VHS to DVD quality issue

[cinemakyle01]

The first on is obviously a photograph of the TV screen -- you can see the Sanyo logo. I'm guessing the other is too.

The other photo is a screenshot from my laptop. The photos I posted are from a VHS to computer conversion.

So the second picture is from a computer capture of the analog video from the VHS deck, as displayed on the computer? Photographed with a camera? Or screen captured with software?

It's just that converting to a DVD gives me the same results.

As viewed on the TV from the DVD recorder playing the DVD it recorded? Or as viewed on the computer? This is critical because TVs are often set to increase contrast and saturation, computer monitors are not.

The second image can be made to look more like the first just by increasing the saturation.


[Attachment 56165 - Click to enlarge]

The second picture is from a computer capture. With this particular tape, I then burned in onto a disc after transferring the footage to a computer (so VHS to computer to dvd) and played the disc onto a DVD player and it still looks desaturated. Also, I burned something else onto a dvd using the other method which involved the VHS/dvd dubbing option and it caused the same issue.

[cinemakyle01]

What I think I'll do is try using the 3 VHS players I have with me and converting footage with all of them while also using my laptop. I'll post pictures of everything and I will try to also use the vhs/dvd combo machine again to make sure it's doing this with everything. I think it'll be the easiest way to get to the bottom of this.

[davexnet]

What I think I'll do is try using the 3 VHS players I have with me and converting footage with all of them while also using my laptop. I'll post pictures of everything and I will try to also use the vhs/dvd combo machine again to make sure it's doing this with everything. I think it'll be the easiest way to get to the bottom of this.

Some standalone units may have more than one connection to the TV. What connections does yours have?

[cinemakyle01]

What I think I'll do is try using the 3 VHS players I have with me and converting footage with all of them while also using my laptop. I'll post pictures of everything and I will try to also use the vhs/dvd combo machine again to make sure it's doing this with everything. I think it'll be the easiest way to get to the bottom of this.

Some standalone units may have more than one connection to the TV. What connections does yours have?

2 players don't have anything beyond the composite cables, but one has S-video and also outlets for component. But I should probably mention, I am planning on converting tapes for many people and I imagine many may be using composite cables. I want to make sure the converted footage will play properly through any type of cable.

[Sharc]

Could it be that the Combo found the VHS source to be oversaturated / out of levels range, and hence (over-)did some auto-adjustment to shift the levels to TV range within legal RGB values?
Does the Elgato drivers/capture SW (Vdub?) allow to set Video levels (Video Proc Amplifier?). Has it possibly been mistuned?

[cinemakyle01]

I'll get back with everyone very soon. I've been busy with work and haven't had a lot of time to work on this at the moment.

[cinemakyle01]

Hi, I am returning to this task today. I"ll post in a little while.

[cinemakyle01]

So, I put in a burned DVD of a converted tape into several players and I noticed a difference. On my laptop screen, the color is degraded, and it also looks that way on my flat-screen tv. I also tried a really old television that dates back to the 80's, and the picture looks fine on that tv (It's a Magnavox Perfect View TV). Could it possibly have something to do with monitors of newer TVs?

[cinemakyle01]

here is an image after using the Elgato capture device

[johnmeyer]

Since the video on the DVD is the same, the differences come from the calibration of the monitor; the connection to the monitor; and the difference in display technology. To take an extreme case, CRT TVs used a composite signal which, in the US, does a terrible job reproducing any color that is near the red end of the spectrum (it is not uncommon to see "fire engine red" suddenly have orange overtones). With modern TVs there can be quite a difference between LCD, OLED, plasma, etc.

There is certainly nothing you can, or should, do the DVD. It is not your problem.

[cinemakyle01]

https://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56705&stc=1&d=1610146604

[cinemakyle01]

I have an idea. I saw some users convert tapes themselves. Would anyone like to share with me their set-up? It might be easier than determining how to resolve this issue.

[jagabo]

A commercial DVD is likely to have more detail than anything you'll get from VHS tapes. Especially if you don't spend US$500+ for equipment. It's far easier to just pump up the saturation like I did in post #30. You don't need to go that far with the saturation -- I only did so to match the first image you posted.

[cinemakyle01]

A commercial DVD is likely to have more detail than anything you'll get from VHS tapes. Especially if you don't spend US$500+ for equipment. It's far easier to just pump up the saturation like I did in post #30. You don't need to go that far with the saturation -- I only did so to match the first image you posted.

What do you use to pump up the saturation? I did use a tool in the past to enhance the saturation, but it still looked slightly off. I guess any saturation adjuster in any software would be the same, or would it?

[jagabo]

A commercial DVD is likely to have more detail than anything you'll get from VHS tapes. Especially if you don't spend US$500+ for equipment. It's far easier to just pump up the saturation like I did in post #30. You don't need to go that far with the saturation -- I only did so to match the first image you posted.

What do you use to pump up the saturation? I did use a tool in the past to enhance the saturation, but it still looked slightly off. I guess any saturation adjuster in any software would be the same, or would it?

