Closed Caption capture using specific hardware

[thghgv]

I think that I used a DirectShow filter called the "Infinite Pin Tee Filter" to split the output of a pin so I could monitor and capture video at the same time. The "Infinite Pin Tee Filter" is registered in the "qcap.dll" so it should be in all Windows 7 systems.

Have you found a way to get CCextractor to deal with the raw caption data dump from the graphedit filters? I have yet to get CCE to deal with any of that CC data. Captioneer seems to be ok with it, but I would think that CCe should be able to deal with it as well?

[usually_quiet]

I think that I used a DirectShow filter called the "Infinite Pin Tee Filter" to split the output of a pin so I could monitor and capture video at the same time. The "Infinite Pin Tee Filter" is registered in the "qcap.dll" so it should be in all Windows 7 systems.

Have you found a way to get CCextractor to deal with the raw caption data dump from the graphedit filters? I have yet to get CCE to deal with any of that CC data. Captioneer seems to be ok with it, but I would think that CCe should be able to deal with it as well?

When I still had a cable box, I used my old ATI USB TV tuner/SD capture device to record from its composite video output. The software video encoder for the USB ATI device was able to capture CCs in the MPEG-2 video's user data. I used CCExtractor GUI to convert CCs in that format to SRT subtitles. I don't think I ever tried capturing the raw caption data to a file by itself. I'll see if I can do it after my Hauppage USB TV tuner is delivered.

[crazy14muzic]

Last night I tried to extract closed captions with CCExtractor GUI from recordings made with WinTV 8 using my WinTV HVR-2250 TV card's composite video and stereo audio inputs.

This is the same setup I used daily on winxp but never did see closed caption displayed. wintv version 8.0.35159

[thghgv]

When I still had a cable box, I used my old ATI USB TV tuner/SD capture device to record from its composite video output. The software video encoder for the USB ATI device was able to capture CCs in the MPEG-2 video's user data. I used CCExtractor GUI to convert CCs in that format to SRT subtitles. I don't think I ever tried capturing the raw caption data to a file by itself. I'll see if I can do it after my Hauppage USB TV tuner is delivered.

With the newer happuage hardware (like the 955Q) it seems one is limited to using Graphedit to capture the CC information from an analog stream. The WinTV software (from version 7 and up) won't touch ANY CC's unless they are from Digital TV and like sources. The newer hardware does seem capable of dealing with the analog video CC's in their own way.

So as far as this raw CC data is concerned maybe CCextractor just won't deal with it at all then?

[usually_quiet]

So as far as this raw CC data is concerned maybe CCextractor just won't deal with it at all then?

I don't know. CCE's input options include a .bin and a .raw option but I never had a reason to try them or a sample file containing raw CCs captured using the WinTV HVR-950Q/955Q to try them on.

[thghgv]

So as far as this raw CC data is concerned maybe CCextractor just won't deal with it at all then?

I don't know. CCE's input options include a .bin and a .raw option but I never had a reason to try them or a sample file containing raw CCs captured using the WinTV HVR-950Q/955Q to try them on.

I finally got some good converted output to a .SRT sub file from CCExtractor. With proper case, capitalization, color etc... The settings used are posted below...





Also somewhat strange - I did two 1 hour CC captures back to back with the HVR955Q and the final .BIN files both of them appeared to have been corrupted by something. I found this out when I attempted to roll the raw data into .SRT files with BOTH Captioneer AND CCextractor. I later recapped the same content with the HVR-1950 just doing a CC data dump to a file and both captures came out fine.

[thghgv]

So as far as this raw CC data is concerned maybe CCextractor just won't deal with it at all then?

I don't know. CCE's input options include a .bin and a .raw option but I never had a reason to try them or a sample file containing raw CCs captured using the WinTV HVR-950Q/955Q to try them on.

RE: the HVR-955Q -
* I have been successful at simply capturing analog video/audio (albeit low rez compared to my PVR-2+ device) with WinTV-10. Original content signal input to the device via the "external analog inputs" (i.e. the breakout cable)

* I have been successful at tuning in/capturing video/audio (via the coax input) (albeit low rez compared to my PVR-2+ device) with WinTV-10 from a device that will modulate its output to a cable type TV channel.

* Zero success at all capturing OR displaying CC's or subtitles from an ANALOG video source

* Zero success at ALL using this device and it's associated filters with GraphEdit to display analog video

* Limited success at using this device and it's associated filters with GraphEdit to display CC's from analog video. I get captures of raw CC data using the dump filter but the resultant captions are garbled, semi-half there with partial words misspellings etc... Basically unusable.

