoid dropped frames in software capturing to make sure that none of Windows' performance components are maxing out? Namely the CPU, and the HDD for when the capture device is writing the file? So theoretically, if none of those are maxing out, dropped frames can safely be ruled out? I ask because I've been considering the more CPU-intensive Lagarith codec for lossless capture over HuffYUV, which produces much larger files at the expense of CPU. If my ancient i3 can handle Lagarith without dropping frames I definitely want to take advantage of the space savings it gives over HuffYUV.

Yes you can get great results on Windows 10, though maybe that's not for the everyman. Yes a good VCR and ~TBC are warranted. I'd recommend saving up for AG-1980 and 3575/equivalent. (The Magewell too, but it doesn't hurt to at least try the capture device you have first.)

The deeper I go down this rabbit hole of higher-end VCRs the more skeptical I become. Most recently I went through this thread and all of @PuzZLeR's responses in it, and @orsetto's posts in this thread more than 6 years ago. He does however recommend your better-performing Mitsubishi model, so you must be doing something right.

Since I will already be saving up for the hardware, and since it's gonna take me a significantly longer time to save £1000 than £300 (and assuming I ever manage to do so), I'd hate to be at the mercy of the varying consistency of different units of the same model. Where I am right now buying a mid-range JVC S-VHS model that is consistent seems the safest and most predictable route compared to buying a much more expensive high-end one.

Your captures are what will most likely survive longest, and worth doing well. If you do it well, maybe you could it to friends and family. That's what I did after capturing my own tapes. The equipment I actually use has paid for itself a few times over, and has paid for the other crap I tested too.

The tapes I'm capturing right now are of a little boy who died too young, for his mother. I find this work incredibly meaningful. If that happens to interest you too, maybe you can find a way to make it pay for itself and capture your own tapes at the highest possible quality.

That's amazing work and very inspiring, and I've considered the same thing myself since I have a few family members who've asked to digitise tapes from around the same area. If I'm not sick of the whole scene after saving up for all this hardware and capturing my own family home videos, that will probably be the plan.

[ItaloFan]

The rabbit holes are myriad and endless. You can second-guess everything, and someone will have a contrary point of view on every option.

I'm glad you upped your budget.

Any i3 CPU should handle Lagarith with ease. If your HDD can write sustained 8 MB/s, you shouldn't have to worry about performance. My positive experience with multitasking while capturing without frame drops on a system of approximately the same capability as yours is also based on Win7 and a PCIe capture card, though. Win10 & USB might be different.

[Tig_]

Actually, I meant that the number of captures I've done is a drop in the pond haha. More importantly, all on one Win10 configuration and in the past 18 months. Folks who've done this through 10x the years and hardware changes, are sure to have important insights I lack.

+1 to Italo regarding your i3 and HDD. I do capture to a Samsung 960 Evo, but I bet any modern HDD would do fine even for simultaneous captures. Which I only mention to suggest that if I can do three captures and a render simultaneously without issue, surely making one work smoothly isn't rocket science.

Unfortunately, even without CPU/RAM/etc. maxed, dropped frames are possible. They skyrocketed on one of my XP rigs when I tried to multitask despite <50% CPU and RAM utilization. Hasn't happened to me in Win10 yet but I'm sure it could, regardless of OS.

I've learned a lot from orsetto's posts here — my experience is a speck of dust in comparison. So far I've read some but not all of his and PuzZLeR's replies in the threads you linked. On one hand, PuzZLeR says claims of ES10 posterization "have been proven unfounded" but I've identified it (and it's not subtle) from my ES10 in blind A/B comparisons. On the other, maybe my ES10 is crap — I've only owned one.

Likewise, what PuzZLeR and orsetto said there about AG-1980s does not reflect my experiences. All my buttons and switches work properly, TBC/sharpening/etc. can be disabled, and the decks are consistent over time and with each other. On the other hand, maybe both will die tomorrow. And I did pay a pretty penny for units completely restored (all new caps etc.).

Also, the consumer-level decks I personally tested were just lying around, in who-knows-what condition. Having a clean and well-aligned VCR (and TBCs) is mentioned among the academic publications linked in my 2019 post, but specific models are not. Maybe those institutions just doesn't want to show bias … or maybe the higher-end decks truly aren't that magical. My answer has to be "I don't know."

Originally I was going to capture to Lagarith too. I'd recommend checking into UtVideo.