I used AviSynth. But every video editor has that ability. Can also adjust brightness, contrast, hue, etc. if saturation alone doesn't get you what you want.

[cinemakyle01]

A commercial DVD is likely to have more detail than anything you'll get from VHS tapes. Especially if you don't spend US$500+ for equipment. It's far easier to just pump up the saturation like I did in post #30. You don't need to go that far with the saturation -- I only did so to match the first image you posted.

What do you use to pump up the saturation? I did use a tool in the past to enhance the saturation, but it still looked slightly off. I guess any saturation adjuster in any software would be the same, or would it?

I used AviSynth. But every video editor has that ability. Can also adjust brightness, contrast, hue, etc. if saturation alone doesn't get you what you want.

I'll tinker around with those and see what I can get.

[dellsam34]

I am planning on converting tapes for many people and I imagine many may be using composite cables. I want to make sure the converted footage will play properly through any type of cable.

If you are planning to do this for other people especially if you are charging them for it get the right gear, The right workflow is S-VHS VCR with line TBC, an external frame timing correction device if timing errors or audio lip sync develops, a USB/PCIe capture device and software that can capture lossless. De-interlace and encode to h.264. If you are not capable of doing this and prefer to use a combo DVD instead you have to disclose it to the customers that the quality will be bellow average and you are using low end consumer gear.

[jagabo]

And note that S-VHS decks haven't been manufactured for something like 15 years now. Finding one that's in good working condition is hard. And expensive -- around US$500 for a recently reconditioned deck.

Regarding AviSynth... AviSynth is a script based filtering system. Difficult to get started with but very powerful once you know how to use it. I don't remember for certain what I did (it was a month ago) but I think it was just Tweak(sat=3.0).

[dellsam34]

Not just S-VHS, All brand name VCR's stopped being made 20 years ago, All the crap that was sold in stores in the last decade was cheap low budget VCR's that were designed for playback with a TV not to drive a capture card, The last VCR made by Funai was in 2016.

[lordsmurf]

And note that S-VHS decks haven't been manufactured for something like 15 years now. Finding one that's in good working condition is hard. And expensive -- around US$500 for a recently reconditioned deck.

It takes me about a month to refurb a deck. Lots of time goes into reconditioning. Those of us that do it, do it more for the hobby than anything else, a passion for analog video. The money we get from it is often peanuts. The parts are the bulk of costs.

If you are not capable of doing this and prefer to use a combo DVD instead you have to disclose it to the customers that the quality will be bellow average and you are using low end consumer gear.

I've seen this for years. Somebody gets a wild idea to convert videos for "beer money" (or whatever), and quickly learns that it's not a simple process. You need a modest capex to acquire the right gear. Most people give up, and move on to the next hair-brained idea to "make money" (as opposed to providing a good product or service).

[cinemakyle01]

here is a screenshot of the image after tweaking it on my computer. How does this look? I mainly bumped up the saturation. Does this image look fine to everyone? Any suggestions on tweaking the image?

[cinemakyle01]

image

[cinemakyle01]

I think I'd like to check out AVIsynth. Is there a version for Mac?

[jagabo]

here is a screenshot of the image after tweaking it on my computer. How does this look? I mainly bumped up the saturation. Does this image look fine to everyone? Any suggestions on tweaking the image?

I think it's still undersaturated and maybe has a rec.601/rec.709 problem. But there's no reference so I don't know what the colors are supposed to be.

I think I'd like to check out AVIsynth. Is there a version for Mac?

No. But I believe Vapoursynth (with similar video processing abilities) is available for the Mac. And just about every video editor has simple brightness, contrast, hue, and saturation controls.

[cinemakyle01]

I was going to take a picture of the video playing from a TV for a reference, but for some reason, the picture I took from my phone looks different than what is shown on the TV. The photo looks more saturated than what is playing on the TV.

[cinemakyle01]

here is a screenshot of the image after tweaking it on my computer. How does this look? I mainly bumped up the saturation. Does this image look fine to everyone? Any suggestions on tweaking the image?

I think it's still undersaturated and maybe has a rec.601/rec.709 problem. But there's no reference so I don't know what the colors are supposed to be.

I think I'd like to check out AVIsynth. Is there a version for Mac?

No. But I believe Vapoursynth (with similar video processing abilities) is available for the Mac. And just about every video editor has simple brightness, contrast, hue, and saturation controls.

can you link me to the download for Mac?

[jagabo]

I've never used Vapoursynth myself. But a little searching shows:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=175522

And I believe user Selur here has a Mac version of Hybrid (GUI front end) that uses it:

https://forum.selur.net/showthread.php?tid=1279

[cinemakyle01]

Would taking a screenshot of the video unaltered on my laptop work as a reference point to get a better idea on how to enhance it?

[cinemakyle01]

This is the original video converted to a computer file unaltered.

[cinemakyle01]

I think I might have just realized what the problem was when I started this thread. On the Sanyo TV, it was producing a very saturated image, but I just tested the VHS on two other TV's and both are producing a saturation level close to the image above. So, what does that mean for the image quality above?