The HVR-950 and HVR-955 devices are similarly supported on the hauppauge web site and their treatment of these devices on a support level is similar. I have no idea if the 950 when used with GraphEdit will utilize a different set of filters than the 955. I will conclude that for ANYTHING other Digital-TV, QAM TV channel capture (both of which according to HPG support has full CC support), or simple analog A/V capture, the 955 is pretty useless for doing any serious analog Closed Caption work. I cannot speak to the Digital/QAM TV captioning performance as I do not subscribe to or have access to either of those mediums. IF ANYONE here can speak to any of the above points I mentioned as UN-successful please let me know.

The HVR-1950 on the other hand has been OUTSTANDING for doing captions from an analog source. The CC data dumps from this device via Graph, and then decoded to .SRT via CCextractor are EXACT duplicates of the original content caption information. One can then sync these back to the edited content with ease via SubEdit.

[usually_quiet]

So as far as this raw CC data is concerned maybe CCextractor just won't deal with it at all then?

I don't know. CCE's input options include a .bin and a .raw option but I never had a reason to try them or a sample file containing raw CCs captured using the WinTV HVR-950Q/955Q to try them on.

RE: the HVR-955Q -
* I have been successful at simply capturing analog video/audio (albeit low rez compared to my PVR-2+ device) with WinTV-10. Original content signal input to the device via the "external analog inputs" (i.e. the breakout cable)

* I have been successful at tuning in/capturing video/audio (via the coax input) (albeit low rez compared to my PVR-2+ device) with WinTV-10 from a device that will modulate its output to a cable type TV channel.

* Zero success at all capturing OR displaying CC's or subtitles from an ANALOG video source

* Zero success at ALL using this device and it's associated filters with GraphEdit to display analog video

* Limited success at using this device and it's associated filters with GraphEdit to display CC's from analog video. I get captures of raw CC data using the dump filter but the resultant captions are garbled, semi-half there with partial words misspellings etc... Basically unusable.

The HVR-950 and HVR-955 devices are similarly supported on the hauppauge web site and their treatment of these devices on a support level is similar. I have no idea if the 950 when used with GraphEdit will utilize a different set of filters than the 955. I will conclude that for ANYTHING other Digital-TV, QAM TV channel capture (both of which according to HPG support has full CC support), or simple analog A/V capture, the 955 is pretty useless for doing any serious analog Closed Caption work. I cannot speak to the Digital/QAM TV captioning performance as I do not subscribe to or have access to either of those mediums. IF ANYONE here can speak to any of the above points I mentioned as UN-successful please let me know.

The HVR-1950 on the other hand has been OUTSTANDING for doing captions from an analog source. The CC data dumps from this device via Graph, and then decoded to .SRT via CCextractor are EXACT duplicates of the original content caption information. One can then sync these back to the edited content with ease via SubEdit.

Yes, the HVR 950Q/955Q are essentially older and newer versions of the same product and use the same driver downloads and presumably the same DirectShow Filters. Their ATSC/QAM tuner is indeed the only source that is able to provide HD video. Both can only capture low-rez video from their analog connections (analog tuner, S-video, and composite video) because those connections are incapable of delivering anything other than interlaced SD analog video.

I don't yet have the HVR-950Q. I'll try mine out when it arrives to see if I can get better results than you did. It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow via the USPS but as of yesterday, it was still over 1,000 miles away so that prediction may be overly optimistic.

[thghgv]

I don't yet have the HVR-950Q. I'll try mine out when it arrives to see if I can get better results than you did. It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow via the USPS but as of yesterday, it was still over 1,000 miles away so that prediction may be overly optimistic.

Good luck! Post your findings once you have played around with it enough. I would be most interested in seeing if you can get the USB capture filter and the format converter 2 filter to connect to one another.

[usually_quiet]

I don't yet have the HVR-950Q. I'll try mine out when it arrives to see if I can get better results than you did. It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow via the USPS but as of yesterday, it was still over 1,000 miles away so that prediction may be overly optimistic.

Good luck! Post your findings once you have played around with it enough. I would be most interested in seeing if you can get the USB capture filter and the format converter 2 filter to connect to one another.

I have no findings to report yet. I bought a used device that came without software so I tried testing it with third-party software. Nothing worked with it for composite video input so I bought an activation code from Hauppage for WinTV v10 to have the ability to test the device and make sure it isn't broken for analog capture. The activation code they sent me is invalid. According to the installer's error message, it appears to have already been used to activate WinTV v10 for a different device. So, I am waiting to hear from Hauppauge about my activation code issue.

You asked about the meaning of various colors used in GraphStudioNext at one point. I found some answers at the developer site.

GraphStudioNext Connection Colors
---------------------------------
Magenta = Other
Black = Stream
Cyan = Audio
Green = Video
Orange = Subtitle
Purple = Mixed

GraphStudioNext Filter Colors
-----------------------------
Light Gray = Unknown
Light Blue = Standard
Orange = WDM
Green = DMO

[usually_quiet]

I decided to have another go at building filter graphs with GraphStudioNext. I had a little success using the XBar filter and Capture Filter from the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-550Q, plus the VBI Codec Filter (for its CC pin) pin with the Video Mixing Renderer 9 Filter to view video with CC's overlaid on it but I had no success with capturing CCs in a separate file.

Then, I had the idea to try to build a graph with some filters that I had more experience with. I built a filter graph combining the XBar filter and Capture Filter from the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-550Q and the VBI Codec Filter with the ATI MPEG Video Encoder, ATI MPEG Audio Encoder, ATI MPEG Muxer, and ATI File writer from my old Diamond/ATI TV Wonder 600 USB to see what would happen. I was able to get an MPEG2 video file with good CCs stored in the GOP user data. If I can get a graph fully working for both capturing an mpg file containing MPEG-2 video + CCs and a viewer for monitoring, then I'll try to see if I can get the drivers for the Diamond/ATI TV Wonder 600 USB to install in my Windows 7 HTPC without plugging in the device itself.

[pitterbrayn]

If I'm understanding this correctly, with the 955Q, I could simply plug the analog composite video out (non-RF, rca connector) from the SAT, to the video in RCA jack on the 955Q breakout and that would provide a recorded WINTV8.5 file containing the needed MPEG user data? So no need for RF machinations?

[usually_quiet]

If I'm understanding this correctly, with the 955Q, I could simply plug the analog composite video out (non-RF, rca connector) from the SAT, to the video in RCA jack on the 955Q breakout and that would provide a recorded WINTV8.5 file containing the needed MPEG user data? So no need for RF machinations?

No. I wanted to use WinTV to make sure my 950Q was not defective because it did not work with the third party TV viewer software that I tried. You would indeed use the 955Q's composite video connection but you can't use WinTV. Instead, you would need to build a graph with GraphStudioNext that contains a third-party MPEG-2 video software encoder filter that accepts both video input and CC input.

I remembered a VideoHelp forum post made some time ago which indicated that two other Hauppauge TV tuner/analog capture devices that used software encoding could work with encoder filters from my ATI TV Wonder 600 USB and decided I should try it. If the filters can be installed without having an ATI TV Wonder 600 USB, I can provide the installer to you.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to work on the graph since Sunday. At age 101, my mother needs a lot of help and has been keeping me busy.

[thghgv]

If I'm understanding this correctly, with the 955Q, I could simply plug the analog composite video out (non-RF, rca connector) from the SAT, to the video in RCA jack on the 955Q breakout and that would provide a recorded WINTV8.5 file containing the needed MPEG user data? So no need for RF machinations?

According to hauppauge regarding WINTV, composite video & CC data - all wintv versions AFTER WINTV 7.x only have the ability to capture CC data from DIGITAL broadcast streams. Analog CC data capture is NOT supported via WinTV. I have a 955Q and it is a total FAIL re: capturing CCdata from analog video with WINTV 7+. Hauppauge says that winTV version 6 and below had the ability to capture analog video CC data and stored it as another stream inside the capture file. However with that pair (WTV 6 and the 955Q) you run into a version war between the two because the 955Q is brand new and winTV 6 being vintage now has no idea what to do with the 955Q as it predates the hardware device by a few years.

I have tried using graphedit - specifically the filters associated with the 955Q's drivers to display an activemovie monitor and the incoming analog video signal with the captions being decoded in that monitor. Doesn't work with ANY of the native hauppauge "filterage" at all... There are other filters that "MIGHT WORK" which would require installing the supporting software (drivers) for other devices (present or not actually present on the system) that might be able to do the job but I do not have access to anything other than the HPG stuff...

I will say I HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL at ripping the CC data off of the analog output signal of a dish net PVR, but ONLY with an older HPG device that is not made anymore, and NOT using wintv to do it, rather using Graphedit and the associated HPG filters of that older device instead. With the HVR-1950 I am able to use a graphedit filter to monitor and capture the CC information being relayed thru line21 on the composite video signal to a raw data file. Then taking that RAW data and running a conversion on it to .SRT (subtitle format) with CCextractor it's a relatively simple task to sync the SUBtitles to the already edited and processed HD matroska file using SUBedit. Once a syncing pass has been done on the Subtitles, simply MUX them into the finished MKV using NO EXTRA COMPRESSION and all done..

[usually_quiet]

Wednesday night, I had time to work some more on capturing CCs from the 950Q with GraphStudioNext. I was able to successfully capture some .mpg files with video, sound, and good GOP user-data closed captions using the 950Q's composite video and analog stereo audio connections as well as monitor the capture. I haven't been able to capture just the CCs by themselves but CCExtractor GUI can extract CCs in SRT format from the captured video file.

I used the following filters for the capture: The WinTV-950 XBar filter and WinTV-950 Capture filter from the 950Q plus the VBI Codec filter, along with the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB's ATI MPEG Video Encoder filter, ATI MPEG Audio Encoder filter, ATI MPEG Multiplexer filter, and ATI MPEG File Writer filter.

I'll try posting a short sample video when I get the chance.

[thghgv]

I used the following filters for the capture: The WinTV-950 XBar filter and WinTV-950 Capture filter from the 950Q plus the VBI Codec filter, along with the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB's ATI MPEG Video Encoder filter, ATI MPEG Audio Encoder filter, ATI MPEG Multiplexer filter, and ATI MPEG File Writer filter.

So you were you able to run an active-movie monitor of the decoded CC's? I have found that sometimes for whatever reason the CC data can become garbaged up most likely due to shortcomings of the graphedit app itself and the graphedit binary needs to be stopped and restarted.. It's an imperative to be able to monitor what you are capturing in order to prevent writing of bogus CC data (half decoded words, misspelled words, missing dialog, etc...) to file. With the filter set I have I cannot get the 955Q to display anything due to filter pin incompatibilities. I conjure that the ATI filters are what is giving you success in this realm.

Are the ATI drivers able to be installed, and filters used WITHOUT the actual ATI hardware being installed in the system? Looking thru the availability of the driver-ware for the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB it would seem there are no actual WIN7 class drivers available only Vista class.


ATI TV Wonder 600 USB Driver 10.4 Windows Vista(x32/x64)
File Name: 10-4_vista32-64_t600usb_wdm.exe
OS: Windows Vista(x32/x64)
Version: 10.4
File Size: 41.90 Mb
Release Date: 28 Apr 2010

[usually_quiet]

I used the following filters for the capture: The WinTV-950 XBar filter and WinTV-950 Capture filter from the 950Q plus the VBI Codec filter, along with the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB's ATI MPEG Video Encoder filter, ATI MPEG Audio Encoder filter, ATI MPEG Multiplexer filter, and ATI MPEG File Writer filter.

So you were you able to run an active-movie monitor of the decoded CC's? I have found that sometimes for whatever reason the CC data can become garbaged up most likely due to shortcomings of the graphedit app itself and the graphedit binary needs to be stopped and restarted.. It's an imperative to be able to monitor what you are capturing in order to prevent writing of bogus CC data (half decoded words, misspelled words, missing dialog, etc...) to file. With the filter set I have I cannot get the 955Q to display anything due to filter pin incompatibilities. I conjure that the ATI filters are what is giving you success in this realm.

Yes, I was able to run the graph with an active-movie monitor showing both video and CCs, and no ATI filters were in the active monitor filter chain. The graph is shown below. I have "Use Clock" ticked in the "Play" drop-down menu.

[Attachment 56815 - Click to enlarge]

Are the ATI drivers able to be installed, and filters used WITHOUT the actual ATI hardware being installed in the system? Looking thru the availability of the driver-ware for the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB it would seem there are no actual WIN7 class drivers available only Vista class.ATI TV Wonder 600 USB Driver 10.4 Windows Vista(x32/x64)
File Name: 10-4_vista32-64_t600usb_wdm.exe
OS: Windows Vista(x32/x64)
Version: 10.4
File Size: 41.90 Mb
Release Date: 28 Apr 2010

I was working on that driver install this afternoon but I haven't had any luck yet. I had to quit because I can't sit in any chair in that room for long without suffering arthritis pain any more. I can't seem to remember how I installed the drivers in the past. I need to look for some notes I made about installation.

[Edit]I have the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB drivers installed on a Windows 8.1 system and had them installed on a Windows 7 system at one time, so there must be a way to install the Vista drivers. The question of installing them without the device is still unanswered.